Crypto currency mining

[moltuae]

Originally Posted by ainarssems

L3+ is definitely best for now. But if you look at network hashrate for the most popular coin - Litecoin the total hashrate is equivalent to about 57k L3+ so when a lot more L3+ come online or if somebody else releases more efficient machine profitability could drop a lot. By comparison Bitcoin network hashrate is equivalent to almost 800k S9's so if somebody ships 10k units of twice as efficient miner it will hardly make a dent so S9 while less profitable seem like a safer bet. Obviously it also depends on con price and other factors. At the current price at $1265 S9 seems reasonable.

Very good point. And that's probably one reason why the S9 hasn't been superseded in a relatively long time. I suppose the S7, and earlier models, are more like the L3+ in that respect, in that they came out at a time when the market saturation was much lower, making their profitability periods shorter. Thinking about it that way, I suppose buying more S9s could be the better investment. Ideally we need an S10, or whatever eventually superspeed the S9 -- something with a similar efficiency and profitability to the L3+ but that will likely remain profitable for longer.

MiningRigRentals sounds intriguing. I'd be interested to know what results you get if you do try it.

[ainarssems]

I did sign up to miningrigrentals, somebody rented it out for 6hours within half hour of me making it available, while it was not rented it worked as advertised and was still mining on Nicehash. Average payout on Nicehash for last day was 0.0078BTC/GH/day, the cheapest available on miningrigrentals was 0.008289 so I priced mine at 0.0082. Will see how it goes, another thing is that their fee is 3% while for Nicehash for external wallet and balance under 0.1BTC it is 4%.

Don't know what they are mining but it has already found 10 blocks in 20 minutes.

[moltuae]

Interesting.

When I trailed Prohashing (which automatically chooses the most profitable coin to mine) it displayed what was being mined, which was rarely Litecoin. Most of the time it was mining altcoins I'd never heard of.

[ainarssems]

After the first rental finished last night it has been mining on Nicehash, I guess my price was a bit too high. When I checked in the morning average for last 24hrs on Nicehash was 0.0075 and cheapest available to rent on miningrigrentals was 0.0081. I changed price on mine to 0.008 and it was rented out in couple of minutes, this time for 36hrs. They also have automatic pricing option but I have not tried that. For now it seems like it's slightly better than Nicehash 5-6% and then another 1% saved on payout fees. Need to test it for a bit longer to be sure but you set the price it's just a matter of monitoring price on Nicehash and other rigs available for rent.

[ulfilias]

Hi There,

Been curious about Bitcoin/Cryptocurency a few times and have always thought I should have got into this ages ago and then do nothing about it!
Have a feeling that things are on the rise and will continue to rise. Who know's if Bitcoin will be THE currency though. Just looking at net trends, I recall when Altavista or AskJeves were the got to search engines but you'd be daft to use anything but google now, same with social media with Livejournal and Myspace with facebook dominating these days. However lots of people have gotten pretty wealthy from all of those over time and i'm guessing at some point some form of consolidation will take place and holding a few cryptocurencies could really pay off.
I'm an ex-IT sys-admin who used to build and maintain various systems. I've been running a manufacturing business for probably 15yrs, but still a tech geek at heart and am a pretty fast learner when interested. Could become a hobby, could add to the business!

Have read the whole of this thread yesterday and done some looking arround and the UK is a little lacking in sources of equpiment. Can't say i like bitmain pushing bitcoin purchases as buying bitcoin doesn't seem particularly easy atm and the price of them is sky high too (though plenty of growth potential still). Looking at Ebay there's a few things, though reading arround some of the lower purchases (few hundered) which can get you something that'll do a few TH/s (eg sp20 - 1.7Th/s) but some US forums are saying that they wouldn't even turn them on these days!!!

I've got a bit of cash to play with (having already hedged bets with Nutmeg, Property partner, ratesetter, etc) but not quite enough to justify changing my 2005 4.2 sport D3 A8 for an S8 (a little quicker and B&O, but cars loose cash and mine is still nice)....Bank rates are pathetic and i've just locked my mortgage for 5yrs, so definately on the look out for something....But quite what and how???

[moltuae]

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Can't say i like bitmain pushing bitcoin purchases as buying bitcoin doesn't seem particularly easy atm and the price of them is sky high too (though plenty of growth potential still).

It's probably a lot easier to buy Bitcoin than you think. I haven't directly purchased BTC for several months (I'm increasing my holdings mainly through mining and trading altcoins now) but in the past I've always used the UK-based Bittylicious to buy BTC (or ETH). You simply enter the amount you want to buy and one of your Bitcoin addresses, then you'll be prompted with the information you need to make an instant bank transfer. Once the payment is acknowledged and received, you'll usually receive your BTC a few minutes later.

