Are Teslas any good?

[tonupkid]

When I look at Audi & Porsche I see words like 'experimental' and 'prototype'
When I look at Tesla I see a car. An actual real working car.

It's great to see a new player shaking up the complacent established marques. A far as I understand it Tesla have not invented any amazing new tech, but they've had the vision to take what was already out there, and use that to create a game changing vehicle.

[Johnmed]

Originally Posted by Goran

"BMW i3 outsold Model S more than 30% in Germany through August"

Surprising! The i3 looks terrible (at least to me) and has really narrow tyres mostly for range, which I think was a bad idea.
Interior looks good though.

I think this is most likely due to the cost of the i3 vs the Tesla. I'd like a Tesla model S, but its a little too pricey, and while the i3 is a lot more affordable a realistic range of 80 miles is just not enough. I often do 60-70 miles a day and I'd have range anxiety driving me crazy if I couldn't plug it in. To pay more for the range extender seems a little silly,..

Matt Farah's and the owner's take on it was informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMohjMQcmOg

[The_Laird]

BMW must have a really good designer to make a car that ugly!

[Singh]

Originally Posted by tonupkid

When I look at Audi & Porsche I see words like 'experimental' and 'prototype'
When I look at Tesla I see a car. An actual real working car.

It's great to see a new player shaking up the complacent established marques. A far as I understand it Tesla have not invented any amazing new tech, but they've had the vision to take what was already out there, and use that to create a game changing vehicle.

People buy a Tesla with the expectation they're taking a punt/trying something new. The expectation for an Audi/Porsche is completely different - it has to work, and be perfect, the technology already exists within Audi, with a battery developed in house. The established brands don't need to be first to market for people to pay attention. Audi have a strategy for all-electric vehicles, watch this space.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by Singh

People buy a Tesla with the expectation they're taking a punt/trying something new. The expectation for an Audi/Porsche is completely different - it has to work, and be perfect, the technology already exists within Audi, with a battery developed in house. The established brands don't need to be first to market for people to pay attention. Audi have a strategy for all-electric vehicles, watch this space.

Really Amar? I'm not sure how you can support any of those statements:

(1)People buy a Tesla with the expectation they're taking a punt/trying something new - what evidence do you have to say this? How many Telsa owners have you spoken to/been in contact with?. The owner group of 200+ that I'm in touch with who have bought these are definitely not "taking a punt" (with > 50k!) - they're nearly all making a personal financial commitment, not having it as a company perk. But maybe you have.

(2) The expectation for an Audi/Porsche is completely different - it has to work, and be perfect. See (1) above. Having seen the comments on the Tesla forum, those who have reserved/bought a Model S are - almost without exception - coming from brands like Audi and Porche (or in a number of cases better ones) to Tesla. Are you suggesting that these (naturally rather picky/particular) people are suddenly changing their behaviour and dropping their standards? I know that I certainly didn't, and from the large number of comments that I've seen from these people, the opposite is the case.

It's also been interesting, for me at least, contrasting the shoddy treatment that I - and some others on this forum - have seen from UK Audi dealerships with Tesla's "bend over backwards"/professional attitude - in the UK at least, which is all I have evidence of. The annual meet, which you weren't at unfortunately, was a very good example of that contrast.

(3) It has to work, and be perfect, the technology already exists within Audi, with a battery developed in house. Where's your evidence for this, other than vague Audi (or Porsche) promises of something which is years away? - Audi have just withdrawn their A8 hybrid, with the open admission from them that it can't compete with the Tesla. As already noted by Tonupkid:

"When I look at Audi & Porsche I see words like 'experimental' and 'prototype'
When I look at Tesla I see a car. An actual real working car.

It's great to see a new player shaking up the complacent established marques. A far as I understand it Tesla have not invented any amazing new tech, but they've had the vision to take what was already out there, and use that to create a game changing vehicle"

I'd love to see an Audi now that could compete with the Tesla, as the competition would be good for everyone, and have the Audi brand values, but it's all promises and vapourware - from them and others.

