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  #271  
Old 8th February 2021, 12:00 AM
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IT IT is offline
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Biggest problem I see with Tesla is that battery doesn’t come with lifetime warranty and battery replacement isn’t cheap.

In petrol world 5k to 10k will buy you an excellent car and then annual maintenance budget of 2k will keep the car in great shape pretty much forever.
You can drive Audi for 20-30-40 years with 2k p.a. maintenance budget.

One day Teslas will depreciate to 5k to 10k mark, but when battery fails that’s the end of it. It becomes prohibitively expensive.

And that’s fundamental problem of electric cars.
Electric can’t compete with petrol in cheap segment.

Or am I wrong?
I think we will see the death of cheap ICE cars. They are so over engineered now to meet stringent emission's regulations, that bar having a bent tester as a mate, its going to be difficult to keep all these DPFs / EGRs / cats / whatever working as they should - and even then, they are eliminating bent testers through simple stats, so there will be few places to hide.

As it stands, the second hand ICE market is a lottery of hacked, bodged, remapped, de catted, de-dpf'd hotch potch that can lead to some big bills. Or you buy the car new, and weep with the depreciation.

I agree that battery technology isn't proven. But, what is proven, is residuals on old Ev's. you try and buy a 'cheap' second hand EV, and you can't - because they're still great cars, and very desirable. There are Telsas with silly mileage on them, still commanding good money. And why ? Well, because they might have started life with a 250 mile range, and now 'only' do 150, but really, that's more than enough for most people. It really is. I can count with my socks and shoes still on how many times I've ///needed/// to take my Tesla more than 150 miles non stop.

My model 3 has lost less money than any car I can recall in my car history. Its ridiculous. For a long time, it was worth more than I paid for it ! Its in positive equity right now. If I sold it, I'd get cash back for sure.

And what is this annual maintenance you speak of ? 2K ??. + fuel costs + repair costs + tax disk. Are you sure this is only a 5 to 10K car, because the costs seem to be mounting.

I no longer pay for fuel. Well, I do. But honestly its like trying to count how much I spend on drinking water from the tap. Its trivial.

Yes, batteries will hold less charge over time (I've not watched mine closely enough to notice) but they will still be ample for most purposes. None of this 'has it been ragged with cold oil', 'how often was the oil changed', 'did you service the gearbox' - What the heck is a gearbox ? ;-)

It does need a leap of faith to get on this bandwagon. Hats off to Stephen for being the first I've known. He showed me his, and I still had doubts. Only by jumping in the deep end, have I seen the light - and I think any EV owner would concur.

Don't confuse stuffing some batteries and a motor in a regular car, and calling it an EV as being progress. Audi did that and shame on them. I do like quality, I did like Audi - but Telsa are in a whole different league of innovation, and continuous innovation at that. Their build quality isn't Germanic - but its a dam sight better than I was expecting. Very tolerable indeed.

If you want a classic car as a daily, and like tinkering and DIY maintenance. 'Cheap' ICE is still for you, for now.

If you want a new daily driver, then unless you're in a block of flats or have no hope of charging it at home, then really, EV is the way forward.
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The Daily Town Car - 2023 Tesla Model Y Performance. Black with Black. Giant ipad screen, huge sunroof, 4 wheel drive, Tow bar, lots of ooomph and made in China, so actually built properly unlike the Californian ones.

The Family Wagon - 2018 Tesla Model X. Black, 7 Seats, Towbar, Homelink, Enhanced Auto pilot with Summon and self park, Heated front seats, CCS Charger upgrade, MCU2 Upgrade, Falconwing Doors, Self opening / closing doors, Netflix, Spotify, toys, Air suspension, alcantara roof + lots of other stuff......

The 17 year old Driver Wagon 2015 Skoda Citigo Monte Carlo. Alloys, Power steering, Aircon, Leccy windows, Sat Nav, bluetooth, central locking, cup holders, 59 whole bhp. Million times better than my first car. Well jealous.....

