A8 Parts Forum - B5 A4 Quattro Sport B5 4,2L V8 6-Speed Manual.

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- - B5 A4 Quattro Sport B5 4,2L V8 6-Speed Manual. (https://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1224)

B5 A4 Quattro Sport 4,2L V8 6-Speed Manual.

Hi guys, as we don't have a specific "Projects" section, I thought I'd post mine here.

I've had over 32 Audi models since 1990, though never a V8-engined model. My current car, a B5 A4 Quattro Sport started life as a tired Agate Grey 2,6L V6 12V, with a 5-speed manual.

Today, she's the UK's only 4,2L 32V V8-engined model, mated to an 01E 6-speed manual, via one of my special 7,2kg single-mass steel flywheels.

But first, I wanted the body to look the part, and still look OEM, hence project B5 RS4 Sedan V8 was born.

Pictures of my base car, a '96 B5 A4 Quattro Sport 2,6L 12V V6, with 200,000 miles on the odometer:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007115.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007114.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007112.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007110.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007117.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5082007116.jpg

Now, the RS4 front doors only differ from facelift ones, in that they lack mid and lower trims.

So, I decided to buy these used, all that they'd need then, would be to have the 6 little holes welded up, and the lower trim studs ground off.

I bought these, 2 of only 3 used parts in this project:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9102007039.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9102007038.jpg

I also wanted the Euro facelift trunk lid, so bought from the same B5 that liberated its front doors. The 3rd of 3 used parts in this project:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9102007041.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9102007040.jpg

I wasn't going to just slap the trunk on as it was, I wanted a subtle B6-style modification, but more of that later.

Then came RS4 cast aluminium mirrors - had I known about A8 Parts then, I'd have possibly bought used S8 ones, as they're the same, just the base plate would have needed changing over. But here we go...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007061.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007060.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007059.jpg

Then RS4 one-piece xenon headlamps...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007097.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007096.jpg

I bought A4 facelift rear tails, to replace the ugly early version, with the chunky amber inserts...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1102007044.jpg

And matching A4 facelift rear bulb holders...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1102007048.jpg

RS4 front clip came next...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1112007050.jpg

My kitchen was gradually filling up with RS4 parts. :rolleyes:

Next were RS4 plastic wheel arch liners, left and right, rear, as the stock items would leave a mud trap, due to the wide-hipped RS4 rear end...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007056.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007055.jpg

Then RS4 plastic wheel arch liners, left and right, front...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7102007037.jpg

B5 RS4 rear quarters extend as high as the fuel filler flap, so...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1102007047.jpg

I then realised that the RS4 MUST have wider rear wheel arch wells, to meet the wider arches.

So, I ordered these...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1102007046.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1102007045.jpg

Then came the little bits and pieces, that are easy to over look.

B7 aero wiper arms and blades...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6102007030.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6102007029.jpg

RS4 side repeaters...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6102007032.jpg

RS4 headlamp washer covers...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6102007028.jpg

RS4 headlamp washer pump...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7102007036.jpg

RS4 headlamp washer bottle...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007057.jpg

As I previously mentioned, I wanted to subtly modify my Euro facelift B5 trunk, so this happened...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007068.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007066.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007065.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007064.jpg

...a subtle B6-style swage line and licence plate recess.

My base car had over 200,000 miles under her belt, so it was obvious the suspension would be shot to hell.

I purchased -30mm Eibach Sport Springs, designed for the heavier RS4. It would lower my car less, but as I planned a larger, heavier engine and 6-speed tranny from the onset, I allowed for that.

Eibach springs...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007077.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2112007076.jpg

Then RS4 Bilstein Sport Dampers, ordered from my local Audi dealership...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7112007070.jpg

I also ordered the front lower arms...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...8112007072.jpg

...And a complete set of rear bushes...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...3112007078.jpg

I then settled on my wheels - BBS RX II's splits, in 8,5"x18" ET 20, with Dunlop Sport 9000's, in 255/35x18, the correct dimensions for an RS4.

I ordered them, and they turned up from Germany 2 weeks later...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5112007088.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5112007087.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5112007086.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5112007085.jpg

S8 Brembos with pads...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...8112007242.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...8112007240.jpg

Engine originally destined for Project B5:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6012007491.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6012007490.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6012007488.jpg

Sold February 2008 to make way for D2 power...:cool:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5042008471.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5042008474.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5042008470.jpg

I never liked auto trannies, besides the maintenance issues, they rob valuable power, are damn heavy, and not fuel consumption friendly. They are also slower, and limit the amount of torque you can shove through them.

