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-   -   What's in the workshop this week? Jim's black Final Edition (https://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14858)

MikkiJayne 30th March 2019 09:19 PM

What's in the workshop this week? Jim's black Final Edition
 
10 Attachment(s)
Its that time again :) Jim (The Laird) brought his spotless black FE down for new cam tensioners as they are rattling on start up. I'm going to pull the engine and re-seal everything as it has a few leaks, plus a general tidy up and fettling in the engine bay as it's on 180K miles now.

Here's Jim's (left) next to Stephen's (What was in the workshop last week) before it came in to the workshop:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

First job on Thursday was to remove the bumper and headlights in preparation for pulling the front end. I left the front panel in place as I needed to move the car off the lift on Friday, but then got back on it today

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

A small pile of bits starting

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

>> to today:

Split front snubber mount - that's pretty standard so I keep them in stock.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

So this is how its going to be then? :rolleyes: Two snapped bolts taking the front panel off :( I'll deal with these later.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

One of the oil cooler bolts in the rad too. This is going to be fun http://www.corradov8.com/pics/banghead.gif I can see a special tool in my future...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

A bit grubby under here after 180K miles

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553983807

We can fix that +++

MikkiJayne 30th March 2019 09:27 PM

13 Attachment(s)
Ick - the traditional D2 oil leaks...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Definitely due a timing belt - this gap is 5mm with a new belt:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Everything on the top disconnected:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

The standard broken junction box. I keep those in stock too :)

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Ready to come out:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Lift the car off the top:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Pick it up with the crane and remove the trolley

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Put it to one side for tomorrow. I need to park 2 more D2s in the workshop overnight so Jim's has top bunk on the lift.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Ready to mount to the separating table tomorrow

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

Up in the air while I do the engine

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1553984415

RS6 30th March 2019 09:33 PM

Amazing work +++ that will be one happy owner when its returned!

steamship 30th March 2019 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149207)
Its that time again :) Jim (The Laird) brought his spotless black FE down for new cam tensioners as they are rattling on start up.

Is this the 'death rattle' on the D2s that has been mentioned over the years?

MikkiJayne 31st March 2019 08:21 AM

Yeah that's it. The chain tensioners use oil pressure to keep the chain tight between the two camshafts on each head. As they wear inside (I think its o-rings) they develop a tendancy to leak away residual oil pressure while the engine isn't running and they lose their push on the chain so it gets loose. When the engine starts again, the inlet cam is pulled so far by the driven exhaust cam, but then when it gets over-centre on a lobe it jumps forward, pushed by the valve springs. It then pulls the chain tight and slaps it on the tensioner pad - that's the noise that makes the rattle. After a few rotations of the engine there is enough oil pressure to tighten the chain and it stops making the noise.

It starts with rattle on cold start, but Jim's had got to the point where it would rattle on hot-start too so the tensioners are losing pressure quite quickly so need changing asap since the slap of the chain obviously doesn't help the life of the plastic pads.

I've tried changing the oil retention valves which keep oil in the heads on shutdown but they have no effect. Its oil pressure leaking past the piston in the tensioner that is the problem.

I did have an idea about using a thing called an 'Accusump' which is basically an oil pressure accumulator used on race cars. This would collect oil under pressure while the engine is running, store it while it's off, and then release it all when the key is turned. Theoretically this would put pressure in to the tensioners before the engine fires and therefore stop the slap. This would be cheaper than replacing the tensioners (£576 each!!), but wouldn't actually fix the problem of the tensioners bleeding off oil pressure. I think it might actually mask it such that you wouldn't know there was an issue until they bleed so much pressure that the engine has an oil pressure problem.

I did see someone post on FB about rebuilding the tensioners with new o-rings which is worth investigating. I can't see how they come apart in a fashion where they can be put back together but I have some dead ones which I can cut in half. At some point we're going to run out of new ones so we need to find a solution of some sort!

steamship 31st March 2019 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149215)
It then pulls the chain tight and slaps it on the tensioner pad - that's the noise that makes the rattle. After a few rotations of the engine there is enough oil pressure to tighten the chain and it stops making the noise.

A brilliant explanation that even I can understand from a non-mechanic mind. +++

One more question before getting back on topic with Jim's car. I'm assuming this is why the tensioner pads wear excessively, and why you replace them (although it doesn't resolve the underlying issue)?

