Are Teslas any good?
 

I bet that got a reaction from those who've driven them! ;)

But look at this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...=BBD082615_BIZ

Its interesting that it was marked down for the "quality of internal materials". I raised this with their rep at the annual meet and in a subsequent email pointing out that they were competing against top end cars at that price and it was just not as good in that area.

The other disappointment is that it did not achieve the factory 0-60 time.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/20/t...e-as-promised/

Reading a bit more about this, it appears that is because Tesla used 1-foot rollout for published figures for P85D, but used true 0-60 for their other models.
Its a real shame they were not clear about this, which also calls into question their claim about beating the McLaren F1 time which is without rollout.

With the new Ludicrous update P85D will probably match the McLaren, but they should have waited and not gone to press with false figures.

Still wouldn't stop me from buying one, just that I didn't expect such underhand tactics from this company.

Tesla has no grab handles (which I need to get in and out) FFS

I have just been across to Belgium (Driving through the Netherlands) on holiday in the 8 and saw 2 Grey model S Teslas




One was doing a steady 120kph in the middle lane as I wafted by - twas the door handles that alerted me to its presence.




The other was doing a steady 90 on the back of a recovery vehicle :mad:

I know I shouldn't, but.......:ROFL::ROFL:

Don't forget though - that recovery truck would never have got up to 90 unless it had a car with the superb aerodynamics and streamlining of the tesla broken down on the back of it! :rolleyes:

They've got the battery tech, but other manufacturers, Audi for example have got a lot of experience building cars, lightweight construction, ASF etc.. I'm not convinced by that huge screen in the middle of the dash, the implementation is so American, and cheap. A new Audi Q7, TT, B9 A4 with the virtual cockpit and latest infotainment systems with connect is beautiful to look at and use.

Audi have the battery tech in place, but they're not rushing into it. People get into an Audi and expect it to work, with a a Tesla, they know they're taking a punt on some new tech.

I really can't see what the attraction'll be once more established brands have the battery tech launched. :Confused:

Have you tried one Amar?

Nope.

I'd like to - I imagine I'd be seriously shocked/impressed with the performance. I dislike the looks, cannot stand a cheap interior, and couldn't give a toss about green credentials or fuel economy.

Has anyone sat in a modern Audi, new Q7/TT for example. They've moved the interior quality and ergonomic game up another few notches, that, combined with the battery tech (that already exists within Audi) will be the way to go IMHO.

I really don't get the Tesla hype. :Confused:

P.S There's a video online somewhere (search it) of an RS 7 murdering that new P85D in a drag race. :p

Even naming the mode 'Insane', is so cheap, un-classy, cheesy and American.

Now I'm just nitpicking.

Happy to be told why I'm an idiot and what I'm missing.

Try "Ludicrous" ;)….

And yet, the Tesla feels light years faster than the new RS 6 which is only 0.1s slower in acceleration than the RS7. At least up to 60mph anyway, I understand there are some misgivings about Tesla's motorway speed acceleration.
I drove the new RS6 and was driven in the P85D on the same day. The difference is shocking. The numbers are only perhaps 0.2s different, but the feeling is night and day.
In the Tesla you simply want to pass out from the g-force. You should try it.
Although I agree with you 100% about the interior, Audi does interiors so much better, and the big Tesla screen, I just hate it.

Also I want to take back what I said earlier. It seems the Mclaren's production version 0-60 is not that clear cut, Car and Driver got 3.2s to 60mph and they also use rollout. So it appears Tesla's claim that the first release P85D matches the F1 was accurate.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

I was very sceptical too until I drove one.

You can't really compare the Tesla to a high performance Audi; they're chalk and cheese. They're not better, just different ... shockingly different, in good way.

You really do have to experience one for yourself though, they really are a game-changer. I guarantee that whatever your expectations of the experience are, the Tesla will exceed them.

The RS6 I drove in Wales at the annual meet was downright brutal, and that was 4-up.

I suspect that the subjective difference is down to the IMMEDIATE acceleration from standstill whereas the RS6 etc. do (slightly) feed it in, so you can brace yourself to some extent, rather than experience a broken neck. :ROFL:

:ROFL:

I didn't realise you were also at Snowdonia HP; did we meet? I tried to say hello to everyone, but with so many new faces and so little time, I think probably missed talking to a few people. You didn't go out in the Teslas then?



But yeah, from an acceleration comparison point of view, that's precisely it. The RS6 takes time to build torque, whereas the Tesla's torque is full-on the instant you hit the quiet-pedal.

I drove the RS6 in Wales too. What a fantastic machine. It's brutal, with aggressive acceleration and everything you could wish for in a modern petrol-driven car.

The Tesla is something else though. The P85D is shockingly quick accelerating off the line, but the way it does it leaves you feeling like you've been transported into the future. There's just a quiet whir from the electric motors that rapidly rises in pitch, and 3 seconds later you're travelling at over 60mph. The car feels very refined and well-built, and the interior feels years ahead of anything else.

I'd love to own a Tesla, but I couldn't give up my V8 for one. I would have to have both.

