Updating windscreen washer jets (D2)
 

The long discussion about upgrading D3 jets to either triple of fan variants made me think about the limitations of the D2 windscreen washer jets.
Has anyone ever tried to upgrade/improve them?

Years ago I upgraded my old (long gone) Ford Focus with fan jets which were much better, and thinking about them today I realised the originals were very similar in design to the D2 ones.

A quick rummage later and I found the originals I had replaced (why do I still have them? :Confused: ) and headed off to the garage to look at my spare scuttle cover.

The Ford jets click straight in to the rectangular mounting holes on the D2 scuttle panel. :D
They are a bit narrower but the fit is good and the direction/angle looks plausible when I check against my car. +++

Need to look at the wiring for the heated jets but that's going to be easy to transplant if the connectors are different. :cool:

Off now to search online for Fan jets for Ford Focus MkIII (or is it MkII?).

MkIII. £12.54 from AliExpress for a pair (heated). Not quite as cheap as the D3 ones.

Link?

Here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/For-...845916670.html

The D2 wiring is much longer and has a different connector, so when I get them there will be work to do.

I'll also use a meter to check the resistance of both types (Ford and Audi) before committing to wiring in the heaters. ;)

Well, if Mike orders a few sets and you do the write up there would be some takers - me for one - at the annual meet no doubt (saves on postage ;) )

I'll probably just plug them in unheated to start with to check fitment/alignment etc.

That all should be pretty simple, though you need to remove the scuttle panel (and wiper arms first) to unclip the jets and swap the pipes over.
The Ford ones have a tiny lug on to align precisely so a corresponding tiny notch may be needed in the scuttle panel.


Probably won't be here for a few weeks; slow boat from China! :ROFL:

Postage is "free", not sure if volume orders get a discount. Max 5 per customer at that price anyway.

Imagines Mike and Andrew standing next to a suitcase on a stand and a yellow three wheeler in the background - Get yer heated washer jets! A score for a pair. Get 'em while they're hot!

Which you can see in this photo, comparing Audi and Ford (with leads) "standard" jets.

And looking at this image (owned by our sponsors and posted on eBay) the connector isn't the standard VAG group type, it's longer and more symmetrical at the end.
Ideally I'd like to buy a couple of tails to graft onto the Ford-style jets, rather than cannibalise the existing. Anyone know the part number for it or it's mate?

If I have read it properly, there isn't a part number for the connector attached to the cable in the photo. It's sold as a complete unit (4d0955988), but the connector at the other end is part number 8e0973202.

BTW The little itty bitty metal clips are part number 4d0955491a.

I found a picture showing a BMW part 8366275-02 for the other connector (On a German Audi A4 forum)! With an Audi mate. :Confused:

Edit: RS seems to sell something very similar: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/8010755/
The connectors on the leads from the jets (I've just had a look) have no identifying marks at all as far as I can see. Surprised how small they are too.

Interesting discussion.
I wonder if there is a straight fit for D2 from newer cars
without modifications of scuttle panel or wedges.

Why we worry about matching resistance Andrew?
Different models of jets will have different resistance since
the new jets may require more or less heat to run.
The difference in wattage won’t be significant.

I think the biggest challenge is to find a model with matching geometry
that won’t require wedging, which I doubt because podiums on
D2 scuttle panel are not horizontal, but pointing upwards,
which means any standard jets from other cars will aim too high.

Thread in Russian of fitting skoda jets to D2 and modifying the podiums.
Brutal :)

http://as8.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=2588&start=50

I think the spray pattern is the main issue, hence the D3 thread concentrating on 3-nozzle or mist patterns. The Ford mist pattern is one I'm familiar with and like and luckily it fits easily.

The D2 has simple rectangular cutouts that the nozzle units clip into but later models seem to have much larger ones. It's probably fairly easy to fix almost anything to a D2 scuttle panel with minor modifications, I'm hoping for none.

As for resistance, that's just me being cautious, I expect almost all units for any vehicle to be similar, but as these are coming from China I just want to check that they're unlikely to blow a fuse.

Offhand, without delving into wiring diagrams etc., does anyone know what turns the heating elements on and what they're sharing a circuit with (if anything).
As they only warm the (tiny) nozzles I guess there's very little current draw anyway; nothing like a mirror requires.

Looking for results of testing those Ford mist type jets.
My prediction is that they'll aim too high :)
Hopefully they will be adjustable.

Watching this thread with interest

I'm very familiar with the geometry so, even though the Ford ones mount on the bonnet, I think they'll be pretty much spot on.
(Focus bonnet is quite sloped, unlike a D2)

And the Chinese ones I've ordered are advertised as adjustable. ;)

In terms of wiring the A8 D2 FL jets are 'always on' and are protected by 5A fuse.
The resistance and wattage will change depending on outside temperature.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1522922232

Found that as well Andrew that some BMWs use the exact same connector and part number.