MikkiJayne 31st March 2019 10:21 AM

The tensioner pads wear simply because they're made of plastic and are pressing against a steel chain running over them at considerable speed. It's designed obsolescence - almost all of them made it through their ten year warranty and they're now exceeding their 15-year expected lifespan. Audi don't care if they all explode at this point.

The pads are made of nylon 4.6. If they wanted them to last longer, they could have used a different material like UHMW polyethylene, Acetal, even PTFE, and provided an oil feed to the wear surface to further reduce friction. This would have been more expensive though. Nylon 4.6 lasts longer than the warranty so it will do.

Once the pads are sufficiently worn, they crack and fall apart whereupon the engine shreds itself. A loose chain slapping on worn pads makes them more likely to shatter, but is not the cause of the wear in the first place.

I replace the pads on non-rattly tensioners to avoid them shattering, but the tensioners will still wear out eventually.

moltuae 31st March 2019 12:15 PM

Great work MJ +++

Good to see my car's twin getting some attention :)

I need to arrange to get mine down to you some time in the near future for a bit of TLC and a few relatively minor jobs, but mainly for the tensioner pads, even though I have no start-up rattle .... yet! (130K miles). In my ten years of ownership I have always changed the oil far more frequently than is necessary though ... I mean obsessively frequently. Whenever it goes into the garage for anything, I usually ask them to drop the oil again. So sometimes it'll get 3 or more oil changes in a year, even though I'm averaging at just 5K-6K miles annually. I wonder if that's helped the tensioner seals to last a bit longer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149215)
At some point we're going to run out of new ones so we need to find a solution of some sort!

If there's any risk that new ones are going to become NLA, please order some for mine. I'll pay you in advance for them.

tonupkid 31st March 2019 12:52 PM

Great to see how you are turning back the clock (metaphorically) on Jim's car MJ. Excellent tread.
Jim, I bet you're looking forward to getting back into it again. I know I would be.

MikkiJayne 31st March 2019 03:17 PM

Mark, I just checked if they fit anything else and they are also used in the D3 so we should have supply for another 5 years in theory.

moltuae 31st March 2019 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149224)
Mark, I just checked if they fit anything else and they are also used in the D3 so we should have supply for another 5 years in theory.

Great +++ That's good to know.

The_Laird 31st March 2019 06:16 PM

After my bad experiences of the local Audi indy people in my (relatively) new neck of the woods, it is wonderfully reassuring to have my car in MJ’s capable hands. Well worth the 4 hour drive and a couple of weeks or so without a car. And reading a ‘what’s in the workshop’ write up on your own car is brillaintly exciting!

MJ made me very welcome and we did a reccy with the car on the lift, so there are a couple of other jobs to be done as a result. And I’ll be back at a later date for a rear subframe rebuild.

And as an added bonus, I had a short trip in MJ’s car when she gave me a lift to a services to meet up with a friend for a lift home. Even from the passenger seat, you can tell how ‘tight’ MJ’s car is - it’s like a brand new car (which it pretty much is!). And the interior is a beautiful place to be - the red leather and black trim is a very pleasing combination.

I can’t wait for the next post - thanks MJ! :)

MikkiJayne 31st March 2019 08:30 PM

2 Attachment(s)
This morning's activities:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554064154

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554064154

MikkiJayne 31st March 2019 09:12 PM

13 Attachment(s)
This afternoon was spent removing engine parts and prepping it for cleaning

I think this is where most of the gunge on the lower half of the engine came from

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

Attached to the bracket for the engine stand

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

On the stand

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

Locking tools in

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

Started taking the timing gear off. This is a new one :rolleyes: This is the tensioner roller and you can just see that there is a threaded insert stuck on the bolt. The threaded insert should have stayed in the engine but it appears the thread of the bolt is a bit mashed so it took the insert out with it. This is going to be 'interesting' to repair...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

Whoever gorrilla'd the tensioner bolt apparently attacked the cam sprockets with a lump hammer too :tuttut:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

Drained the remaining coolant from the block. Its a good sign that both drains are clear. Oil cooler drain first

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

passenger side drain - this drain is almost always blocked, but on this engine it runs free :)

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

The vac hoses are completely perished so I'll replace those

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

I left the oil draining overnight, ready for tomorrow

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554066018

MikkiJayne 1st April 2019 08:40 PM

16 Attachment(s)
4 hours of cleaning... :eek3:

I pulled the oil cooler housing off. The plastic pipe had already cracked. That's getting replaced with an aluminium one.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