+1 +++

+2

I'm sure we met, though we were staying at Penmaenuchauf not The George. Irish Green Pearl FL D2 S8 with S8 personal plate (see sig).
Sadly didn't have time to drive a Tesla (though did watch them moving) as we needed to head off on Sunday to visit my aged (and now late) father-in-law.
I think one followed me out as we left and did the 0-60 stunt behind me. ;)

I guess you get used to it, but I still remember the first time I really used the power of my first S8 (grey one in sig pic) when passing someone who was already going quite quickly.
SWMBO was with me and vaguely noticed we had speeded up somewhat, I didn't tell her that we had just added over 50mph in a very short time with no fuss whatsoever. :tuttut:
A brutal neck-snap is no longer something I'm interested in TBH, just smooth excessive power.

Did you try holding it on the brake and letting the revs build to 4 - 4.5k and then letting it go. Get those turbos spinning before pulling away so it's delivering boost for the off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting for a minute I'd be seriously impressed, and I'm gutted I missed out trying one - I'd really like to experience one.

I just think it looks naff for the price, inside and out. The battery seems to be the only reason to consider a Tesla, right? So 'if' I were in the market for a car such as a Tesla I'd wait for a more established brand to come to the party.

Ah yes. I think I remember the car. We probably did meet -- I'm hopeless at remembering names and faces.

Totally with you there. I frequently have moments like that in my S8, and it never gets boring. I just love the smooth power delivery and the roar of the V8; no EV could ever replace that.

My opinion of Teslas, pre-Snowdonia, was exactly the same as yours. While the acceleration is instant, it is also very smooth. But they're so much more than just a quick electric car. You really have to experience it for yourself. Trust me, you'll be glad you did.

I have to agree, outwardly the styling could be improved upon. From some angles, in the right colour, I think it's quite stunning, but it does look a bit of a mishmash of a few different cars, and I'm not so keen on the front-end styling. I did rather like the interior though; it befitted the futuristic feel of the driving experience.

I'm sure - as you work for part of the Audi network - Tesla would be delighted to let you try one. Just let me know, and I'll put you in touch +++

Tesla were actually at Audi not long ago, never asked why.

Thanks for the offer, TinTin. I'd have no intention of buying one, I'd merely be satisfying curiosity so I won't take you up on it but should we have another one at a meet, I'd love to try one at a ride and drive day type event.

Here y'go Jim...
 

- another petrolhead pro-Tesla article ;)

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how...ctive-on-cars/

Amar is right, lets wait and see what the big marques come up with.
Porsche is already jumping in, and interior wise it looks much better than Tesla S.
Acceleration is on par, maybe only 0.2s slower.

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/mis...aspx#/interior

Some things I don't like though. No.1 they are planning to use permanent magnet motors.
Shame, there are much better technologies out there superior to even Tesla's motor.
Chorus motor or Reluctance motor > Asynchronous motor > Permanent magnet motor

Second thing is the doors that open like a Rolls royce phantom, does not look good or sporty.

And the stance is too low. It looks amazing sure, but I want to be able to go over speed bumps and not bottom out over potholes :)

But the Europeans don't like them apparently
 

As you may recall Jim, when we were in the Tesla I pointed out the rather underwhelming interior and said that they would be competing with equivalent cost vehicles such as top model BMWs etc.......

"BMW i3 outsold Model S more than 30% in Germany through August"

Surprising! The i3 looks terrible (at least to me) and has really narrow tyres mostly for range, which I think was a bad idea.
Interior looks good though.

When I look at Audi & Porsche I see words like 'experimental' and 'prototype'
When I look at Tesla I see a car. An actual real working car.

It's great to see a new player shaking up the complacent established marques. A far as I understand it Tesla have not invented any amazing new tech, but they've had the vision to take what was already out there, and use that to create a game changing vehicle.

I think this is most likely due to the cost of the i3 vs the Tesla. I'd like a Tesla model S, but its a little too pricey, and while the i3 is a lot more affordable a realistic range of 80 miles is just not enough. I often do 60-70 miles a day and I'd have range anxiety driving me crazy if I couldn't plug it in. To pay more for the range extender seems a little silly,..

Matt Farah's and the owner's take on it was informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMohjMQcmOg

BMW must have a really good designer to make a car that ugly!

People buy a Tesla with the expectation they're taking a punt/trying something new. The expectation for an Audi/Porsche is completely different - it has to work, and be perfect, the technology already exists within Audi, with a battery developed in house. The established brands don't need to be first to market for people to pay attention. Audi have a strategy for all-electric vehicles, watch this space. +++

Really Amar? I'm not sure how you can support any of those statements:

(1)People buy a Tesla with the expectation they're taking a punt/trying something new - what evidence do you have to say this? How many Telsa owners have you spoken to/been in contact with?. The owner group of 200+ that I'm in touch with who have bought these are definitely not "taking a punt" (with > 50k!) - they're nearly all making a personal financial commitment, not having it as a company perk. But maybe you have.