Rebuilt 2000 S4 6-speed tranny. I also bought a 6-speed from a wrecked Allroad 2,5TDI, and robbed it of the 5th and 6th gears to replace the 5th and 6th cogs in my S4 box.

Now geared to do 37.5mph per 1,000rpm...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032008391.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032008390.jpg

Manual V8-engined Audi's were never imported to the UK.

So, I had to have a flywheel custom made. This is the Gen. 1 version, and used a seperate pressed-in boss to take an OEM spigot bearing. My later Gen. 2 versions have an integral boss.

D11 / D2 32V Gen. 1 single mass flywheel, weighing 7,2kgs:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2062008637.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2062008641.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2062008640.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...2062008643.jpg

Must have cost a fortune+++

Looking very good and should imagine will be v.quick:love:

Now, back to the serious business, the mechanical side, mostly her D2 heart, and 6-speed tranny.

I had measured extensively, and knew the 077 series V8 block would physically fit the B5 engine bay.

I had also seen some examples, one average one, an 079 series S4 motor, from a B6 / B7 S4 in a Canadian B5 A4, which with it's rear chain-driven camshafts, is slightly shorter than both 32 and 40V front belt-driven 077 series from D11, D2 and C5.

A Greek C5 RS6 motor stuffed into a B5 A4, which due to the route the owner took, added a lot of extra forward bias to the car. It utilised a thick adapter plate to mate the auto-only RS6 block to an 01E - it also involved lenghtening the hood, fenders and the bumper sides, as he also had extensions to move the front clip forwards. That was a no-no for me.

Then there was the white S4 that Audi used for R&D purposes in 1998, as a prelude to the B6 S4, which was already being planned, and it was announced it would be V8-powered, rather than the V6 biturbo in the B5. It was entrusted to Audi's then newly acquired subsidiary, Cosworth Technology (now known as Mahle Powertrain) to see what modifications would be required, to get the V8 to fit. It involved radically reworked front end, which I did NOT like - hood, headlamps, grille, bumper, front clip and lower fenders.

Mine had to look like it belonged there, else I wouldn't bother. I'm pleased to say it looks pretty good. Here are some pictures of the different approaches to V8 into B5:

Canadian B5 A4Q with 079 series V8 40V engine install, pairly neat and OEM, works well...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...23702_9895.jpg

Greek B5 A4Q with C5 RS6 engine install - note how far forward the block is, and the extensions made to relocate the front clip. The hood, fenders and bumper sides will require serious surgery to match, giving the car an odd look...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/IMG_0033.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/IMG_0032.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/IMG_0029.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/IMG_0028.jpg

Audi UK / Cosworth Technology B5 S4 with 077 series V8 40V install - note the modified front end...

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...osworth_04.jpg

And my version. Only cutting mine required was the fibreglass fron clip / radiator frame. All metal work is unmolested, and the car still looks stock with the hood closed...

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009672.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...6092009776.jpg

Fitting a V8 to a B5 isn't all plain sailing though, nor is converting it to manual, as I found out. Converting to manual is easy for me now though! :cool:

D11 / D2 32V Gen. 1 single mass flywheel trial fitted to D2 32V:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008653.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008644.jpg

TDC sensor location on 01E - tranny temporarily bolted to D2 V8 block:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008649.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008646.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008647.jpg

I'd later decided to go with an aftermarket stand alone ECU, as I intend to supercharge the engine. The OEM Bosch Motronic would not be flexible enough, I went with VEMS.

Here is the stock harness removed - modified to plug into VEMS, and the automatic connector was removed in the process, though not neccessary, even if running stock ABZ / AHC on 01E and stock ECU:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4062008648.jpg

B5 RS4 propshaft to mate the 01E to rear differential:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...3082008688.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...3082008689.jpg

D11 / D2 32V Gen.1 single-mass flywheel, and B5 RS4 clutch:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...r/Photo036.jpg

VEMS / AHC harness, with auto box delete, and VEMS ECU connectors:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Photo001-2.jpg

VEMS ECU:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Photo005-2.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Photo006-2.jpg

Custom billet aluminium gear knob:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Photo011-1.jpg

Some things can be approached full-on, with little research - as long as you trust your instincts, and know your ideas will work.

Some things however, require a different approach, and a degree of R&D. I bought an R&D car, in the shape of a 1996 A4 B5 1,8 20V.

Drives well enough, for the princely sum of £275, including collection fees.

I stripped the motor and manual tranny out over the weekend, and as a test bed for my S8 motor and 6-speed tranny, she's ideal.

Besides trial fitting, it gives me the opportunity to get custom engine mounts made.