Yeuch

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

I really don't know why these engines collect sand between the inlet manifold and the head. They all have it, and one has to be extremely careful when taking the manifold off to not get any down the inlet ports

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

Flange cleaned up and the inlet ports protected

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

There was evidence of coolant leakage down the back of the block so I pulled the water pipes off the back of the heads. Just as well I did since one o-ring had turned to fluff and the other was already leaking.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

Cleaned up the valley

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

Breather cover removed - the gasket on this is the source of all the gunge in the valley and also all the oil down the back of the block. There's a little drain hole on the left of the pic where everything that leaks from here escapes down in to the bellhousing :rolleyes:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

More grub

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

2 gallons of degreaser later...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554150670

MikkiJayne 1st April 2019 08:47 PM

7 Attachment(s)
So, this threaded insert for the tensioner roller...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

I sacrificed a 10mm socket to make a tool to remove the insert from the thread

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

It fits like this

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

The insert came off with a little persuasion

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

Whoever fitted the last belt didn't bother to clean the schmutz out of the thread. They just gorilla'd the bolt in and it got stuck. There's actually no damage to the thread - it just needed cleaning :rolleyes:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

Made an assembly tool to put it back in the block. It will be held in with Loctite 638 retaining compound

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

Screwed in to the block and permanently bonded with Loctite.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554151280

The_Laird 2nd April 2019 09:40 AM

Let’s name and shame, shall we? The “gorillas” who did the last belt change were from AudiTechnik in Glasgow. Thanks guys!

tonupkid 2nd April 2019 08:54 PM

There's something compellingly voyeuristic in these threads :D

MikkiJayne 2nd April 2019 09:54 PM

20 Attachment(s)
Chain tensioners.

Since the engine is on the stand I can rotate it 45° so the head is level. This makes the tensioner swap an order of magnitude easier than doing it in the car with the head at 45°.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Not quite so spotless inside as Stephens! This is fairly normal for a 185K mile engine.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Removed the first set of cam caps. The bottom left one is removed even though the cam doesn't come out, since this leaves space to swing the tensioner out.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

The cam journals are in perfect condition, despite the gunge

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Bizarrely, even though the tensioners rattle on startup, the pads in this one are barely worn :Confused:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

The new tensioner in its box. There really ought to be an angelic choir or fanfare opening this up :ROFL:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Ta dah!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

The passenger side cam is a pain because the roller lifters push it off to one side as it's tightened down

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

This is the culprit

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Rather than just using the two main caps to pull it down in to the head, I use all four, plus a technique I've developed which I can't photograph with only two arms!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Back in place

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

It goes back in with the timing marks slightly off as the lifter pushes it out of position while the tensioner is compressed with its locking tool

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

I mark each bolt as I torque it up. 5Nm then 90°, so two marks on each bolt.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

New oil seals

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

A genuine VW special tool 3366! This compresses the tensioner so it can be removed or inserted

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

With the tensioner locking tool removed the spring pressure pulls the chain tight which pops the cam back in line

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

Cover cleaned up and back on with a new gasket

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554241009

The driver's side is exactly the same procedure but much easier as it isn't trying to open any valves so it just drops back in place.

moltuae 3rd April 2019 07:42 AM

Fascinating stuff! +++

I notice the new pads are a different colour to the old ones; are they made of a different material or is that just how they look when they are clean!?

MikkiJayne 3rd April 2019 07:58 AM

That's just how they are when they are new :) Same material as far as I can tell, but younger and less brittle obviously. The aftermarket pads are slightly more brown than the new genuine ones but seem to be also the same material.

The old pads in Stephen's are exactly the same colour so I think its more to do with the material ageing than picking up dirt from the oil.

The_Laird 3rd April 2019 09:11 AM

It’s starting to go back together again. How exciting! :p

Were the old tensioners visibly knackered, or can’t you really tell - apart from the rattle?

MikkiJayne 3rd April 2019 10:35 AM

There are no visual clues which ones rattle and which ones don't unfortunately.

