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As for the economical benefits, to this day, I still don't understand why more people don't get their cars converted, when the savings are (for me anyway) almost 50%, and my conversion paid for itself in less than a year and 10k miles. Now if Mark could develop a similar system to his Select-a-map to work on my S8... |
Sounds like there is a system to work with FSI from what Mark was saying, just not his!
Liquid injection LPG technology is great for petrol engines. Cool dense charge + higher octane = more power + cheaper to run! I just dont want the hassle of the large tank in my boot. I had LPG in an old Commodore once, it was fiddly, agricultural (both in installation and operation) and robbed half the boot. The modern systems are far better I'm sure, but the government subsidies here arent that great for an $8k+ conversion and I only do 10,000km a year in the old girl, so it would take years to reap any economical benefit. Quote:
So the cooling effect of sub zero LPG expansion prior to combustion isn't sufficient to cool them? You used to get problems with seals drying out and making petrol unreliable in carbys, that's partly why you used to start up and shut down on petrol, and I used to generally run for a day a week on petrol too (freezing converters was another reason for using petrol on start up to running temp - coolant hoses heated the converter) |
I find your last reply on this a bit confusing (confused? ;) ) Reffro.
Firstly, you seem to have conceded the point that they are the biggest selling car (not "truck", or whatever the US call the F-150 types of pick-ups etc, which isn't really relevant in other major territories, or to Tesla) in the US, using US data. You then seem to suggest that the data is simplistic or inaccurate is some way, though it looked to me like it was referencing industry data in the table that I posted. Which is it? Maybe you could clarify to help those of use who (unlike you) don't work with this data daily and sell it to the established ICE car sellers?. Secondly, in your reply you've not disputed or mentioned my comment about Tesla being more profitable than any other manufacturer, yet your original point seemed to at least imply that they couldn't make a profit and were going to fail? - Quote:
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https://www.thebalance.com/auto-indu...rysler-3305670 So, whilst Tesla might have been on shaky ground in the early days (around when I ordered my Model S :eek: ), I think it's hard to argue that this is the case any more. However, the ICE supply chains, including the big manufacturing plants and the retail chains that got fat and lazy over the last decade, are the ones who will really struggle to adapt and should have acted sooner, but were too arrogant to do so. So I hardly think your "swallow analogy" is relevant. Tesla isn't coming, it's here now,and the US is just a preview of what they will also do in Europe and the Far East. Others just aren't ready, and I'm not sure what "primed to arrive" means in practice - only JLR have actually launched a comparable EV, and are struggling with their production, as they haven't sorted out their supply chain: the others are slower and have been much worse at actually making this happen. So to quote this latest Autocar Tesla review: "Any rival wanting to beat the Model 3 is going to have to be very good indeed" https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...yY9ZzeS8dDDnws |
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By the way this is what Porsche did for a great many years, small numbers with huge margins. But Porsche did it without the debt mountain, so didn't need to meet junk bond debt repayments etc etc. Quote:
At the time you ordered your car I could argue Tesla were in a far better financial situation, as they have continued to burn through loans and investors' cash since then. Quote:
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I avoided the use of flash in the pan and went with one swallow instead. Others are struggling, Tesla is still not meeting its own bold projections, remember that people who put a deposit on a Model 3 in the UK were to have started to receive their cars by now.....Reading the website today and understanding how they have made similar promises in the past, you are looking at 2020 before they get here, with no mention of pricing yet. There are still many challenges to be overcome, I'm of the opinion that they are only going to get bigger. |
Oh dear. It looks like you're keen to continue the to'ing and fro'ing on this thread, without really getting the original point of it, which is that Tesla has succeeded in completely changing the game on this, and is also - as a company - succeeding way beyond where 99% of people thought they would get to.
I'm happy that I've dealt with your original point below, and that your comments since then haven't really made any difference to the core point in my original post, and also that I've dealt with those comments too: I could continue this by explaining why margin vs profit isn't a significant difference for Tesla, give details of how Ford downsized to deal with it's strategic errors in the same bailout decade, point out why a RAV4 isn't really relevant to Tesla, or that the Porsche/VW relationship makes the Porsche comparison a bit "apples and pears" ;), or any of your other small points of detail in your last post, but I'm not sure that's going to make any real difference to you (and will probably bore everyone else on here :tuttut: ). I'll just say this to close this - when I ordered my Model S in 2015, the threats to Tesla were existential, not operational, and VAG was talking about investing 20Bn+ in new ICE products. That's completely changed now, there will be fallout from existing ICE manufacturers, Tesla won't be going away, and the car industry is completely changing as a result of them. Maybe if you turn up to our annual meet one year we can continue this discussion over a beer - but I think the automotive world may have moved a long way by then, and you may be driving an EV :ROFL: Quote:
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As for the EV, not going to happen for me and a great many people, now or in the near future, I don't have a house with a driveway, therefore no reliable & convenient way to charge the car. I'll stick with my diseasel leased smoker and fast bike combination for a good while yet. Though given the right circumstances I would consider a move to Plug-in Hybrid or EV driving, but living in a apartment, precludes that being a possibility for me and many others within city environments, who would benefit most from such a move. |
I can lend you a D2 if you want to join us in Cornwall next year :)
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Just for info.. Don't want to kick off the whole ICE v EV debate again please, think we know on here who are evangelistic about EVs and those who are not, and I suspect no amount of debate (factual or otherwise) will change that+++ |
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Funny how time seems to stand still for some of these Tesla killers :D. It looks like a Model S to me, which will have been on sale for 8 (eight!!) years by the time this lookalike arrives. Turning automotive supertankers round seems to take a very long time - 2020 is when the Tesla Roadster will (allegedly...) go on sale. Keep up ICECo's....:rolleyes: |
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Oh and they may keep adding 18 months to their timescales as they know there is little demand yet for EVs and they can continue to make lots of money selling ICE cars :p |
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