New D4.....

[Singh]

Sorry to hear about the D4, gutting.

I'm also eager to read part two.

However, I am sure if you had the car detailed (forgot the Supagaurd crap) it will come out defect free, detailing and mopping are two different concepts. A guy that mops a car carelessly looks to remove scratches and hazing whilst inflicting loads of swirls, a detailer will treat the car like their own and find defects that you probably couldn't find without the use of a 'sun gun' or similair. It will set you back (or the dealer for that matter) around £500 at least I would say, possibly more but the results would be worth it. Read this thread for more info... I'm sure we can find a decent detailer close to you or the dealer.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=208589

Also look at this

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1092559&type=3

[Tj2k]

Guys, is there anyone who's very near Milton Keynes (Wayside Audi)?

So, I just woke up with a thought. There was another D4 at Wayside Audi, identical to the 1st one that I'd placed a deposit on.

I rung Wayside last night, got the salesman to check the car and ring me back. He rung me back and said it was mint - and asked why. I told him the story. I ended up plcng another deposit down on that car subject to it being identical spec, no damage, few other conditions etc. etc.. So, I said I'd go down this morning to view it but then he says he's got several hand-overs to do, gives me loads of detail etc. but could I make it 2.30pm? so I agreed.

So I've woke up and thought,"he probably does have these hand-overs to do but what if he needs time to give the car to detailer to tidy it up??

I could do with someone locally to wiz over there and take a quick look at it - but obviously locally.

I've no car now and the wifey had plans for our other (million-mile) Mondeo -(which failed its MOT on Wednesday - but original MOT still valid - so technically, we shouldn't be driving it, until next week when it's booked in for its stuff) so I was going down on my bike for 2.30 but, call me paranoid, I'd like to know if that car really is as they said it was

It's a long shot this - but I'd really appreciate the help if anyone's near!

[Tj2k]

So, back to dealer number 1 (This is REALLY long sorry guys - but this is just as it happened - have to split it in to 3-4 parts maybe as it's too long for 1 post!):