Thanks for that, and the diagram, clarifies a lot.

The connector (BMW 8366275-02 ) seems impossible to get at a "sensible" price so, unless someone has a better idea, I'll resort to "surgery" on my existing leads.

I always like to be able to put back the originals, so my plan is:
1. Buy a handful of 2-pin waterproof connectors in male/female pairs (available cheaply in UK).
2. Split the existing leads (near the connector) and insert a male-female pair in each.
3. Reconnect for normal use and wait for new nozzles to arrive from China.
4. Replace connector on the new nozzles with longer wires and the new type of connector.
5. Swap over to new nozzles by disconnecting old nozzles at the new split.

Slightly less tidy as each lead will now have a short "adapter" section in, but it will all be under the cover over the wiper motor. And no "empty" connectors.
Being lazy (and not good at crimping) I've ordered pre-wired connectors with reasonable tails on; they will just need soldering and a heat-shrink wrap.

Andrew, I came across another site that sells only connectors for cars. Their website is as follows:

https://www.automotive-connectors.com/

CAUTION: They have lots!

I’d simply ‘T’ into existing wiring for the new jets. Solder in new wires into existing ones.
So you will have both old connector and any new connector you can imagine to connect new stuff.
So that old and new connectors are not mutually exclusive and you will always be able to return to old jets if you want to.

For experiments I’d simply tee wires with naked ends and will do experiments without thinking too much about the fancy connectors.
When you decide about the right jets we can talk connectors.

Hope it makes sense :)

Well found Sean.
That was a really good find, I'll spend hours on there.

That makes sense of course, but I'm applying these principles (among others):
1. As far as possible leave the existing main loom alone
2. No open/exposed connectors under the bonnet as it's open to the elements

Making a break in the fly lead does add an extra joint in the leads but also gives flexibility to swap easily between the variants.

Appreciate that, but if you ever opened up existing looms you will see a lot of 'connections' right in the loom made in factory, so even factory looms are a bit messy. With availability of Certoplast it is possible to create a 'T' in the loom which is indistinguishable from the original factory wiring. I can assure you.
Even under bonnet and even wiring right near the engine. My wiring for Xenon level sensors, for washer water level sensor, radiator temperature sensor was not in good condition and it is possible to create quality repair that will be as good, if not better than factory wiring.
If you will ever need help to properly do wiring I can meet you and help doing it.
For experiments I would T from existing wires (not the heating elements for now, since they are not important at the moment) and I will use simple WAGO connectors to quickly connect and disconnect the washer jet. When solution will be identified, I'd solder in Audi native connector there, so that you'll have all options to connect: 1. Genuine washers 2. New washers 3. Both :)

Really looking forward to finding a contemporary, hi-performance washer jet that will point to proper windshield area without modifications to both scuttle panel and the washer itself.

Oh yes, I know that, I've done it myself and have a good supply of Certoplast. +++
Had to do it a while back to disable the auxiliary coolant pump on the current S8.
(Though now I know where the likely connector is I wouldn't need to on another S8)

Interesting, just had a look at that and their approach seems both brutal and unnecessary.
1. The Skoda parts are fan jets, look good.
2. Connectors look the same as Audi D2. Better.
3. Size looks VERY similar, I think there may be an easier way to fit them without modifying the panel.

I'm going to see if I can get a cheap pair to experiment with. Part number is 6Y0 955 986.

Edit: Alternative part number 5J0 955 986 available from China for £7 each. There are triple-jet and fan versions of these as far as I can see, not sure how the part numbers correspond.
If nothing else it will be probably the cheapest way of getting the connectors!

Following with interest.

You should be given an award if you find jets that will fit podiums and can be adjusted to accommodate aggressive slope of those podiums.

+++

I'm pretty confident the Ford Focus ones will have the correct angle, or be adjustable to it.
Not so certain about the Skoda ones as I've not got my hands on them yet, but I have some ideas that are a lot more elegant than the Russian solution!

Either way it's all coming from China so quite a wait now. :cool:

All good things come to those who wait

+++

I wonder if they're the same ones as on a BA Falcon?
My missus' old Falcon had fan style spray nozzles.

If so, it'll be easy to find a set!

Falcon is Ford, so probably the same as the Focus. ;)

Personally I've always liked the hose to be extended up the wiper arm so the spray nozzle is always at the wiper blade through out it's travel.

The washers jets arrived today, hopefully the wiring connectors will arrive soon.

Tested them, both are around 50ohms, so just 0.25A each in a 12v circuit or about 3W.

I've got a 2015 XF and the washer jets are on the wiper arm, about half way up and it drives me bonkers! It also delivers a presumably eco friendly preset amount of screen wash too, which is never enough and so you just keep pressing it anyway!

