Gearbox Funk
 

I've had a somewhat troubling day today; I left the handbrake on a notch without noticing for a mile or so, the smell was obvious as I was at low speed, and I was able to correct the error fairly quickly without, hopefully, any long term damage!

That said, 3/4 hours later I was backing out of my drive, a back and forth affair as a tight fit, and without warning the changes became harsh, all the gearbox indicators on the dash increased in size and where highlighted in red (P-N-R-D-S) and the box was behaving oddly! Stopped and switched off and after starting again (mostly) normality returned (the 'D' now seems to flash 'highlighted' occasionally)!

To say I am concerned I have bought a 'lemon' would be an understatement!

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Neil

My first suspicion would be the F125 switch.
Settle down and read this thread.... http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12221

Agree with HP. It may have been an existing fault which keeps coming and going as this fault often does - or it may have just decided that it was time to play up. Whats the mileage?
Edit: i see from your intro post it's 113k. Bingo!Within 10%of several other F125 failures)

Phew!
 

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the quick responses, I feel much less concerned now though I imagine my wallet is going to feel a lot light soon!

Thanks again.

Neil

Important thing is no need to rush if that is it. And definitely don't panic.
Do you have VCDS? That's fairly important so that you can check for any error codes before doing anything at all.

If the warning display clears when you stop the car and only appears occasionally when doing "brisk" moves of the gear lever, typically reversing as you describe, then you can live with it for ages. I did for well over 3 years before finally getting it done.

I only ever got the infamous 01119 Gear Recognition Signal error, though others have had additional ones. If it's gearbox internals you usually get fairly specific errors about them.

If/when you decide to get it done it helps to have a cooperative/understanding garage and give them all the tips and techniques from Audipages and especially from MikkiJayne who managed to do it so quickly.
I think my garage did it "by the book" and charged me for the standard time even though it can be (and probably was) quicker and easier.

DSAutowerks
 

Just spoke to David at DSAutowerks in Crawley and I must say he was one of the most pleasant people I have spoken to (at a garage) in a very long time! Knowledgeable, helpful and friendly and offering to fix my F125 issue at, what seemed to me, to be a very good price!

I'll let you know how it goes after the 30th when it is booked in!

Thanks

Neil

I'll second that... David replaced my timing belt/oil cooler pipe (aluminium one) in March of this year. Very happy with the service received.

Whats the price? - if you dont me asking :)

The F125 is around £165 (inc VAT) thru TPS and the ETKA hours for the job is 5hrs. It can be done quicker (see MikkiJane) and my indy booked around 4 hrs.

I didn't know what the F125 switch was, so I had a look at audipages A8 F125 Transmission Switch replacement.
Looks like a lot of work with it being so inaccessible.

Good luck with the repair +++

Cost
 

David's8,

I've been quoted £400.00 give or take - the part is a little more but the hours a little less - it's handy in terms of location and I cannot fault the service so far!

Cheers

Neil

That sounds a good deal and with the recommend from johnny_quattro it seems you have a sound plan.+++

Update
 

Just in case this has any bearing on my visit to DSautowerks next week; the Gearbox Funk happened again yesterday evening with the PRNDS lights flashing and then which gear was being selected disappearing altogether however, in addition to the harsh changes the gearbox will not change out of, what feels like, 1st gear! After 2/3 stops/re-starts it calmed down and is OK this morning.

I am not sure that I had been clear before regarding not changing gear!

Thnaks.

Neil

In limp mode I think it's usually in 2nd or 3rd. I wait to be corrected.

3rd +++

Mine was temperature related. The first movement of the day resulted in limp mode so I'd leave her running for a few minutes then switch off and on again and she was fine for the rest of the day. I think the exhaust warms the switch up and then the contacts work well enough not to cause problems for the rest of the day.

This is all consistent and "normal" as MJ suggests.

Has you read any codes yet with VCDS or are you relying on the garage to do that before starting work?

Limp Mode
 

Possibly not Limp Mode then as it did feel like 1st, revs around 3K at crawling speed (something I haven't experienced before so scarily noisy!)

I can definitely recommend David at DS Autoworks. Crawley
Adrian E introduced me to David last year.
Since then David has sorted everything that needed sorting on my new 2002 D2 S8 FE
He is very knowledgeable about our cars, as he has one himself.
Very pleasant to deal with and competitively priced.
Highly recommended :D+++:D

Yep, posted a thread in recommended suppliers - David did the rear view camera retrofit on my Golf recently :)

On the gearbox fault I'm unfortunately not convinced it's going to be just the f125, but hopefullly that is all it is. I don't recall my gear indicator flashing when I had the fault, and usually when it occurred it did do the usual 'jam it in 3rd and refuse to change' limp mode. I do recall it once refusing to shift out of 1st I think

Has it had an oil and filter change on the box, as that's the next step depending what David finds when he scans it? The extra labour probably isn't that significant assuming access to do the f125 involves dropping the box a touch?

Barzya8's FE turned out to have a split gearbox filter which was throwing fault codes (correct me if I've remembered that wrong David!)

A8 ownership is a bit of an emotional roller-coaster it seems!:Confused:

You are correct Adrian.
When David did my gearbox service he found the filter to have a 6 inch split in it. He was amazed that the gearbox worked at all.
The added benefit was that the old split filter had a date on it of 2013, which meant the box had been service back then as well, despite there being no record of such a gearbox service.
David also found that some of the bolts were loose which was also causing an oil leak.
This would suggest my box has had 3 oil and filter services during its 94K mile history. Happy Days
Now all sorted with no leaks.
The gearbox now operates very smoothly as it should.:D

HPSauce - no VCDS is on my list of things to make and do!