Salesman:
"Ok, I'll take you to see the Sales Manager, would you like a coffee whilst you wait?"
Me:
"No I'm fine thanks"
Salesman:
"Please take a seat here, he'll be right with you"
Me:
<10 mins later - some one else asks if I want a drink>
Salesman:
"This is XX, my Sales Manager"
Sales Manager:
"Pleased to meet you - shall we go somewhere quiet?"<Wonder why?>
<we go to his office - younger guy, probably younger than myself and the salesman>"Ok, take a seat, I hear there's an issue with one of our cars"
Me:
"er, yes, almost every panel is littered with scratches, in fact the only panel that seems to be un-marked, surprisingly enough, is the bumper!"
Sales Manager:
"Is it really that bad?, surely it can't be? The salesman tells me you wish to cancel the order"
Me:
"Yes, it is there's scratches in excess of 2 foot long on the car, the car is totally unacceptable and I'm unhappy about having to have a car - have almost every panel abrasively polished in an attempt to remove the damage. I would be at risk of swirl marks coming through. I have had a similar experience on a 55 plate S4 cabriolet in black when that car was less than 2 years old - as this car is now"
Sales Manager:
"Well, maybe we ought to go and look at the car again, as I;m sure it can't be as bad or repairable - I can look at the deal again and I''m sure I could make some kind of financial amendment to compensate for the issue whilst I resolve the issues?"
Me:
"I'm sorry, but the way that car is, I'm totally unhappy with having to have almost every panel polished so as to try to remove the scratches"
Sales Manager:
"I would like the opportunity to resolve the issues for you, <here comes the bit that p*ssed me off> not all out customers are as particular as you..<I politely interrupt him>
Me:
"I'm sorry for interrupting, but could I just explain to you exactly how that just translated to me please?"
Sales Manager:
"Yes sure...?"
Me:
"Here's what I just heard Not all of our customer are as picky as you, most people would not have noticed / complained about such an issue"
Salesman:
<I can visibly see that that has really p*ssed him off (not my intention however - I was just telling him how what he's said to me - had translated to me - as a customer with a genuine issue with their car on delivery) as his tone changed and he was noticeably angry - but I'd hit the nail on the head - anyway read on..." Hang on Mr. XX <he said this early aggressively, raising his tone, which I had not and note - he's now calling by my surname and not, as he previously had, by my first name - so now it's going formal> ... you never let me finish my sentence. What I meant was that most of our customers....<he pauses to gather his thoughts>....well, not all of our customers......<he pauses again>.....XX<dealership name inserted here>Audi has very high standards and.....<another pause for thought but quicker this time>...clearly, you're absolutely right, our standards in this case are way short of the mark - I'm sorry, about my wording there, that it more or less is what I said to you - but look, lets go take a look at the car - do you mind?"
Me:
"Sure"
Salesman:
<Banter as we walk over to the valet bay>
Me:
"Ok, look here on the bonnet, this scratch is well over 2 foot long, how could anyone miss that? Look here there are more scratches all over the bonnet - again every noticeable - admittedly not through to the undercoat - but still excessive"
Salesman:
<Looking guilty>"Hm, yes, I can see those..."
Me:
"Drivers door, scratches around the handle, which to be fair, you might expect owing to getting in and out - I'm not too fused about that - but there are more further down the same panel"
B]Me:[/b]
"Rear drivers side door - see hear - more scratches"
Salesman:
"Yes, I can see those as well"
B]Me:[/b]
"Now, look at the boot-lid!? How on earth could <salesman's name> NOT have noticed these??!!"
Salesman:
"They're really bad aren't they!"
Me:
"Right they are, how has this car been treated - it's an A8 with less than 10k miles, less than 2yrs old! I'm not exaggerating now, my D3 6 year old A8 with 81k on it, was in MUCH better condition than this is!"
Salesman:
"hm.."
Me:
"Look at the rear passenger side door - scratches, marks - look here the rook - several scratches - this one is about a foot long"
Salesman:
"<he's gone quiet now - again, for a change - salesmen are very wordy aren't they normally? "
Me:
"Front passenger door - here and here - see?"
Salesmanager:
"Yes.."
Me:
"Look here on the bonnet..."<right hand side of the car, as you're looking straight at the car>" someone has already tried to remove some scratches as there's a large dull patch here, and look at the leading edge of the bonnet <just above the headlight - same side> what are all these tiny abrasive marks?"
<We both stand back outside the valet bay looking in - then Sales Manager gets keys and pulls car forward into the light>
Salesmanager:
"I've got to be honest with you XX ..."<he's now calling me by my 1st name again>"I would have rejected that car as well - it's not very good is it?"
Me:
"Precisely and I'm not happy having to have every single panel polished - look you can possibly see a swirl mark reflecting in the light now
Salesmanager:
"No, I know exactly what you mean, but that's not a swirl mark - thats actually the paint - to some extent - you will always see that kind of mark even on a new car"
Me:
"Maybe - you're probably right but I've made my point"
Salesmanager:
"Well, to be fair, it hasn't been valeted..."
Me:
"What?"
Salesmanager:
"It's not been valeted so you're seeing it raw. Look, I'd like the opportunity to get the car looking A1."
Me:
"You're missing my point, I'm unhappy with every panel having to be polished - I'm not prepared to accept that on such a vehicle"
Salesmanager:
"The valeters here can't bring those marks out - it has to go to a body-shop - we sub-out our work to an excellent body-shop down the road from here - would you allow me to ring them to see if I can get them to look at the car for you today? Why not take your wife <she's in the Mondeo with our 3 spaniels> there's a restaurant around the corner - have a meal on us and just get a receipt - we'll pay and I'll make a phone call - will you at least allow me to make a phone call?"
Me:
"I'm not happy having to have nearly all of the car abrasively polished - I don't want this car"
Salesmanager:
"Will you at least allow me to make the call?"
Me:
"Well, sure if you need to, I'm going to see my wife"
Salesmanager:
"Ok, I'll catch you shortly..."
Me:
<I walk over to the Mondeo, he goes into the back-door of the showroom>
<Me to wifey>"Well, I'm really p*ssed off, the car is a shambles, practically every panel has significant surface scratches - yes they may all buff out- but I'm just way unhappy to allow them to buff them ALL out - it'll be covered in swirl marks and the finish just won't be as good - what do you think?"
Wifey
"Well, if they repair it, every time you go to wash it you'll potentially see the marks and be reminded of this experience when you came to collect it - and might even think "Why did I accept it - I should have thrown it back at 'em!" don't you think?"
Me:
"Yes, I do, you're right but I want to consider what they might surprise me with and see how that makes me feel. Right, ok, best case scenario, like REALLY best case, they'll maybe say something like "Well, we'll knock a grand off the car and polish it all up so they're all gone and the car is mint" - if they said that to me - would I be happy? I don't think they would say that - but would I be happy - .... No, I don't think I would be - the car is wrong and that just doesn't make the car itself right - plus a week or 2 later, you'll probably see the finer abrasive marks on the car as I did of the S4 we had...No, that's my decision - they can keep it!"
Wifey
"I think you're doing the right thing"
Me:
"Do you want to see it?"
Wifey
"yes" <we walk over to the valet bay>

[Tj2k]

