Scottish Independence

[ScottD3]

With tomorrow being the big day for Scottland with their independence vote. I thought it might be nice to try and get a fair view of could happen and peoples thoughts about the whole thing.

I try and stay away from the media in general as they tend to put their own spin on everything and now with each party giving out information to favour the votes in their direction.

What is the main reason for them to break away?

Is it that bad being part of the UK?
Will it be ran like a separate country, france and spain for example?
Are they really wanting to break away from the UK and join the EU?
Main export is oil, what happens when that dries up?
If they do break away will there be enough money for the country sustain itself?

I really have very little idea or understanding of why they are doing this.

My own views with the little information I have, it seems a bit daft and possible fatal for the country if they can't generate enough funds to keep the country going.
Not enough funds, rise taxes, people get poorer, turn to crime, no funds to maintain order and it all just turns to poo.

Which is a shame and I really like Scottland, it helps that most of the people seem really nice.

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by ScottB5

What is the main reason for them to break away?

One for our Scottish residents to answer methinks.

From what I've seen from down here (and my visits to Scotland) I'm mystified.

[The_Laird]

Here's the view from an Englishman living in Scotland:

There are very few undisputed facts on the table - for example, the 'Yes' campaigners say there's loads of oil and the 'No' campaigners say it will run out soon; Yes says they'll be in the EU and use the Pound, but No says they won't....and so on.

BUT, there are 2 main reasons for wanting independence as far as I can see:
1. Scotland feels (and is IMHO) very poorly represented by a Westminster government that gets lost north of Watford.
2. They have been shafted by successive Tory governments (Poll tax, Coal mining, Steel and Bedroom tax for example) and hate them with a passion. But despite the Tories not having a single seat up here, that's who governs us.

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by The_Laird

2 main reasons for wanting independence as far as I can see:

Do you mean these are reasons you observe people (in general) giving or reasons you personally believe?

[The_Laird]

Originally Posted by HPsauce

Do you mean these are reasons you observe people (in general) giving or reasons you personally believe?

Both!

Even when I lived in Leicestershire I felt disconnected from a Westminster government, and that was only 100 miles north.

And the Yes campaigners have quoted these reasons many, many times.

But my personal belief is that independence is not the answer, but more local powers of government (not just in Scotland)is a better solution. Small countries are economically fragile (look at Iceland and Ireland, who used to be the examples that yes campaigners used as models to aspire to).

I believe we are better together BUT that the Westmisnter government needs serious reform

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by The_Laird

Even when I lived in Leicestershire I felt disconnected from a Westminster government

Indeed, and that's where I'm from. And will be there this weekend.

All the points you made apply to huge areas and groups of voters throughout the UK, so why do the Scots think they're different?
And most of them are relatively short-term politics, irrelevant on the timescale of centuries. After all didn't the Scots help vote in a Labour government in 1997 (which is the last time the UK had a Conservative government as we don't have one at present) or have they conveniently forgotten that? And aren't there almost as many Tory voters in Scotland as SNP, just the process gives them no seats?

And as for representation, surely it's the English who have the main grudge - no local parliament or devolved powers whatsoever (unlike Scotland already has) yet largely run by Scots!
And then there's the West Lothian question.................

[Dezzy]

Originally Posted by The_Laird

Here's the view from an Englishman living in Scotland:

There are very few undisputed facts on the table - for example, the 'Yes' campaigners say there's loads of oil and the 'No' campaigners say it will run out soon; Yes says they'll be in the EU and use the Pound, but No says they won't....and so on.

BUT, there are 2 main reasons for wanting independence as far as I can see:
1. Scotland feels (and is IMHO) very poorly represented by a Westminster government that gets lost north of Watford.
2. They have been shafted by successive Tory governments (Poll tax, Coal mining, Steel and Bedroom tax for example) and hate them with a passion. But despite the Tories not having a single seat up here, that's who governs us.

I'm not even going to pretend i understand it. But i do know that there are a lot of anti-English Scots as I’ve worked with them. They hated me and everything i done just because I’m English, almost as if it was something i had done or was in control of, but it seemingly was because of history or just that they have been brought up to hate English I’m not 100% sure. I will say though that i didn't experience any of that when visiting a while ago at the annual meet.

1. Poor representation is country wide isn’t it? Well at least it is in Bideford anyway and I can understand that feeling. I wouldn’t trust any of them, pollititions that is.
2. We have also been shafted by the tory governments but I can add an extra category Shipbuilding, as it has all gone to Scotland all of it, even though there isn’t the capacity to build all of it and a massive injection of cash (£100,000000) is needed to bring the facility’s up to scratch. I still think it could have been shared. Won't the Scottish ship yards be flat out building their Naval ships?

Just out of interest Jim was it any better under Gordon Brown? Obviously being a scot and Labour a complete reverse of what we have now.
I not trying to push any buttons or anything and I really hope it all works out for the best whatever way it goes.

Oh yeah i've been trying to work out how it would work keeping the pound, as i'm a bit thick i just don't get it. If seperation is wanted how will it go down that the Bank of England set the interest rates and the like. Surly it would be the Euro.

[IT]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh yeah i've been trying to work out how it would work keeping the pound, as i'm a bit thick i just don't get it. If seperation is wanted how will it go down that the Bank of England set the interest rates and the like. Surly it would be the Euro.

The currency / financials is my main area of interest / concern. To use the euro, wont they need to re-apply to become part of Europe again

My main mortgage / bank is with RBS and I do wonder how on earth it could convert currency overnight. I dont see how it could, and the only thing that makes sense is the likes of RBS saying they'd immediately relocate to England..... I wish I had more insight into how Europe migrated to the Euro as that must have been the same issue on a far grander scale?

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by IT

the only thing that makes sense is the likes of RBS saying they'd immediately relocate to England

I wouldn't be surprised if that happens anyway, whatever the outcome.

I guess, if there is separation, people will be given a choice where to put their money and whether to convert it to Numpties or whatever is used.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by IT

The currency / financials is my main area of interest / concern. To use the euro, wont they need to re-apply to become part of Europe again

My main mortgage / bank is with RBS and I do wonder how on earth it could convert currency overnight. I dont see how it could, and the only thing that makes sense is the likes of RBS saying they'd immediately relocate to England..... I wish I had more insight into how Europe migrated to the Euro as that must have been the same issue on a far grander scale?

In the event of a Yes vote today, applying to use the Euro is the least likely option. Have a look here, if you want a bit of more detailed analysis,

http://www.theguardian.com/news/real...-keep-sterling

which essentially says that keeping the pound is the best (least worst?) option for both sides of the border in the short term at least - and may require an independent Scotland to compromise somewhat on making some of the promised changes to tax and spending.

And incidentally, the Irish pound/punt (as pointed out in this article..) was linked to Sterling for eighty years after the Irish Republic got it's independence, so it's important to separate political posturing from what's actual possible here