For a quick and easy PC-based wallet, try Electrum. There are better ways to secure larger amounts of BTC, but Electrum is a good one to get started. Have a play with Electrum and post one of your addresses. I'll send you a couple of quid's worth so that you can see how it works.

One common misconception is that it is necessary to buy whole Bitcoins. I've heard people state that Bitcoin is too expensive for them to afford to buy now. The smallest Bitcoin division is called a Satoshi (often abbreviated to Sats). One Bitcoin is equal to 100 million Sats. You could (in theory) buy as little as 1 Sat, though in practice the present transaction fees would make such a small trade prohibitively expensive. You could though, for example, buy a relatively small amount like 0.05 BTC (= 50mBTC or 5 mil Sats), which is a little over £200 worth at today's price.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Have a feeling that things are on the rise and will continue to rise. Who know's if Bitcoin will be THE currency though. Just looking at net trends, I recall when Altavista or AskJeves were the got to search engines but you'd be daft to use anything but google now, same with social media with Livejournal and Myspace with facebook dominating these days. However lots of people have gotten pretty wealthy from all of those over time and i'm guessing at some point some form of consolidation will take place and holding a few cryptocurencies could really pay off.

Indeed, Bitcoin may not be the one that ultimately succeeds in mass adoption and it's certainly worth keeping a diverse portfolio of a number of different cryptocurrencies and keeping a close eye on developments. I think it's inaccurate to compare it to to Altavista, Myspace, etc though. Bitcoin creates a network that is "the internet of money"; its use as currency is just one application. It's probably fairer to compare it the 'Internet Protocol Suite' (eg TCP/IP). Like those standards, it forms a network and foundation for applications, which can use it to develop and evolve. Despite the age of the internet network protocols, most of the early ones are still used today (hell, we're still using IPv4, even though IPv6 was set to replace it about 20 years ago when we began running out of IPv4 addresses). Like-wise, I suspect we'll see Bitcoin continue to exist and evolve for a long time, working along-side (rather than competing with) other cryptocurrencies.

[ulfilias]

Originally Posted by moltuae

It's probably a lot easier to buy Bitcoin than you think. I haven't directly purchased BTC for several months (I'm increasing my holdings mainly through mining and trading altcoins now) but in the past I've always used the UK-based Bittylicious to buy BTC (or ETH). You simply enter the amount you want to buy and one of your Bitcoin addresses, then you'll be prompted with the information you need to make an instant bank transfer. Once the payment is acknowledged and received, you'll usually receive your BTC a few minutes later.

Oh i got that BTC are curently a little large and that they segment down and that you can buy parts. Yet to play with that. Interestingly i've got a Revolut app on my mobile that's great for free international bank transfers, don't think they've got into bitcoins yet, but can see them doing it in the future. Origionally got for travelling, but they've locked free cash atm withdrawls down to £250 recently! Still saved me a fortune buying european festival tickets and buying a projector from ireland in euros!

For a quick and easy PC-based wallet, try Electrum. There are better ways to secure larger amounts of BTC, but Electrum is a good one to get started. Have a play with Electrum and post one of your addresses. I'll send you a couple of quid's worth so that you can see how it works.

Downloaded that last night. Just watched a youtube vid on setting it up and now know the odd collection of letters is an address, which I pm'd as i'm not sure about the wiseness of posting adddresses on a public forum or if i'd be susceptable to random acts of kindness

I also added the app on my phone, but unsure if it's the same wallet as I added extra words in the app (option) and the phone one didn't seem to have that. However learning curve!

Indeed, Bitcoin may not be the one that ultimately succeeds in mass adoption and it's certainly worth keeping a diverse portfolio of a number of different cryptocurrencies and keeping a close eye on developments. I think it's inaccurate to compare it to to Altavista, Myspace, etc though. Bitcoin creates a network that is "the internet of money"; its use as currency is just one application. It's probably fairer to compare it the 'Internet Protocol Suite' (eg TCP/IP). Like those standards, it forms a network and foundation for applications, which can use it to develop and evolve. Despite the age of the internet network protocols, most of the early ones are still used today (hell, we're still using IPv4, even though IPv6 was set to replace it about 20 years ago when we began running out of IPv4 addresses). Like-wise, I suspect we'll see Bitcoin continue to exist and evolve for a long time, working along-side (rather than competing with) other cryptocurrencies.

I was just using well known net progressions rather than a direct comparison (i'm just learning, so my analogise are ropey)
I also get that it's a decentralised currency, so I can't see how any buyouts could happen....Though it's still a little like shares in a company, in my head at least!