Wifey
"yes" <we walk over to the valet bay>
Me:
<I say hello to the valeters>"Hiya, you don't mind if we take a look do you?"
Valeters:
"No not at all"<there's 3 or 4 of them all lingering around the car talking amongst themselves - actually, looking sympathetic>
Me:
"Sorry about me having a rant, but I'm just really hacked off..."
Valeters:
"Er, well I would be as well"<another valeter>"Yes, it's not been looked after and it's also been chucked through those mechanical car-washers from new as well - the paint's damaged all over the place"
Me:
"Yes - it's unbelievable for a car this age and mileage...have you seen this patch on the bonnet- looks like someone has already tried to rub something out there - see the paint around the rubbed area here is darker - it's about a foot long but 3-4 inches across?"
Valeters:
"Yer, someones tried to rub something out there - not very well either"
Valeters:
<Another guy>"It's been through mechanical car washes and not been looked after at all has it"
Me:
"I agree"

***MISSED THIS BIT OUT FROM WHEN THE SALESMAN WAS LOOKING AT THE CAR WITH ME - SO NOT THE SALES MANAGER***
Me:
Look can you see here on the bonnet, someone has already tried to rub something out and the leading edge of the bonnet above the head-light - it has some fine abrasive marks on it as well - can you see the patch?"
Salesman:
"No I can't see that"
Me:
"Ok, look here between my two fingers"<I place my index fingers of each hand on each end of the patch - about a foot a part from each other clearly marking the patch>
Salesman:
"Sorry, I can't see anything"
Me:
"Well it is there"

[Tj2k]

*** BACK TO VALET BAY WITH THE VALETERS AND WIFEY ***
Me:
"Ok. I'll go tell him, I'll see you later back at the car"

Salesmanager:
<I go back to showroom, wifey goes to Mondeo, I wait 5-10 mins for Sales Manager on the showroom-floor, there are customers around looking at cars - sitting at desks etc.>"Ok, I've rung them, I think we need to get it through the paint and body-shop - look, I'm willing to paint the boot-lid and sort out all the paint issues - will you give me that opportunity?"
Me:
"I'm totally unhappy with the condition of the car, it is in an unacceptable state and I simply don't want the car"
Salesmanager:
"Yes, but I can put all that right for you!?"
Me:
"I'm totally unhappy with almost every panel on that car hang to be abrasively polished - I just wouldn't buy a car where the paint work was as damaged as that - certainly not the most expensive car I've ever bought and so near to new with so few miles"
Salesmanager:
"I just don't understand, I can put these problems right - we've fitted a tow-bar to the vehicle, we've upgraded the Nav Maps <I was paying £1,130 extra for the tow-bar and £180 for the Navigation 2012 map upgrade plus £180 for Supergard>...We've taxed the car and registered it to you - we can put these problems right!?"
Me:
"Not to my satisfaction - look, I think we're going around in circles - I do not want hassle with that car, I do not want, if after a week or two when the wax or whatever wears off, for me to be seeing additional defects or problems such as swirl marks in the paint - and me to be 2.5 Hrs drive miles away from you - I just don't want the hassle nor would I accept a car in that state anyway - I simply
wouldn't.
Salesmanager:
"Well I can get it done - then keep it for a week - not polish it - then see what you think?"
Me:
"You see - more hassle - I'm already without a car - then another week without the car - you do know that I asked the salesman TWICE in WRITING to walk around that car and describe it you me in perfect detail don't you?"
Salesmanager:
"Really?<looking oddly guilty - I think he knew that>
Me:
"YES! I'll show you the emails on my iPhone right now if need be. This was avoidable, this is not my fault - and I simply do not want THAT car. I'm happy for you to source me another 4.2Tdi <though they're now getting very difficult to get hold of, I later found out> but I'm not prepared to take that car <customers are now looking and hearing what's going on - kind of pretending that they're not listening > <I then added>"Look, even if you said to me, right we'll knock off £1k and sort the issues out, which I know you're very unlikely to do, I STILL wouldn't accept this car! - that's how sure I am!"
Salesmanager:
"Well, I've looked at the deal and I can tell you now we won't be doing that"
Me:
"That's not my point - my point is - that even if you did, I wouldn't accept a car that needs every panel repairing - that's how I know"
Salesmanager:
<Ok, so this bit p*ssed me right off>
"Ok well I can see that I'm not getting anywhere with you today and I've got other customers who're waiting to see me - so I'll just have to ring you on Monday, let me get you a card"<he walked off>
Me:
<So I'm thinking - f*ck, this guy doesn't take a hint FFS, I'M A CUSTOMER WHO'S BEEN HERE NOW FOR OVER 2 HOURS, WAS DUE TO SIMPLY COLLECT MY CAR AND GO HOME - WHAT A ***'KING GAME!!>
Salesmanager:
<HE COMES BACK - GIVES ME A CARD AND WALKS OFF!>
Me:
<REALLY P*SSED OFF - I walk out and we go home>

[Tj2k]

Thanks for the well wishes guys by the way.