I have discovered something interesting though - there is a tiny wire gauze in the oil feed to the tensioner to stop debris getting in. Odd, since the oil filter is much finer, but they do trap debris so they obviously have a purpose. On many of the tensioners I remove, this gauze is either broken or missing, which means it has gone through the tensioner! Now debris or not, a small chunk of stainless wire going through something containing rubber o-rings is not going to do it a lot of good! I have a theory that when this gauze disintegrates, this is what causes the tensioner to start rattling since it trashes the o-rings. On that basis, they may well be better off without the gauze and just take the tiny amount of debris that turns up. I will build an engine up like this in the summer and see what it does long term.

Curiously, this is a known issue with the W engines, except in those the gauze apparently ruins the tensioner rather than just making them rattle. It's a $10K job for the W8 Passat at dealer rates! :eek2:

Another job for the summer is to build some sort of test rig for the tensioners. I plan to saw the end off one of my trashed heads and just use a couple of cam lobes and a tensioner to see if I can test good/bad/indifferent. That will also be useful if I can figure out how to rebuild them too.

MikkiJayne 4th April 2019 09:04 PM

12 Attachment(s)
These are the two old tensioners. Note the broken gauze on the right hand one. I wonder if it was only this one rattling because it's eaten some stainless steel wire? I might put the left one in another engine and see what happens.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

Last nights update a little late:

The temperature sensor is totally rusted in to its socket. With overheating issues we're changing this as a precaution, plus with it seized in like this it would be a nightmare to change later on with the engine back in.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

It has to be destroyed to get it out

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

The o-ring was totally perished and crusty so just as well we're changing it

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

Socket cleaned up ready for the new sensor

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

Water pipes back on the engine

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

This is my tool for fitting the crankshaft seal. Its a piece of exhaust tube that fits perfectly inside the old seal so it can be used as a drift to push the new seal in.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

The bushing that drives the oil pump is swapped back to front when fitting a new seal so that the seal lip has fresh steel to run on. After 185K miles the rubber seal has worn a noticeable groove in the steel bushing

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

Timing gear all back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554411300

MikkiJayne 4th April 2019 09:30 PM

14 Attachment(s)
Tonight's progress:

I don't know why people say the oil cooler pipe is really difficult. Just turn the engine on it's side :ROFL: The aluminium cooler pipe is fitted to the block here

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

This is the old plastic pipe - split at both o-ring grooves so the o-rings were stopping it leaking for now

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Oil cooler housing back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

I removed and cleaned the oil pump pickup gauze but forgot to take a before pic! It had a few chunks of carbon debris and old silicone sealer in it so I cleaned those out and put it back together

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Not many people get to see their engine like this :D Its so much easier to do the sump like this though!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Cleaning old silicone out of all the bolt holes is most vexing!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Sealing flange all cleaned up

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Sealant applied

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Bolts torqued and a nice even-ish bead of sealant all round the sump

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

This damn oil sensor! This was leaking because the seal (missing from the pic sorry) was perished but you can't buy the seal on its own - you have to buy a new sensor for £loads :mad: Luckily I had a duff sensor with a good seal in left over from the sump I got from A8parts for Stephen's car so swapped the seal over and put the good sensor back in +++

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

I subconsciously registered that there was something odd about the oil filter housing when I took it off, but only twigged what it was when I went to put it back. Jim's on the left, a spare of mine on the right. The support structure for the filter is missing! Its not in the old filter which means at some point in the past someone has managed to snap it off when removing the filter and 'not noticed' :tuttut: I sense another call to Maria in my future...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

One thing that really annoys me about these cartridge filters is that its impossible to fill the filter with oil when changing it. This means on restart the engine is starved of oil pressure for a moment while the pump fills the filter.

With the engine upside-down I can pre-fill the filter, so I do :p

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

Back together with my spare filter housing which I shall replace with one from A8parts

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554412281

It'll stay upside down overnight to allow the sump sealer to set completely before refilling with oil.

Nognar 5th April 2019 02:38 PM

Love that, great work.

Mine at 197,000 probably needs the D2 Doctor Platinum service in the near future.

