Mmi 2g update - optic loop?
 

Hi everyone.

when updating the MMI 2G software/firmware, is it still a wise choice to use an optic loop on the DSP AMP to avoid component protection?

Or, is there a de-select option in the red menu before you hit the start button?

Here is my MMI version.........no laughing at the back!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614464619

I have genuine Audi dealer discs:

4E0 906 961 H - 1 CD.

4L0 998 961 - 3 CD's.

Are these all I need for the 5570 update from my 07.7.0?

I also have an optic loop if needed.

Also, as I don't have a phone in the car, I can skip CD 2 of the 3 set.......yes/no?

Thanks.

Yes you can skip CD2 as it's for the phone/bluetooth. I'm not sure what used to cause the component protection, but I think it was CD2 which would cure itself once you run the disc again

From memory, bose or b&o amps might go into component protection or even get bricked when upgraded, so best to unselect the amp 👍

Yes, thank you Mr Simpson & Paul.

I couldn't reply earlier today as the forum was down (well for me anyway), and I couldn't see your posts, so I just went for it.

I decided to use the optical loop on the DSP amp to avoid the component protection, hopefully.........

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614548467

Started with the 4E0 906 961 H disc.

This was the update list..........

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614548796

What's IDC?

Also, the Nav wasn't included in the update?

Maybe it'll be included in the later discs. No, not there either!

Anyway, that finished and I then ran 1 & 3 of the 3 disc set: 4L0 998 961.

Left number 2 out with not having the phone.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614552272

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614552336

Not sure what the 'S' means?

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614552427

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614552499

And this is what I ended up with............

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614549306

The SW 'VERSION' isn't on the bottom right of the MMI 'car' screen anymore, it's in the 'car' settings now, don't know why.

Took about 1 1/2 hours, but I was so relieved :)

The radio and speakers seem ok, so looks like the optical loop worked then!

Did a VCDS scan and there were some fault codes, but mainly for the loop when I took it out the DSP and put it back again. Also, fault codes for no sound, well there wouldn't be would there, with no amp showing, so just cleared them, and final scan showed they'd been rectified.

I'm just concerned about the Nav though. Why didn't it update with the other stuff? Anyone got an answer for that one?

I had already bought a 2019 - 2020 map DVD:

https://www.satnavishop.co.uk/2018-2...disc-128-p.asp

I swapped it with the old 2004 DVD, but all I got was this........

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614550476

So I put the old one back, which is working fine, though outdated.

Very pleased that the update to 5570 went well, but a bit miffed at the Nav bit.

Many thanks for your help.

My take on the nav is that the older drives seem to have a problem running newer nav upated discs for some reason which may possibly be due to wear or other issues with the nav unit laser. I had the same issue with my 2005 early FL D3 not liking newer nav updates either despite running the updated MMi software. I sent for a couple of chinese laser pickups for the maps drive and didnt get around to changing them yet ut was hoping that might solve the issues +++

Is the new disk by any chance a copy? I have memories of similar issues, I did replace a laser, it was a PITA but it worked.... for a while!

By Nav update, do you mean the maps? 2018 was the last official release so that one you linked will be 2018. There is a thread on here which had the maps on which you can download and burn a copy yourself. I did mine and it's still working over 2 years later. Possibly the old drive doesn't like it. I would send the disc back and get a refund. If you are stuck, I can burn you a copy and post it to you

Oh, right, I didn't know there was a problem with the nav player in these cars.

I just thought the MMI update would update the nav player so you could load a newer map DVD in it, but it's not even selected in the list.......just my way of thinking.

Well, the link to the satnavishop seems to have pretty good feeback, but I presume they are copies. Obviously cheaper, compared to the dealer prices

Messing about with lasers? I wouldn't know what to do I'M afraid :Confused:

Yeah, as my reply above, I really thought the MMI update would enable me to load a newer DVD map disc somehow, and thought it very odd that 'NAV' was in the list, but the update didn't seem to do anything.

You're right about the link, sorry. I meant 2018 - 2019, satnavishop said was the latest one for MMI 2G. He seems a pretty decent bloke and knows his stuff.

I have contacted him about my problem with the DVD map and he said to run a disc cleaner through the player. If that was the case, why is the old DVD disc running ok?

I really don't know what I'm doing with all this 'burning' malarky :o, that's why I got the official, genuine MMI 2G update CD's from the dealer. After psyching myself up and getting all nervous about it I was surprised how smooth it all went.

I wonder what An Audi dealer would say if you bought the latest DVD map disc from them, and then told them it won't work?..........."Bring it in and we'll fix it for free" :ROFL:

Just for interest sake, how much is a dealer DVD map disc anyway?

Anyway, I'll take up your offer of a burned DVD thingy and see if has any better luck. Very kind of you Mr Simpson, thanks! +++

PM imminent.

Well, I tried the burned nav disc that Mr Simpson kindly sent me........very nice people on here eh :)

Unfortunately, it didn't work :-(

Just got the same 'Check navigation DVD' message on the screen.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614883878

Put the old DVD back in and everything's fine again.