The BIG downside of having them there is that the screenwash doesn't have enough time to travel along the wiper blade before it get's thrown off so the tops and the bottoms of the blade smear badly, especially on the bottom if you are driving along as simple physics dictate the water only travels up the wiper blade!

Give me 1990's tech washers any day of the week.

Good find that man!! +++

I've now received a couple of the Chinese heated fan spray heads, and they are quite loose when fitted. I have the spacers (thanks Ray) but for the life of me can not figure how they attach. Any pictures or help much appreciated. TIA

Well they have arrived but are a complete waste of time, because:
1. The connector is NOT the same as the D2; it looks similar but is significantly larger so does not fit.
2. The unit is more "low profile" then the D2 or Focus units, probably one reason why the Russians raised it so much to clear the wiper arms.
3. The jet squirts more upwards than the Focus, and does not appear to be adjustable. (ref Russians again)
4. The unit is smaller so does not clip into the D2 mounting slot. (ditto)

But regarding the Focus ones:
And one answer is that I also kept the washer/grommet that helped seal them tightly to the Focus bonnet.
The new ones didn't come with those, but moving them across makes the fitting into the D2 scuttle much more secure.

Just need some decent weather now to go out, connect and test them and if OK connect up the heating elements.

PM sent

Following the slight digression into washer jets and pipework (which I added to :o ) in MJ's thread about Vera's S8 I thought I'd continue here as it's more relevant.

I bought a spare scuttle panel (*from our sponsors) a while ago (to fix a mounting/sealing problem, but didn't use it in the end) and it included the jets and some pipework.

Sadly the jets have had the wiring cut off (not by me!) so can only be used unheated, but they'll do as spares. Prompted by the descaling comments I dunked them into some fairly serious professional descaler I use, based on Phosphoric acid, minimally diluted and warm.

As you can see in this photo, taken some time after starting, they are bubbling away nicely. And still are as I type nearly an hour later!
I positioned the jets downward, input pipe upwards, so that as they bubble away there will be a constant flow.

I've not tried fitting them yet, I'm still looking carefully at the geometry, and it's confusing. :Confused:

I'm taking the angle of the mounting plates for the washer jets, with the scuttle panel correctly fitted (which mine wasn't, but now is) as a reference.
This appears to be pretty much parallel to, or very slightly inclined towards, the face of the windscreen.

The Focus jets come out pretty much parallel (maybe a degree or so above) their mounting plate. As they are more of a diffuse fan than two jets they will probably have less range.
Despite the description saying they are adjustable, they are NOT! :(

My current Audi jets are definitely angled down with respect to the reference plane, so hit the windscreen quite low down, but there is a reason for that:
I currently have non-OEM "aero" type wiper blades which sit slightly lower than the OEM metal articulated arms do, and my jets are aimed to pass below the arm and above the blade when the blade is "parked".

If I had OEM blades I would need to raise the jets somewhat, in fact on the drivers side quite a lot as the jets would initially hit the wind deflector. But would they then land on the windscreen or shoot over onto the roof?

It would be helpful if someone with OEM wiper arms and blades could check their setup, in particular:
1. What angle do the jets emerge compared to either the mounting plate or windscreen face?
2. Do the drivers side jets hit the deflector?
3. Do the jets land on the windscreen at low speeds and are they deflected higher at high speeds?

Resurrecting this thread somewhat after 2 years of hibernation...…
My S8 had been SORNed but I had to tax it to use it a couple of times and then realised that it's MOT is now due fairly soon too - the 6-month extension that isn't after all!
Checking it over the passenger side washer jet is pathetic and I don't want to give them any excuses to fail it.

In the end I dunked it for a couple of hours in NEAT descaler as used above and after that its' perfect. +++

Note for anyone who's thinking of doing the same, there's a fair bit of disassembly required to get the nozzle free enough to soak it:
1. Remove wiper blades and arms, remove cover panel over wiper motor.
2. Disconnect washer pipe and heated jet connectors under that cover near the motor.
3. Remove scuttle panel fixing bolts - one each end one in the centre - and lift off panel towards the front of the car. Note locating tongues on the body that fit into slots under the panel.
4. Rather than unclip all the wiring and piping to totally free the nozzle I just undid one cable tie to give some slack in the wiring and took the pipe off then pressed the catch and popped it out of the mounting slot. That freed it just enough to dangle it into a small vessel full of descaler, carefully balancing the panel so as not to knock it all over!

A quick test by connecting a spare length of pipe from near the washer motor directly to the descaled jet proved it was good. Reassembled and tested fine, didn't even need to realign the jets. :cool:

When I've got it through the MOT I'll return to the original challenge and try the alternative jets I have. +++