MikkiJayne 5th April 2019 08:56 PM

10 Attachment(s)
The 'valley pan' gasket has been bugging me a while - it's responsible for all the oil under the inlet manifold, but has been on back order. Luckily, it arrived this morning :)

This is the old one - no re-using that!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

New one in place

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

Cover on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

The knock sensor plugs disintegrated as I removed them, which is a very common problem.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

New Bosch sensor in place, hiding under the inlet manifold

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

The other one is easier to get to

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

The viscous fan bearing was worn out and very noisy. £loads for a new one and also on back order, but luckily I had a low mileage used one in stock

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

Removing the engine from the stand since I don't need to turn it over any more

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

and back on the separating table so I can get to the crank main seal, then it can be reattached to the gearbox

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554497253

moltuae 6th April 2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149390)
New Bosch sensor in place, hiding under the inlet manifold

Ah, so that's where it lives!

I had one fail a few months ago. Fortunately it was the other one, which is much easier to get to, but I bought two new ones and asked the garage to replace both. They replaced the faulty one but decided to leave the other one because they couldn't find it. We guessed that it might be under the inlet manifold but I couldn't find any info or photos confirming it.

David's8 6th April 2019 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Laird (Post 149266)
Let’s name and shame, shall we? The “gorillas” who did the last belt change were from AudiTechnik in Glasgow. Thanks guys!

That'll be the same crowd whom you got to change the belt on my car when you owned it and didnt change all the pulleys/tensioners and didnt use "genuine Audi parts" as they specify in the adverts.......... :tuttut:

Fantastic and informative thread MJ +++
At 115k I think that mine needs a thorough look at in the next year.

ainarssems 6th April 2019 03:20 PM

Quote:

The viscous fan bearing was worn out and very noisy. £loads for a new one and also on back order, but luckily I had a low mileage used one in stock
Have you looked into changing bearing(s) for it? Mine is noisy as well, not sure if PF and FL is the same. New ones from dealer too much money and I don't think there are any aftermarket alternatives.

MikkiJayne 6th April 2019 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David's8 (Post 149403)
That'll be the same crowd whom you got to change the belt on my car when you owned it and didnt change all the pulleys/tensioners and didnt use "genuine Audi parts" as they specify in the adverts.......... :tuttut:

Fantastic and informative thread MJ +++
At 115k I think that mine needs a thorough look at in the next year.

None of the timing gear I've taken off was genuine, including the water pump. It now has genuine water pump and thermostat and INA belt kit +++

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainarssems (Post 149404)
Have you looked into changing bearing(s) for it? Mine is noisy as well, not sure if PF and FL is the same. New ones from dealer too much money and I don't think there are any aftermarket alternatives.

Funny you should mention that :D You can't change the bearing in the original as it the outer race is also the mounting flange, but in searching for a replacement for Jim's car I did find a nasty Chinese copy listed under Audi 100 and V8. That is a machined flange with a separate (nasty Chinese) pressed-in bearing. A proper SKF bearing in the same size is about £50 (double-row ball bearing with rubber seals) so theoretically its possible to produce one which will probably outlast the car for about £65 plus an hour or so tinkering :cool:

I'll post up some pics and links later. The PF is the same part.

Goran 6th April 2019 04:04 PM

Also I believe nylon pads get brittle with age in a hot engine oil environment. There are newer type nylons such as Stanyl 46 or Stanyl Diablo which last longer before getting brittle in engine oil. I asked a couple of companies how much it would cost to make a copy of our pads in one of these newer nylons but their minimum order is something like 10,000 units :ROFL:
Another option could be to have replica pads machined out of a block of one of these new nylons, but machining costs are not cheap either.

If there is a way to repair old tensioner units that would be amazing. Over £1000 for a pair of new units is a bit much.

The_Laird 6th April 2019 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David's8 (Post 149403)
That'll be the same crowd whom you got to change the belt on my car when you owned it and didnt change all the pulleys/tensioners and didnt use "genuine Audi parts" as they specify in the adverts.......... :tuttut:

I think that was A4Audi in Clydebank, not AudiTechnik

The_Laird 6th April 2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149405)
None of the timing gear I've taken off was genuine, including the water pump. It now has genuine water pump and thermostat and INA belt kit +++

So that’s the two main Audi Independents in the Glasgow area that ‘cheat’ on the parts. :(

I am so chuffed to have MJ working on my car! +++

Goran 7th April 2019 08:08 AM

Great thread as always +++

I am building a list in my head of all the parts that will need changing preventatively because they are probably already in a bad state.

MikkiJayne 8th April 2019 02:40 PM

The weekend was a complete shambles because of three tiny little bolts to attach the torque converter which stubbornly remained on TPS's shelf instead of coming to the workshop http://www.corradov8.com/pics/banghead.gif

I also ran out of degreaser on Saturday so there was nothing more I could do at that point.