I'll also be getting the engine running in the test car too, and map out any bugs while I'm at it. Updates via the usual pictures will follow sometime next week.

And yep, V8 into B5 does go, even with the secondary firewall in place. I did have to trim the fan cowlings from the front of the lock carrier / front clip, so fans will be pusher units mounted on the grille side.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009031.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009030.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009029.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009028.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009027.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...5032009026.jpg

I used a nearside engine mount platform / ARB bracket of a C5 A6 V8 40V:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...0032009049.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...0032009048.jpg

I also bought a nearside engine bracket, for the C5 A6 V8 40V;

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6032009058.jpg

Didn't fit the 32V block! :rolleyes:

And a D2 / C5 V8 front engine support:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7032009069.jpg

Didn't work with the B5 frame rail. :mad:

So, I knew the approach would be purely custom. No sweat - I did say the Blue B5 was purely an R&D excercise, right? :rolleyes:

Nearside C5 mount, showing ill fit - only 2 out of 3 bolt holes and profiles lined up:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4042009082.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4042009084.jpg

Front D2 / C5 V8 front engine support. Big gap between bracket and B5 frame rail:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4042009081.jpg

I had to pull the motor out again, to shave the fins on the much deeper D2 upper oil pan, as they fouled the subframe:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4042009083.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4042009085.jpg

Now it all sits level:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9042009132.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9042009131.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...9042009130.jpg

Once the engine was sitting nice and level, it was time to make the engine bracket mock-ups. I ised 12mm thick MDF, though the final products would be 10mm thick. Plenty enough for the S8's torque.

Nearside S8 engine bracket mock-up:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6042009121.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6042009120.jpg

Front S8 engine support mock-up:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6042009119.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...6042009118.jpg

As I mentioned previously, my D11 / D2 32V Gen.1 flywheels were made to have an insert pressed into the centre, to accept an OEM spigot bearing. My Gen.2 versions have an integral boss to accept the same spigot bearing.

D11 / D2 32V Gen.2 single-mass flywheels, weight 7,2kgs:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...4052009151.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7052009158.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7052009156.jpg

Gobsmacked at the ease at which it's gone in. I would have imagined major bulkhead and subframe surgery! http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/images/smilies/bow.gif

Lol...firewall is still intact, as is the subframe. +++

My 01E 6-speed is from a 2001 S4, so new enough to have the internal oil pump.

In an S4, the oil lines feed directly into the radiator integrated oil cooler. In my car, I didn't use an S4 radiator, so purchased a Mocal 13-row oil cooler, which I plumbed into the existing 01E hard lines.

Mocal oil cooler:

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...9082009690.jpg

I am running 2 x 12" Pacet slimline fans, which work well in keeping the temps at a steady 90 degrees. The OEM V6 12V catalysts bolted up to the AHC manifolds, though I am going to be replacing both with 200 cell catalysts / downpipes, mating up to a custom stainless system, which will be built on the car.

I am also replacing the injectors with Bosch 0 280 150 431 red tops. These are rated at 346 cc/min @ 3 bar. The A8 / S8 FPR are 4 bar units, so will flow more. Once the injectors arrive, I shall do the final mapping on the fly.

How she looks today:

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009664.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009665.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009669.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009667.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...3082009666.jpg

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/a...6092009776.jpg

An awesome piece of engineering there mate. Incredibly impressed.

Hear Hear to that and an excellent post - very interesting, love to see her at ADI!! anything with a V8 has gotta be the way to go lol :D
Thanks for sharing +++

Thanks buddy.

Will see if I can make it to ADI - getting married next month, so schedule's pretty tight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siena (Post 7463)

Thanks buddy.

Will see if I can make it to ADI - getting married next month, so schedule's pretty tight.

you mean you've not arranged to be there for your honeymoon? :D
congratulations and good luck! +++

I've just had a chance to read this post fully.

What can I say, but AWESOME!!! Have you done all of the work yourself? If so, where are you based, and what else are you/your company capable of doing?

Seriously awesome work there, will look forward to the next project.

Does beg the question though, of being able to convert the Tiptronic A/S8's to manual, there's gotta be more room in the '8 transmission tunnel than in the A4?? :D

Oh yeah, found another image of the Cosworth S4

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/images/...to_4099_25.jpg

Love this project!

If I can help with ECU's in anyway, let me know :)

Thanks Doc, I'll bear that in mind. +++

Bump for an epic thread even if the guy did turn out to be a con artist, he certainly had skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh (Post 30224)

even if the guy did turn out to be a con artist

Sounds like a story us newbies haven't heard about before....