One thing I noticed, on a VCDS scan, it's the only module that doesn't have a coding. Not sure what that means?

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 887 D HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 0550
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 2E05097BDC17BBEBD1E-807A

No fault code found.

Out of interest, here's the nav player unit details:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1614883973

What to do next I wonder.

I wonder if an Audi dealer DVD will work?

And how much are they anyway?

Thank you again Mr Simpson, at least you tried.

No worries Echo, it was worth a try for the sake of a DVD.

Original discs are pressed not burned and so have more pronounced dips and peaks so even old lasers can pick them up. Sometimes it helps when burning at slower speed as more time is spent for each bit and some drives or media can produce better results.

Interesting and good to know, thanks.

I still don't understand why the software/firmware update to 5570 didn't include the nav player.

Or is that a separate thing altogether.

In other words, does a new updated map DVD have it's own software to update the nav player?

Does that even make sense? :Confused :Confused: :)

Yes, that is exactly what happens.

Also the Nav unit uses Adaptation Channels to set its parameters, rather than using a coding value like other modules. Hence no coding.

You can do a DVD read test by using Channel 065 and value 2 for short test, value 1 for a long test.

Riiiight, thanks Matty.

So the 5570 update was correct in omitting the nav player then?

And, does that mean unofficial discs sometimes don't work because they are burned (instead of pressed), and don't get the proper info for the nav player to recognise it, as Ainarsemms mentioned?

What does a 'read test' do?

Sorry, with technical stuff like this, you have to explain it to me in dummy language :o

Burned discs will contain the same info it's just that old weak(ish) lasers cannot read them reliably.

I might not be 100% corect but original discs are pressed with template to create dips and peaks, then covered with relective layer. When you burn recordable or rewritable discs they are already coated and you create dips and peaks afterwards.

Ok, thank you for that, I think I understand...........I think :)

So, even though it can still read the old original DVD, the nav player is getting a bit iffy.

Does the DVD in the nav player spin continuously when the ignition is turned on? Or does it only start spinning when you select the nav button on the MMI? If it's continuously, no wonder it's getting a bit narky in it's old age!

It seems the only option is to try a genuine dealer DVD, or change the nav player for a newer one.

I'll report back if/when I get it sorted.

Many thanks for everyone's help.

This seller reckons his are genuine. Even though he states no returns, if it doesn't work eBay will refund you

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2018-AUDI...cAAOSwqoRbOVpJ

Yeah, thanks for that, been looking myself.

At 19 quid though, it's got to be a copy.

Just for interest sake, I rang the local Audi dealer. The 2018 release is the final disc for MMI 2G, no more updates in future, and only £216, bargain! :)

Seeing as it's already out of date, you'd think they'd flog 'em off a bit cheaper than that eh.

I'm still on the case............

Ok, so I tried a genuine 2018 dealer disc (used), and get the same 'check nav DVD' error on the screen.

So that's 3 map discs now tested and all failed.

Must be a fault in the nav player itself then, even though the original (2004) map DVD is working fine.

There are a few online with the same part numbers.

The question is:

Is it a straight swap for my old one?............plug & play that is, because there's no coding for it:

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 887 D HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 0550
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 2E05097BDC17BBEBD1E-807A

No fault code found.

Will the MMI recognise it without any problems?

AND, will fitting a different nav player cause a component protection error?

Then again, a replacement nav player of the same'ish year might have a lazy laser as well.

Come on you clever A8 people :)

Perhaps worth cleaning the laser on your current device as a first step, a cleaning disc won't work but open it up and use some isopropyl alcohol on the lens with a cotton bud is a cheap potential fix?

If you buy a used device, bear in mind it maybe the same issue sooner or later also?

I never used built in satnav anyway, maps and traffic on phone always more up to date and easier to enter destinations.

Yes, I understand but, if the nav player is reading the original disc ok that's in it now, how could could the laser be dirty?

I don't get it.

Can't get stuff like that on my old Nokia :o

iirc there is no coding on Nav, its a straight swap over.

No component protection either I believe, which is odd as it was one of the more valuable components at the time.

The Nav units are the same in A6/Q7/A8 so plenty around to go at, and 2G was still being made into 2010 so its not hard to get a newer one than yours.

Ok thanks IT.

The quest continues............:)

If it was marginal it may be that it is struggling with the initial update, which it won't need from the old disk. I had the same issue on my D3 when it was about 5 years old, which was 10 years ago, and cleaning the laser kicked it down the road, replacing the head made it better, but it still struggled with some (copied) discs intermittently!

Back then a new drive was £££ even used, so a swap may make more sense now +++

Yes, I suppose that might be what the problem is then.

'Replace the head', what does that entail?

As Matty says: "You can do a DVD read test by using Channel 065 and value 2 for short test, value 1 for a long test"...........what will that tell me?

According to Realoem, a new unit is still £squillions! So it would have to be a used one, running the risk of that having the same problem, and maybe, just maybe CP thrown in.

It's like Russian Roulette :(

Update on the nav problem.