(2) The expectation for an Audi/Porsche is completely different - it has to work, and be perfect. See (1) above. Having seen the comments on the Tesla forum, those who have reserved/bought a Model S are - almost without exception - coming from brands like Audi and Porche (or in a number of cases better ones) to Tesla. Are you suggesting that these (naturally rather picky/particular) people are suddenly changing their behaviour and dropping their standards? I know that I certainly didn't, and from the large number of comments that I've seen from these people, the opposite is the case.

It's also been interesting, for me at least, contrasting the shoddy treatment that I - and some others on this forum - have seen from UK Audi dealerships with Tesla's "bend over backwards"/professional attitude - in the UK at least, which is all I have evidence of. The annual meet, which you weren't at unfortunately, was a very good example of that contrast.

(3) It has to work, and be perfect, the technology already exists within Audi, with a battery developed in house. Where's your evidence for this, other than vague Audi (or Porsche) promises of something which is years away? - Audi have just withdrawn their A8 hybrid, with the open admission from them that it can't compete with the Tesla. As already noted by Tonupkid:

"When I look at Audi & Porsche I see words like 'experimental' and 'prototype'
When I look at Tesla I see a car. An actual real working car.

It's great to see a new player shaking up the complacent established marques. A far as I understand it Tesla have not invented any amazing new tech, but they've had the vision to take what was already out there, and use that to create a game changing vehicle"

I'd love to see an Audi now that could compete with the Tesla, as the competition would be good for everyone, and have the Audi brand values, but it's all promises and vapourware - from them and others.

(4) The established brands don't need to be first to market for people to pay attention. An interesting attitude.

I can remember, as part of past consulting projects, talking to the:
(A) MD of the UK Post Office, who he didn't need to worry about the internet and
(B) Board directors at Polaroid and Motorola who said the same thing about digital cameras and Nokia/Samsung respectively.

What the established brand - and their existing/potential customers - will pay attention to is sales numbers: In April to June of this year (for example) Tesla sold nearly 60% as many Model S's as Audi sold A8's in the UK, and I'm sure that'll get their attention.

(5) Audi have a strategy for all-electric vehicles, watch this space. Great, I'm glad. What is it?
Where is their powertrain/onboard power supply going to come from? How are they going to produce the batteries in enough volume to meet demand? How are they going to ensure they have the charging infrastructure? - are they going to "borrow" Tesla's? Are they confident enough to provide the same 8 year, unlimited mileage warranty on their products as Tesla (and will they then honour it unreservedly, without trying to "pass the buck" ;) ?

I'd genuinely love to know the answers to these and many other EV strategy questions, as it would make their promises more credible.

What I find slightly surprising about your recent contributions on this forum is that most have been on the threads which are Tesla-related (e.g. more posts on this thread than anyone else..), and your posts are nearly all in defence of Audi, which you have a declared self-interest in - though I still remember the good old days when you used to sing the praises of BMWs ;)..).

As someone who has no association with either manufacturer, but has both an Audi S8 and a Tesla on my drive, I can see strengths in both, and I've enjoyed the comments from others on here, most of whom have actually tried both. Maybe you should too - experience is the basis of wisdom. +++

TinTin, I'm on my IPhone so am going to struggle to comment on each of your points individually.

Yes, I've commented a lot on the Tesla thread as the whole concept/reality of these electric cars interests me, without looking back, I'm sure I applied 'IMO' to my earlier posts, because I am only expressing my opinion, it doesn't make it gospel, and it isn't intended to offend. I don't *believe* I've ever identified who/where I work, so these opinions really should be taken as just that, mine.

Audi's stance on Tesla can be viewed here, time will tell if they're right or wrong I suppose...

http://youtu.be/tkznti2qfzI

I had no idea you owned a Tesla, but admire you having the balls to do something different. Maybe you can take me for a spin at the next meet, and by the way, I really do try to attend, but have nowhere near the free time I used to anymore sadly.

Oh, and I still sing the praises of BMW, they're second to Porsche in my list of favorites with Audi sat in third. All dependent on model, and all in my personal opinion of course. +++

Interestingly I've just got back home from the Kop Hill Climb, which is quite close to me. http://www.kophillclimb.org.uk/
Some great cars, though a blue 24-litre job (Napier-Railton I think) was particularly noisy!

Couple of Teslas did the run and they were, as expected, spectacularly fast off the line.

My personal favourite was the green LaFerrari (22 JET) belonging to Jay Kay which I watched from beside the steep bit up in the woods.

Ahh…Jay Kay. Last year some one told me I looked like him (it was my cousin, and she clearly needs glasses…). That was a fantasy, as big as me owning a LaFerrari is (can you mix an indefinite article in one language with the definite article in another?). I must admit though, I'd like to see one, or ideally drive one - I've driven other Ferraris, but I think this one might elude me somehow...

Jay Kay?? Is that the author of the wizardy capers or some guy with baggy trousers and and urge to show off his Y-fronts labels. If you look like some rapper and are cooler than a fridge then that is just fine but its a generational thing and it didnt look so cool on John Major. (I am not sure what he drove though)

Here's Audi's E-tron Quattro SUV Concept as just announced - interesting stats and info and it looks like it's pretty close to being production ready. I can't see Audi waiting until 2018 if Teslas SUV is coming out sooner +++
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=kNSjld2aFZg