The First 20 Audis:

2001 D2 4.2 QS Silver, 1997 D2 S8 Silver, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2002 D2 S8 Dolphin Grey,
2003 C5 RS6 Blue, 1998 D2 S8 Black, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue, 2003 D3 4.2 Ming Blue,
2005 B7 S4 Blue, 2006 D3 3.0 Tdi Black, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2003 D3 4.2 LPG Crystal Blue,
2000 D2 S8 Silver, 2007 3.0 Tdi Q7 Black, 2009 B8 S4 Black, 1998 D2 S8 Agate Grey,
2006 D3 4.2 Tdi Blue, 2006 D3 S8, 2007 Q7 3.0 Tdi, 2006 C6 S6,

The Second 20 Audis:

2011 A7 Sline, 2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2002 A2 1.4 Tdi Silver, 2006 A8 4.2 Tdi Blue,
2007 4.2 Tdi Q7, 2006 S4 Cab Silver, 2010 RS6 Saloon Black , 2007 TT Roadster,
2010 A8 D4 4.2 Silver, 2006 C6 A6 2.7 Tdi Quattro, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue (again), 2008 Q7 4.2 Black,
2009 C6 RS6 Saloon Daytona Grey, 2001 Fully Loaded A2 Tdi, 2006 Avant S6 Black, 2007 VW Caravelle Exec Black (almost an Audi)
2009 TT Roadster Daytona, 2015 Q7 4.2 tdi lava grey, 2002 GmbH D2 demonstrator, 2006 D3 A8 LWB 4.2 Tdi Black

Most Recent Audis:

2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2007 4.2 FSi Q7 ABT Blue, 2016 S5 Coupe Launch model, 2004 S4 B6 Cabriolet, 2016 Q7 Sline White, 2006 Q7 4.2 FSi Black, 2012 Q7 Sline+ 4.2Tdi White, 2008 Blue Audi S8

Everything Else

1989 Subaru Justy, 1986 Vauxhall Cartlton 2.0 GL, 1985 Vauxhall Carlton 2.2 CDi, 1987 Ford Sierra XR4x4, 1983 Vauxhall Senator, 1985 Vauxhall Senator 3.0i, 1997 Polo Saloon, 1997 Peugeot 306 1.9 TDi, Ford Sierra Sapphire 2000E, 1990 Subaru Justy, 2000 Subaru Impreza, 2000 Subaru Impreza RB5, 1993 Range Rover LSE, 2005 VW Bora, 2003 Skoda Superb, 2003 VW Passat V6 4 Motion, 1996 Peugeot 106, 2000 Range Rover 4.0, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
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  #272  
Old 28th February 2021, 11:37 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Default Teslas any good?

Yes, but Hyundai are a pretty close second, and the Ioniq 5 is really rather nice:

https://youtu.be/LCktPB_XewM
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Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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  #273  
Old 3rd March 2021, 02:06 PM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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A review of the Etron GT here from Jonny Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocR-BIWFEv4

He seems to quite like it.
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  #274  
Old 30th March 2021, 01:43 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Interesting article I'm reading in the latest issue of New Scientist, about "Mechanical Batteries".
Basically an array of flywheels, but the researchers working on them reckon they can get better energy/mass ratio than Lithium-ion.
No issues of mining rare materials or chemical degradation after a number charge/discharge cycles.
And potentially, depending how managed, is capable of delivering very large short-term bursts of power, so it's the US military are leading this.

Could be interesting, due to gyroscopic effects, in as moving vehicle though....

And with a suitable "charger" can probably be refreshed fairly rapidly too.
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2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!) Oh, and a brand new engine at just under 30,000 miles on the factory one!
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
And before that a lot of Rover 800s, a few oddities, a lovely Triumph Dolomite 1850HL with Overdrive and way back in my schooldays an Austin Seven aka Mini 850!

Last edited by HPsauce; 30th March 2021 at 01:46 PM.
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  #275  
Old 30th March 2021, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Interesting article I'm reading in the latest issue of New Scientist, about "Mechanical Batteries".

Could be interesting, due to gyroscopic effects, in as moving vehicle though....
This video on YouTube popped up on my recommend list a couple of months ago. Interestingly, there is mention made of the Audi R18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X2U7bDNcPM
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Sold! 2008 S8 D3 5.2 V10 - Engine: BSM, Gearbox:KLW, Colour:LY7F Suzuka Grey Pearl Effect, Interior:Black/Black with Silver/Black valcona leather with carbon atlas inserts, Bang & Olufsen, Heated windscreen, Soft-close doors, TV, DAB, AMI, Quad Zone, Auto Boot, Auto dim Mirrors, Keyless entry, PDC with rearview camera, AFS II Headlights