Now I have those little bolts, and more degreaser so I can make some more progress +++

homer simpson 8th April 2019 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 149481)
The weekend was a complete shambles because of three tiny little bolts to attach the torque converter which stubbornly remained on TPS's shelf instead of coming to the workshop http://www.corradov8.com/pics/banghead.gif

I also ran out of degreaser on Saturday so there was nothing more I could do at that point.

Now I have those little bolts, and more degreaser so I can make some more progress +++

Epic thread as always MJ!

It's always the smallest things that cause the biggest headaches :ROFL:

ainarssems 8th April 2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Funny you should mention that You can't change the bearing in the original as it the outer race is also the mounting flange, but in searching for a replacement for Jim's car I did find a nasty Chinese copy listed under Audi 100 and V8. That is a machined flange with a separate (nasty Chinese) pressed-in bearing. A proper SKF bearing in the same size is about £50 (double-row ball bearing with rubber seals) so theoretically its possible to produce one which will probably outlast the car for about £65 plus an hour or so tinkering

I'll post up some pics and links later. The PF is the same part.
A link to Chinese part would be great.

I would be tempted to give it a go, considering that original part can last close to 200k miles, 20 years, Chinese should be good for 10k doing 2k per year. If the bearing fails than it can be changed for a better one. It's not a safety critical part like tyres or brakes or even wheel bearing. And not too much work involved changing it if doing myself.

MikkiJayne 8th April 2019 08:39 PM

3 Attachment(s)
This is the fan bearing as it comes from Audi:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554755500

The hub can be pressed out, but the bearing housing and flange are one single piece:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554755500

This is £13, ebay listing here

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554755500

Its listed as Audi 100 & VW LT, but the part number is in the description which is how I found it. With this one the flange and bearing are separate so the bearing can be changed.The holes are a bit off-centre, but they're close enough for it to bolt in to the bracket. No idea how long the cheap Chinesium bearing would last, but I guess for low-mileage D2s it may well be acceptable for 1/20th of the price of a genuine one!

I may well buy a few and a few SKF bearings to go with them, then I have good ones ready to go if needed +++

MikkiJayne 8th April 2019 09:09 PM

17 Attachment(s)
Some work from the weekend - fitting the new crank rear main seal. The end of the crank was pretty crusty

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Cleaned it up with a wire brush in the dremel

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

The new seal comes with an interesting plastic sleeve which fits over the end of the crank to allow the seal to slide on without damaging it, similar to what I do with the plastic bag for the CV boot

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Push the seal in thus, then pull the plastic sleeve out

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Drive plate back on with new bolts

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Roll the engine and gearbox back together. With the machine, I can literally pop them together with finger and thumb :cool:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Its at this point I got stuck because the bolts to attach the torque converter were still sitting on the shelf at TPS http://www.corradov8.com/pics/banghead.gif

I managed a couple more jobs. Ready for the inlet manifold, but I forgot to take a pic of the manifold back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

The header tank hose is a little worse for wear.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Unfortunately we can't get these any more so mitigation is the only option. I covered it in some high-temperature heat-shrink sleeving. I'll form this to shape better when its installed. The sleeving shrinks at 200+ degrees so it's quite happy at coolant temperatures, and it will protect the hose from any more damage.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

The rest of the coolant hoses installed

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

And now today's work. The missing bolts arrived this morning. You can see why I got stuck without them!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Torque to 85Nm through the starter hole!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

The crank is held still with the breaker bar while tightening the drive plate. The crank locking pin can't be used for this job because there are three bolts so the engine has to be rotated to specific points

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Bosch FGR6KQE spark plugs - exactly what the factory fitted but without the Audi logo and 1/3 the price :p How many mechanics use a torque wrench on spark plugs, or even bother to read the torque specification on the box? One - me! I am amazed every time I take an engine apart how completely randomly tight or not the plugs are. Some are gorilla'd in, some are only hand-tight! Its really not that hard to do it properly :rolleyes: 28Nm in case you need to know

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016

Only one picture for a couple of hours work, but I degreased and cleaned up the wiring harness and put that back on the engine, along with the starter motor, alternator and engine mounts. Its pretty much ready to go back on the subframe tomorrow +++

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1554756016


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