I'm looking at hardware at the moment and getting something fair in the UK for bitcoin seems tricky and a high investment to start with (all my PC tech is somewhat old and i'm not a PC gamer). However Scrypt and Litecoin seems a much lower buy in. Those LS3+ look nice, but the whole from China, Waiting, buying in BTC, high price and CUSTOMS is a big initial step (Though there's one+psu on Ebay in the Netherlands for ~£2600).
However there's some Litecoin Gridseed miner 5.2MH/S in France on ebay round the £175. It's about a 100th of the speed but also a 20th of the cost
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Litecoin-G...MAAOSwG2tZ585s

It looks like a fair toe dabble?

Lee

[ainarssems]

And 1/5th of power consumption.

It will generate about £6/month and cost £10/month in electricity to run. Or in other words if you wanted to achieve the same rate as L3+ using several Gridseeds you would need to spend £17k to buy them and spend more than £1k per month in electricity

[ulfilias]

OK....That sounds a bust. Shame as i'd happily buy and play with something like that to get me started!

Any suggestions, Ideally EU based?

[moltuae]

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Interestingly i've got a Revolut app on my mobile that's great for free international bank transfers, don't think they've got into bitcoins yet

You don't need to be able to send international payments to buy BTC (well, not from Bittylicious anyway). You just need to be able to send instant bank transfers (aka 'Faster Payments'). Once you commit to purchase on their site, you're given the bank account details of a UK seller to send the payment to.

In fact, cryptocurrencies are set to make traditional methods of sending international payments obsolete, which can have costly fees and take days/weeks. Cryptocurrency payments are borderless, virtually instant and the fees (if any) are usually comparatively small.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Just watched a youtube vid on setting it up and now know the odd collection of letters is an address, which I pm'd as i'm not sure about the wiseness of posting adddresses on a public forum or if i'd be susceptable to random acts of kindness

I've replied to your PM and sent you a little BTC to play with

Actually it's quite common (on crypto forums at least) for Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrency) addresses to be posted publicly in users' signatures to receive random acts of kindness from users who found one of their posts/replies helpful.

Just to repeat what I said in the PM (for the benefit of anyone else), it's perfectly safe to post your Bitcoin addresses publicly. Without the private keys, all that anyone can do with one of your addresses is either send you a payment or see what payments you've been sent (on that address only). For privacy reasons, you can use a different address for every payment you request.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

I also added the app on my phone, but unsure if it's the same wallet as I added extra words in the app (option) and the phone one didn't seem to have that. However learning curve!

The string of words is your 'seed'. The seed is used by 'Deterministic Wallets' such as Electum to generate your unique private keys (which you won't usually see, unless you specifically request the wallet software to display/export them). The private keys are in turn used to generate as many public addresses as you require and it is the mathematical (or rather, cryptographical) relationship between them that allows the wallet software to use your private keys to prove ownership of the public addresses and therefore request any necessary additions to the blockchain that enable funds to be transferred.

One advantage of using a deterministic wallet is that you only need your seed to recover your wallet, which can of course be a disadvantage too if you don't keep your seed safe. As long as you use the exact same seed, you can use Electrum to access the same funds/addresses on many different devices. For mobile devices Electrum is a bit clunky though. It works but there are better mobile wallets such as Mycelium or Jaxx. For better security it's best to only store smaller amounts on mobile devices though (perhaps no more than you would keep in cash in a physical wallet) and store larger amounts elsewhere, preferably using a dedicated (and normally offline) computer or hardware wallet.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

I'm looking at hardware at the moment and getting something fair in the UK for bitcoin seems tricky and a high investment to start with (all my PC tech is somewhat old and i'm not a PC gamer). However Scrypt and Litecoin seems a much lower buy in. Those LS3+ look nice, but the whole from China, Waiting, buying in BTC, high price and CUSTOMS is a big initial step (Though there's one+psu on Ebay in the Netherlands for ~£2600).
However there's some Litecoin Gridseed miner 5.2MH/S in France on ebay round the £175. It's about a 100th of the speed but also a 20th of the cost
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Litecoin-G...MAAOSwG2tZ585s

It looks like a fair toe dabble?

If you're considering getting started in mining, I think it's better to start small. Just grab a profitable graphics card, install NiceHash, enter one of your BTC addresses and start mining. You won't make any huge profits but you'll get a feel for it with minimal risk. If you decide mining is not for you, there's a good chance you''l be able to sell any graphics cards you bought for an amount similar to what you paid for them.

Mining can be fun and worthwhile but, depending on your situation, it can sometimes make more sense to simply invest in cryptocurrencies. For me, mining makes sense for a number of reasons: I can claim some of the equipment costs as business stock/expenses, I can make use of the heat generated and I (partly) have access to free electricity at my customer's premises (with their consent of course!).