Gearbox service by ZF in Dortmund

[IT]

There is no forum post - we have an email in our inbox offering it to us cheap...

We're getting a lot of queries about gearbox servicing now, and its a tough call to make.

I dont doubt that if a box was routinely serviced from new every 20,000 miles then its sure to last longer, but the owner who pays 50K+ for a car is only going to keep it a year or two and move it on. Whilst its not part of the routine maintenance of the car, then it wont get done in the early years...

So then they are bought second hand with 60K+ on the clock and the million dollar question is - Has the damage already been done?

Also if you did service it every 20K from new, then 8 services by the time it hits 160K and it would cost £1600 at £200 a shot, which is most of the cost of a new box... And whilst Audi are now doing all inclusive service packs, its hardly in their interest to make it more expensive for themselves..

Another school of thought says that if you take a box that has been happy for 100K miles and 'disturb' it by filling it with nice fresh oil, this can reduce the life of the box by disloging sludge that was happily not causing a problem before.

So, the bottom line is - I dont know whether you should do 'frank' or not. He has been done before at 66K, so in theory he's not really due for another 10K at the earliest ?

I assume ZF must have a pretty good idea though, as they do actually make the gearboxes, so perhaps directing these queries direct to them (in your best dutch german dialect!) might yeild us some 'best advice'

I do still strongly believe that Audi are neither best placed to advise, nor service these boxes as they simply dont have enough hands on with them, and I'm not about to start spouting recommendations as I'm dedinitely not a gearbox technician, just an observer seeing a lot of broken boxes....

I'd still love to know why the 4 speed boxes dont break..... ever...... We had one with 330,000 miles on it a few months back...

I hope I am not tempting fate here, but 160k and smooth as glass changes in mine - if it didn't have a 5 on the TIP display, I would think its a 4 speed.
I am definately in the 'ain't broke' zone at the moment..
Watch it die on the way home now..

[jmw748]

For what my opinion's worth, I think Ian is bang on the money. I bought my S8 with over 100K on the clock, zero gearbox problems. Got the best (IMO) service available via CAT and the thing starts misbehaving badly 9 weeks later .
CAT told me about the "disturbing the sealed box" theory and from my experience, this actually happened.
It's back at CAT as of today and I'm waiting to find out the cost - drove it there in Tiptronic and it was faultless, until I kicked down or pulled away from first: she turned into a ghetto gangster hopping suspension thing - quite comical when I wasn't dabbing tears from my eyes. Looks like a primary clutch or torque converter issue.
Graham at Chester Autos sympathizes and says they just rebuilt a ZF box and on finding that it was quite good inside, charged 1200 rather than 2K so fingers crossed.
The recon 'box will be guaranteed for 12K miles or 1 year (not 2 years like some places ), so I'm inclined to ask for them to replace anything that even looks dodgy, knowing that 1675 plus fitting is the "warts n all" cost.
I've asked them to look for any revised/upgraded parts from ZF in the build (noting the changes internally from Ian's thread).


Also, could have sworn I heard the steering pump whine when I was cornering today - hmm, where's Ian's business number.

Priced up cambelt change too (with water pump) and even Audi said "take a breath" to the local Independant -nearly 400 quid in parts before the water pump.

If the gearbox fails again soon, she'll be getting a "hard impact test" for the cogs from the top of Dover cliffs....

I say that, but I drove her faultlessly for 20 mins late last night, sunroof open and that V8 with those quad pipes makes me forgive all her little foibles. I call mine her, because only a woman could be so temperamental, stunning to look at and make me smile whilst draining my money so quickly! Seductive ol' barge - I should declare myself a mug!

The guy that did mine offers 12 month but unlimited mileage warranty. He told me he does get a lot of Audi's in, particularly 8's and large engined 6's.

Total cost was 2400 all in.

He also had a 52 plate S8 in which the guy had left ages ago and was due to be collecting soon ( had been out the country or something). I had a scout round it as expected, Silver with Black, it had quite a lot of corrosion on the black painted bits like windscreen surround and even the little triangular bits at the rear of the rear doors. I noticed a load of quite deep scratches all over the car so it looked like it wasn't a particularly 'cherished' example.