So, having tried and failed with a genuine 2018 Audi dealer map DVD, kindly provided by our sponsors, the fault has to be within the nav player then.

New Audi dealer nav player = £Loads!

Getting another used nav player to try will probably just bring up the same problem.

Change the laser? A bit too intricate for me I'm afraid, need something simpler.

Hmmm, lets try something else. DVD M2 5.6, bottom of page 2 in Audi mechanism here:

https://www.lasertrader.de/english/

Change the whole inside mechanism for a new one? Ok, we'll try that. £197 delivered from Germany. Arrived safely six days later. They do lasers as well I think.

For those of you who haven't opened the nav player before (including me), here we go...............

Locate the nav player :D

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617711685

Best to take the nav out to get to the cables.

Slightly loosen this 10mm bolt. Nav carrier slides into it:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617711761

Take this 10mm nut off and remove the nav carrier:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617711826

Remove the cables:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714857

I didn't have the fancy radio extraction tools, so just used a pair of tweezers to shove in the slots and pull the nav out of the carrier just enough to see the red retaining spring thing:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617711960

With a biggish flat screwy, push the red spring in on both sides and pull the nav all the way out of the carrier:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712033

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712091

With the same flat screwy, place it in the slot and twist the nav case lid up. Same with the other slot. Comes up easy enough:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712183

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712246

Remove the lid:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712329

Remove 4 little screws with a tiny star head bit, T8 I think. One on each corner:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712436

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712493

Lift the mechanism out and flip it over, careful with the ribbons:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712558

Remove the 3 ribbons:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712629

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712730

Line up the new mechanism:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712797

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712856

Insert the 3 ribbons back in the same place:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617712928

Flip the mechanism back over and fit it back in the nav case, careful with the ribbons again. Put the 4 little screws back, then fit the lid back on:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713000

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713074

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713261

Slide the nav back in the carrier. Reconnect the cables, then secure the nav player in it's cosy little home.

Okaaay, time to test it!

Latest (final release for MMI 2G), DVD in the slot:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713436

Nooooooooooo! :mad:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713719

Right, try the old 2004 DVD:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617713839

Well this works ok:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714003

So, I tried the 2018 DVD again, but still got the same 'check nav DVD' message on the screen. I kept changing the old and new DVD's over until the mechanism eventually recognised the 2018 DVD and then started loading up!:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714106

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714171

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714236

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714290

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714348

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1617714407

At last, she lives! :love:

There are some scratches on the DVD, maybe this had something to do with it, dunno?

Old mechanism:

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 887 D HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 0550
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 2E05097BDC17BBEBD1E-807A

No fault code found.

New mechanism:

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 888 P HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 1060
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 3B23302F1F655E439A1-806E

No fault code found.

Note: the 'SW' number has changed.

I was worried about component protection. I asked Ralf at Gerner, before he sent the mechanism, and he reckons:

".........the Audi component protection begins with MMI 3G".

Not sure, I wouldn't know, but there was no CP.

A heart sinking moment came later on. I switched the engine on, and got this:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1616519135

After a bit of investigation in the boot, I realised what the problem was. I must have pushed the left boot equipment cover too hard when fitting it back and it had touched the front of the nav player and the eject button. The DVD was trying to get out! :o

Aaaaanyway, it all seems to be working ok with the latest, albeit final, maps, which was the whole point of the mission.

Expensive? Maybe, well it is an A8, and an old one at that, but she deserves a bit of mollycodling :)

And finally.

As much as I'm pleased with the sat nav map update, I'm a bit miffed to see the new Mersey bridge doesn't exist on the map:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1616519858

Seeing as it was opened on 14th October 2017, I thought a 2018 map would include it, apparently not.

So, I'll never be able to see the Mersey Gateway on my sat nav. Oh well, I've been used to driving over the water with the old map anyway :D

Many thanks to all of you for your help +++

Glad you finally sorted it! Hats off for giving it a go, it paid off and you have the latest maps available.

Bit of a palaver, but got there in the end :)

Good effort there...!!!

Thanks 89 :)

As late MMI2G OEM maps are not avail in this country (Australia) I simply went for Carplay and sidestepped the constant update DVD issue.

Sorry; only just read this today. [I've got a D4 now].

The answer's simple although probably already deduced :ROFL:

The Navigation firmware is on the Navigation DVD and not on the MMI update CDs. If you swap an old DVD back in the Navigation drive and run a VCDS, you'll see the firmware level of the unit is backleveled ...

Julian

Old mechanism:

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 887 D HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 0550 [Firmware level]
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 2E05097BDC17BBEBD1E-807A

No fault code found.

New mechanism:

Address 37: Navigation Labels: 4E0-910-88x-37.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 888 P HW: 4E0 919 887 C
Component: MNS ECE H43 1060 [Firmware Level]
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 353EJ047522731
Shop #: WSC 02313 785 00200
VCID: 3B23302F1F655E439A1-806E

No fault code found.

Yes, thanks Julian, sort of figured it out in the end +++

Wish I'd have known that before I started though :Confused: :D

Hi Julian
How are you keeping buddy? Pray health is good.+++