My DIY jobs - Fan Jet Windscreen Washers, Retrofitted Electric Side Blinds
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  #276  
Old 18th August 2021, 08:37 PM
ainarssems ainarssems is offline
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Have been looking at buying a new car, well not new but another and I do not like what I see for the prices that are being asked. So I have been expanding my search to include brand new Leaf and now also considering used Model S. They are still very expensive starting from £25k and 4wd from £30k. With that kind of money it would have to be 4wd and real make or brake question is does it come with transferrable free supercharging and how to easily find out for each car. If I can get free SC it does make sense for me to buy one. I understand that on 2017+ cars free SC are not transferrable but how to tell for earlier car?
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  #277  
Old 18th August 2021, 09:34 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainarssems View Post
Have been looking at buying a new car, well not new but another and I do not like what I see for the prices that are being asked. So I have been expanding my search to include brand new Leaf and now also considering used Model S. They are still very expensive starting from £25k and 4wd from £30k. With that kind of money it would have to be 4wd and real make or brake question is does it come with transferrable free supercharging and how to easily find out for each car. If I can get free SC it does make sense for me to buy one. I understand that on 2017+ cars free SC are not transferrable but how to tell for earlier car?
2017 is the cut-off date for transferable supercharging -I'd have to double check exactly when - and the easiest way is to ask the seller. They should be prominently advertising this, as it's a major selling point. If they don't know, then Tesla should be able to tell you from the VIN number (on the drivers side of the windscreen).

The other key points to bear in mind are (fairly obviously, probably...):
Questions:
1) how much of the battery/drivetrain warranty is remaining (it's 8 years/unlimited mileage)?
2) has the centre screen/MCU been replaced already?

Considerations:
A) the increasing value of lifetime free supercharging, where available: some (lots!) of Tesla - and other - EV owners are starting to grumble about increasing EV charging rates, both at Tesla SuCs and other chargers. The consequence of that will be that cars with transferable free supercharging will hold their value/be worth more as this trend continues.
B) the low running cost, other than "fuel", of these cars. Once you've bought it, the running cost is comparatively minimal.

I hope this helps - the bad news is Tesla production is already sold out until 2022, and for that reason it's harder than usual to get hold of used stock, as those who want a Tesla this year are having to trawl the used market: Mark/Moltuae's lovely P100D found a new home almost instantly, so it may be hard to find one at a good price.
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Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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  #278  
Old 18th August 2021, 11:36 PM
ainarssems ainarssems is offline
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It would have to be early 2014-2016 car for me anyway to be cheaper and also has to have free SC. I see a lot of them does not have free SC advertised. Not sure if they do not have it, not transferrable or it's lack of knowledge or just forgotten to mention. I am hoping some dealers does not know what they are selling so if it's not advertised but has free SC I might get better value deal.

Any comments on this?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...very-option=on

Edit: Never mind, looks like they recycled advert and but did not change title, car is actually rwd. Seemed too good to be true for P85D

Are the extra 2 seats foldable or easily removable when not needed?
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Last edited by ainarssems; 19th August 2021 at 02:16 AM.
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  #279  
Old 19th August 2021, 10:33 AM
tintin tintin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainarssems View Post
It would have to be early 2014-2016 car for me anyway to be cheaper and also has to have free SC. I see a lot of them does not have free SC advertised. Not sure if they do not have it, not transferrable or it's lack of knowledge or just forgotten to mention. I am hoping some dealers does not know what they are selling so if it's not advertised but has free SC I might get better value deal.

Any comments on this?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...very-option=on

Edit: Never mind, looks like they recycled advert and but did not change title, car is actually rwd. Seemed too good to be true for P85D

Are the extra 2 seats foldable or easily removable when not needed?
Yep, it's a P85, not P85D, although some early adopters prefer the RWD's handling, as it's a bit "livelier" , - but also slower with only the one motor. I'm pretty sure that the extra 2 seats disappear into the underfloor space and aren't easily removable.
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Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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  #280  
Old 19th August 2021, 10:35 AM
tintin tintin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin View Post
Yes, but Hyundai are a pretty close second, and the Ioniq 5 is really rather nice:

https://youtu.be/LCktPB_XewM
I test drove an Ioniq 5 on Tuesday, and was quite disappointed, so can't see me switching from Tesla anytime soon.
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Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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