(4) The established brands don't need to be first to market for people to pay attention. An interesting attitude.

I can remember, as part of past consulting projects, talking to the:
(A) MD of the UK Post Office, who he didn't need to worry about the internet and
(B) Board directors at Polaroid and Motorola who said the same thing about digital cameras and Nokia/Samsung respectively.

What the established brand - and their existing/potential customers - will pay attention to is sales numbers: In April to June of this year (for example) Tesla sold nearly 60% as many Model S's as Audi sold A8's in the UK, and I'm sure that'll get their attention.

(5) Audi have a strategy for all-electric vehicles, watch this space. Great, I'm glad. What is it?
Where is their powertrain/onboard power supply going to come from? How are they going to produce the batteries in enough volume to meet demand? How are they going to ensure they have the charging infrastructure? - are they going to "borrow" Tesla's? Are they confident enough to provide the same 8 year, unlimited mileage warranty on their products as Tesla (and will they then honour it unreservedly, without trying to "pass the buck" ?

I'd genuinely love to know the answers to these and many other EV strategy questions, as it would make their promises more credible.

What I find slightly surprising about your recent contributions on this forum is that most have been on the threads which are Tesla-related (e.g. more posts on this thread than anyone else..), and your posts are nearly all in defence of Audi, which you have a declared self-interest in - though I still remember the good old days when you used to sing the praises of BMWs ..).

As someone who has no association with either manufacturer, but has both an Audi S8 and a Tesla on my drive, I can see strengths in both, and I've enjoyed the comments from others on here, most of whom have actually tried both. Maybe you should too - experience is the basis of wisdom.

[Singh]

TinTin, I'm on my IPhone so am going to struggle to comment on each of your points individually.

Yes, I've commented a lot on the Tesla thread as the whole concept/reality of these electric cars interests me, without looking back, I'm sure I applied 'IMO' to my earlier posts, because I am only expressing my opinion, it doesn't make it gospel, and it isn't intended to offend. I don't *believe* I've ever identified who/where I work, so these opinions really should be taken as just that, mine.

Audi's stance on Tesla can be viewed here, time will tell if they're right or wrong I suppose...

http://youtu.be/tkznti2qfzI

I had no idea you owned a Tesla, but admire you having the balls to do something different. Maybe you can take me for a spin at the next meet, and by the way, I really do try to attend, but have nowhere near the free time I used to anymore sadly.

Oh, and I still sing the praises of BMW, they're second to Porsche in my list of favorites with Audi sat in third. All dependent on model, and all in my personal opinion of course.

[HPsauce]

Interestingly I've just got back home from the Kop Hill Climb, which is quite close to me. http://www.kophillclimb.org.uk/
Some great cars, though a blue 24-litre job (Napier-Railton I think) was particularly noisy!

Couple of Teslas did the run and they were, as expected, spectacularly fast off the line.

My personal favourite was the green LaFerrari (22 JET) belonging to Jay Kay which I watched from beside the steep bit up in the woods.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by HPsauce

My personal favourite was the green LaFerrari (22 JET) belonging to Jay Kay which I watched from beside the steep bit up in the woods.

Ahh…Jay Kay. Last year some one told me I looked like him (it was my cousin, and she clearly needs glasses…). That was a fantasy, as big as me owning a LaFerrari is (can you mix an indefinite article in one language with the definite article in another?). I must admit though, I'd like to see one, or ideally drive one - I've driven other Ferraris, but I think this one might elude me somehow...

[David's8]

Jay Kay?? Is that the author of the wizardy capers or some guy with baggy trousers and and urge to show off his Y-fronts labels. If you look like some rapper and are cooler than a fridge then that is just fine but its a generational thing and it didnt look so cool on John Major. (I am not sure what he drove though)

[Architex_mA8tey]

Here's Audi's E-tron Quattro SUV Concept as just announced - interesting stats and info and it looks like it's pretty close to being production ready. I can't see Audi waiting until 2018 if Teslas SUV is coming out sooner
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=kNSjld2aFZg