Count how many times I tell 'em I don't want the car! I lost count at about 4 I think!!

I'm going to email them today and tell them I want my £500 deposit back!

[PsYcHe]

Shocking mate.. really feel for you...

I'd get in touch with Audi head office too, just to make sure you get your money back (or at worst have a formal complaint lodged against the dealer) they can't expect you to splash out best part of 40k for a motor in that kind of state. Sounds horrendous and far too much stress for what should be a straightforward purchase.

[47p2]

Sounds like the dealership doesn't give a hoot as to whether they sell cars or not, what an attitude. I would write a letter to HQ letting them know just how poor the service has been.

To be fair though if the scratches are not through the clear-coat they will come out leaving the paintwork like new, but and it is a big but, you have to make sure the person who rectifies the paintwork knows what he/she is doing as there are plenty out there who will just run over the scratches with a filler based polish which will wash out in a few weeks.

When a car comes off the production paint line there are workers waiting to sand out and polish small blemishes that are on the vehicle, this is normal practise, no different from rectifying and removing some light scratches.

You would need to find a highly skilled car detailer not a valeter whick is a completely different thing

Try the Detailing World forum for more information, there are plenty skilled guys there who could tackle this sort of work

[Singh]

I think Neil (Architex) has an office in Swindon so it may be worth asking him, or maybe James (Mkoneman) he is based in Oxford and you want find a fussier guy then him when it comes to paintwork.
I honestly think you had your S4 'mopped' by a bodyshop or amateur valeter and that has put you off having your car polished, if the car is detailed by a professional detailer - there will be no swirls! That is the one of the main points of detailing to remove swirls/defects. These guys are probably more anal (hehe) then any of us are about our own cars. If the one in MK isn't as good a spec, I am guessing it was your second choice for a reason, and if you are still willing to put business the first dealers way, then it would be worth getting a detailer to go and take a look over and give his opinion, the dealer will pay for the detail of course. It is likely to take two days or more. Honestly, I am confident if the detailer says he can get it looking as per your standard, you will be happy, and there will be no swirls.
These guys use a two bucket wash methods with grit guards, wouldn't use a chammy even on a tyre, use a pat drying method so not to inflict any swirls on the paintwork, the dirt is softened and washed away by way of a snow foam before it is even touched with some deep lush sheepskin wash mitt.
We are all looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the D4, get one bought!

[Tj2k]

Thanks guys. I agree, I think the damage could be removed permanently by an appropriately skilled professional. I just don't have the faith that this dealer has one on tap and even if they did, it's hassle - that I can't be bothered with - they're 2hrs 15mins away from me and I won't be sure that the car is 100% until at least a week after signing up and taking delivery.

Additionally, because the paintwork was so bad, I focused purely on the exterior of the car and merely glanced at the interior so, given the front bumper was perfect and the bonnet has had some "work" near the leading edge (that the valeters could see) I'm a little suspicious it's possibly had a knock. Noting serious but still...looks like it may of had a new bumper or been repainted - which could be for perfectly legitimate reasons.

How has the original keeper treated the car if he/she seemingly didn't give a crap about the paint? How has he / she driven it from new in the wear-in stage? Not that I think there is much of a wear-in stage on the 8 - but still!

The scratches where not only long - but they were wide - they're not the type where you need to look down type panel to see them - or turn a fluorescent lamp to it or see it in sunlight - at one point, I was stood in front of the bonnet and the boot lid was all the way open and I could see all of the damage on the boot-lid from there! They were that bad!

I've also given a deposit on the Wayside car anyways - as they had confirmed interest on it - and that was the only 4.2 Tdi (Exec) around - then there's little to nothing coming through from Audi in the guise I want - "IT" makes a good point - he's right, they're few and far between.

So, I think they can keep it and it's not my problem how much money they've spent on it. Most of the interest on my D3 was around the tow-bar, so I'm certain if they advertise it with the bar, they'll shift it (after the paint is sorted).

Like I say, I do totally agree with you though - especially on the experience with the S4 - if the right guy / company does it - it'll likely be fine but I just don't trust them and I'll have to take it off them to prove that.

What a joke on the Supergard!? I'll bet you Supergard wouldn't be impressed! "We'll put the exterior stuff on and it can dry as you drive home??" FFS!!

They've already got a small history of lies to me already.

Onward with Wayside!