[A8 Doc]

Originally Posted by jmw748

For what my opinion's worth, I think Ian is bang on the money. I bought my S8 with over 100K on the clock, zero gearbox problems. Got the best (IMO) service available via CAT and the thing starts misbehaving badly 9 weeks later .
CAT told me about the "disturbing the sealed box" theory and from my experience, this actually happened.
It's back at CAT as of today and I'm waiting to find out the cost - drove it there in Tiptronic and it was faultless, until I kicked down or pulled away from first: she turned into a ghetto gangster hopping suspension thing - quite comical when I wasn't dabbing tears from my eyes. Looks like a primary clutch or torque converter issue.
Graham at Chester Autos sympathizes and says they just rebuilt a ZF box and on finding that it was quite good inside, charged 1200 rather than 2K so fingers crossed.
The recon 'box will be guaranteed for 12K miles or 1 year (not 2 years like some places ), so I'm inclined to ask for them to replace anything that even looks dodgy, knowing that 1675 plus fitting is the "warts n all" cost.
I've asked them to look for any revised/upgraded parts from ZF in the build (noting the changes internally from Ian's thread).


Also, could have sworn I heard the steering pump whine when I was cornering today - hmm, where's Ian's business number.

Priced up cambelt change too (with water pump) and even Audi said "take a breath" to the local Independant -nearly 400 quid in parts before the water pump.

If the gearbox fails again soon, she'll be getting a "hard impact test" for the cogs from the top of Dover cliffs....

I say that, but I drove her faultlessly for 20 mins late last night, sunroof open and that V8 with those quad pipes makes me forgive all her little foibles. I call mine her, because only a woman could be so temperamental, stunning to look at and make me smile whilst draining my money so quickly! Seductive ol' barge - I should declare myself a mug!

I have a few other theories on the gearbox issues too, ill post later.

But with regards to the cambelt kit, get the full kit from Euro Car Parts for £100. It's not genuine Audi, but it is high quality.

I'd agree on the cambelt - no need to pay past 4-500 all in!

[Goran]

I too am curious as to what makes these auto boxes fail. ZF seemed to have done such a good job.
From Paul's post on audiworld it looks like the torque converter wasnt that bad, and Paul's explanation of auto box operation seems to indicate that torque converters arent really expected to fail?

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1751249

I had my transmission oil changed 3 years ago (at 79,000miles) and its still ok. Does this mean its safe to change it again because nothing got dislodged last time

I have also bought a cheap DGV manual box from Germany 2 years ago, but I have been thinking hard and am mostly concluding that I prefer the auto.
I dont think I could shift as smoothly as the auto does during acceleration, and my other real worry is dropping gear when wishing to accelerate on a motorway, I would have to remember which gears I cant select at certain speeds (first ) and also I would need to know which revs to match it to.
I wish I could keep the auto box but I am almost resigned that its going to fail in the future.

For what its worth I found this advice from a German website:

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/autom...-t2026016.html

One of the posts translates to:

enjoywizo

Ne, is not correct in such a way. The 4-Gang had to be still waited (oil change all 60tkm), with the 5-Gang was according to service schedule the no more planned. In addition the transmission (also the 4-Gang) reacts sensitively to inaccurate air mass and temperature levels. Since these feelers supply unnoticed falsified values with the time, the oil pressure in the transmission is wrongly computed, what increases the wear additionally. The new Tiptronic is thus not more badly - probably however maintenance and above all the air mass measurer (by the way with many Audis slowly steps out).

Recommendation here in the forum:
- ATF changes regularly (best with ZF Dortmund)
- Air mass measurers (LMM) directly along-change (with AUDI in the exchange, approx. 90€)
- Temperature transmitters likewise exchange with each toothed belt change

Then also the 5-Gang holds for a very long time. Automats are built, only evenly not for the eternity quite not if to >400NM lie close.

Greeting

[Conan_the_Librarian]

If you want to shift your manual box I would be interested.

[Just_Ben]

Originally Posted by Conan_the_Librarian

If you want to shift your manual box I would be interested.

[Goran]

Thanks for the offer Conan and Ben, its good to know that someone would buy it.

At the moment I'm thinking about keeping it as a last resort measure, run the auto box to destruction, then go manual rather than fork out £2000 for a auto rebuild.

If only there was some re-engineering solution that could fix the thing in the auto box that fails. Then I could keep the auto box forever
why are Mercedes automatics so reliable?

Ben would you be able to do a manual gearbox conversion on a S8, I'm curious how much it would cost (for the labour)
Thanks