If you're local to Crawley and just want a quick fault code scan to get an idea then welcome to pop over one evening?

Crawley
 

AdrianE - that is a very kind offer indeed - annoyingly I'm in the area tonight and then away until Tuesday when I drop the car at DSautowerks!

Crawley 2
 

..... I should add to that, rubbish explanation, I am in Surrey (Reigate and Ashtead) Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday during the day then Frinton on Sea Wednesday evening, Thursday through to Sunday!

I'm in horley and available - about a mile from the Shell roundabout on the A23, if you know it?

Update
 

Hi Adrian - Thanks again - just didn't pick this up until this morning in Reigate (bugger it!!!!!).

Am at home today, if it's any use still +++

A big 'Thank You' to Adrian for checking my S8 - before and after attached!

Neil
Attachment 16141

Attachment 16142

I can't open those, don't know if anyone else can either.... :Confused:
What's the summary, in a few words? ;)

Update
 

PDF any better?

Attachment 16143

Attachment 16144

Well you have 2 fault codes indicating the F125 is playing up:

Address 02: Auto Trans Module:
17090 - Transmission Range Sensor (F125)
P0706 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

and 2.

Address 03: ABS:
01119 - Gear Recognition Signal
35-10 - - - Intermittent

I assume with the "after" printout that the codes were cleared and that the car hasnt been driven after clearing them? Or at least the PRNDS issue hasnt arisen? But it does look like the F125 is acting up. :(

Looks like the usual collection of random crap, nothing significant.
And of course, as suspected, the likely F125 telltales:
01119 - Gear Recognition Signal 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17090 - Transmission Range Sensor (F125) P0706 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

Not sure about this one, or how significant it is:
18171 - Shift Lock Solenoid (N110) P1763 - 35-00 - Open Circuit
That may be causing other oddness re gears. See: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01236

Importantly there's nothing to indicate any gearbox internal problems.

Yeah, when I saw that code I checked and you can move the gear selector out of Park without the footbrake on, so either disconnected or faulty.

Car wasn't driven between scans - just a quick clear to see what appears again before it goes in next week so the codes are known to be current +++

Wasn't there a recall on those switches, might be worth checking that with Audi, might not have been done. ;)

That was for a faulty clip on the cable IIRC, which would act as if the brake pedal wasn't down and refuse to move out of park - I remember getting mine done shortly after getting the car. Defo worth a double check though, as maybe someone has bodged it because of the non-repaired recall fault?

Update
 

The S8 went in to DSAutowerks yesterday, David replaced the F125 switch and showed me the original, it looked horrendous with a 6-8 inch piece of cable used to extend the original cable which had been very badly done, bits of wire, connectors and tape all over the place! Excellent service from David and at a very reasonable price!

All good so far and for 20-30 minutes after collecting the S8 until the "juddering" returned!

As a new owner of both an Audi and an S8 my description would probably not be very accurate so I checked through the forum and the following thread is pretty much the same as my issue:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11766

My only comment is that the issue didn't arise until the fault codes were all cleared recently and whether that is of any relevance at all?

That said, I would be grateful for advice from the forum; as I see it I don't know what the fault is but I am not convinced it is possible to be sure, do I make an assumption and spend, what I expect is, a very large sum of money on a replacement TC, perhaps visit a gearbox specialist or look for other causes?

Many Thanks

Neil

Probably worth getting the gearbox oil level checked / topped up in the first instance. In my case the TC was damaged by low oil, caused by the PO re-sealing the gearbox sump with bathroom silicone just before I got it :mad: On the drive home half the oil escaped through the gaps and trashed the TC.

I fitted a good used TC but they are pretty hard to find unfortunately. A new one from Audi is £1K. You can get rebuilt ones, but I can't vouch for how reliable they are. I'm going to be replacing a rebuilt unit with brand new for someone shortly as the rebuilt one is whining after only 12 months, but I don't know who rebuilt it or how. There may be options from the USA since if anyone knows how to build a torque converter its the Americans! Still investigating that.

If you're brave you can pull the gearbox to change the TC in the car, but personally I drop the engine and gearbox as one and change it on the floor since I find that much easier. Its an 8-10 hour job that way but you can do the cam chain tensioners and oil cooler pipe while its out :)

They used bathroom silicone on their Audi? On a critical part like the trans sump!
It amazes me the cheap fixes some people do. Although in this case its not really a fix.

There was a old thread on here, a lady called Amanda got a super strength torque converter from the USA for her RS6, which uses the same transmission as a D2 I think?

There's probably more info on audisrs and rs246 if you chose to go for an aftermarket torque converter.

There are 2 or 3 different F125 switches with different length cables and connectors, considering that cable has been extended it is possible that gearbox including F125 switch has been swapped in the past and different gearbox put in which might be mismatched either with rear diff or TCU.

So first on the list should be checking fluid level and part number/code on the gearbox and compare it to codes on build sticker and/or rear diff code and TCU part number.

I agree with Ainars, proceed cautiously and carefully and check everything.
I'd definitely get VCDS and scan regularly to see what, if anything, appears after you have any "issues".

Don't jump to conclusions, despite the advice re the F125 switch (*which seems well-founded). ;)