A8 Parts Forum  

Go Back   A8 Parts Forum > General Natter > Daily banter

Daily banter For everything, and anything that doesnt fit in elsewhere

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th February 2018, 03:07 PM
Conquistador's Avatar
Conquistador Conquistador is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,306
Default Legislation puts brakes on the D5's 'Level 3' autonomous tech

From Fleet News magazine:


Audi is ready to sell the world's first 'Level 3' autonomous car, the A8 luxury saloon, but it cannot enable the self-driving features in the UK due to current legislation.

The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control.

The use of this technology is currently prohibited by Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, which states: "No person shall drive or cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road is he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead".

In it's recent consultation, 'the Pathway to Driverless Cars: Proposals to Support Advanced Driver Assistance Systems and Automated Vehicle Technologies', the Centre for Connected and Autonomous Vehicles at the Department for Transport (DfT) sought to amend Regulation 104.

Yet in another consultation (Remote Control, Parking and Motorway Assist: Proposals for Amending Regulations and the Highway Code), the DfT decided to only amend regulations to allow the use of remote control parking systems.

A spokesperson at the DfT told Fleet News: 'A programme of regulatory reform will ensure the safe arrival of automated vehicles. In addition, as announced in last year's Industrial Strategy, we are carrying out a three-year project with the Law Commission to set out proposals for a long-term regulatory framework for self-driving vehicles.'

The DfT also stated that Level 3 technology is not 'explicitly prohibited' but said drivers must obey all current laws when driving any car equipped with an advanced driver assistance system - which, in effect, confirms they can't be used on public roads.

Chancellor Philip Hammon outlined the Government's ambitions to introduce self-driving cars on the UK roads by 2021 in his Budget speech, although this will initially only allow for testing of driverless cars. The German Government has changed its regulations already, to allow the use of Level 3 systems, making it the first market to benefit from the A8's self-driving ability.

Audi expects to roll out the Traffic Jam Pilot system in the UK from 2019. 'It sounds like the Government has only just started ramping up discussions about autonomous cars bur it isn't just about infrastructure and road conditions', said Dan Marsh, product manager for the Audi A8. 'Liability has not been decided yet. It the car drives by itself then there are still a few things to overcome. The technology is there, it's just waiting on legislation', he added.

Audi's system works by using a collection of sensors that scans the car's surroundings. The central driver assistance controller is a high-speed computer which collates the data to continually produce an image of the surroundings with the help of data from radar sensors..

Later this year Audi will introduce its smartphone remote parking feature in the UK which allows the driver to exit the vehicle and remotely activate the car's self-parking system. The car will also be able to move itself in and out of a garage by remote control.

Marsh Said: 'It is really important for us. We are the first manufacturer with a production car to have these features and we want to capitalise on that. It would mean a lot for us to bring that to market first. AI and the Level 3 technology is the unique selling proposition of the car. We want to get that out to market as soon as possible.'

Currently the new A8 features Level 2 autonomous features as standard. Its Adaptive Cruise Assist combines Lane Assist and Adaptive Cruise Control which can effectively drive the car in most conditions. However, the system will disengage if the driver lets go of the steering wheel.

Marsh confirmed that he is working to create an option package which will combine the autonomous features, once available, to make it easier for customers.


__________________

Aqua Blue Pearl S8 / Kamut beige leather, ACC, B&O, RSE,
solar sunroof, electric blinds, ski bag, Homelink, comfort
headrests. Hunting a beige fridge!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15th February 2018, 05:27 PM
tintin tintin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2,562
Default Interesting...

...given that my Tesla does all of this already (and has done for around 18 months.... ) .

Perhaps the difference is that Audi says it - rather than the driver - will be responsible when autonomous driving is activated?
__________________

Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) Tesla Model S: (85D). Silent and deadly, and very, very fast...
(2) 2003 D2 S8 Final Edition:Bulletproof and faultless: Ebony Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times annual winner of Best D2 1st prize forum trophy
(3) Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15th February 2018, 05:33 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: About 250m from HS2!
Posts: 6,626
Default

Hmm, not so sure, isn't Tesla a "Level 2" system, Audi claim to be first at Level 3?
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation".
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th February 2018, 06:18 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Hmm, not so sure, isn't Tesla a "Level 2" system, Audi claim to be first at Level 3?
This.

The D4 does everything listed also, but you still have to keep your hands on the wheel and your wits about you.

D5 you don't.

Tesla maybe more relaxed in its interpretation of "level 2", but still make it clear its the drivers fault if or when it all goes wrong!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th February 2018, 06:49 PM
tintin tintin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2,562
Default

Here's the key text (though with fleet news, you can't really be sure they've got their facts right - they can't even spell simple words like "task" FFS! - or was that the fault of the Audi Marketing copywriter (emphasis added...)

"The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks(!!) in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control"


A Tesla does all these things and if anything they are being more modest about what their cars can do (hence the claimed "level 2"), and don't resort to artificial stunts like demo'ing autonomously driven cars which have been pre-programmed on pre-determined routes, unlike Audi.

Only one manufacturer has practical levels of autonomy now, the others just promise or make excuses for why they haven't
__________________

Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) Tesla Model S: (85D). Silent and deadly, and very, very fast...
(2) 2003 D2 S8 Final Edition:Bulletproof and faultless: Ebony Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times annual winner of Best D2 1st prize forum trophy
(3) Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th February 2018, 07:57 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin View Post
Here's the key text (though with fleet news, you can't really be sure they've got their facts right - they can't even spell simple words like "task" FFS! - or was that the fault of the Audi Marketing copywriter (emphasis added...)

"The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks(!!) in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control"


A Tesla does all these things and if anything they are being more modest about what their cars can do (hence the claimed "level 2"), and don't resort to artificial stunts like demo'ing autonomously driven cars which have been pre-programmed on pre-determined routes, unlike Audi.

Only one manufacturer has practical levels of autonomy now, the others just promise or make excuses for why they haven't
LOL - hence are you saying that your car is illegal!?

Quote:
The use of this technology is currently prohibited by Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, which states: "No person shall drive or cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road is he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead".
Of course not, with the key difference is that Tesla still say the driver is in control when Autopilot is on- Audi are positioning that in the D5 the car is in control when driven autonomously.

If a Tesla crashes while using auto pilot, the driver is at fault. If a D5 crashes whist being driven autonomously, Audi are at fault

BTW - the Volvo system is pretty good also, my next A8 will probably actually be an XC90
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th February 2018, 08:41 PM
briang9's Avatar
briang9 briang9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,471
Default

Maybe just me but not sure why one would want all this in the first place, call me old school but I actually enjoy driving...all part of the fun of car ownership I think
__________________



Audi S8 2002, Black (even the chrome bits)
Audi RS6 Avant 2008, Daytona Grey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th February 2018, 09:08 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briang9 View Post
Maybe just me but not sure why one would want all this in the first place, call me old school but I actually enjoy driving...all part of the fun of car ownership I think
Agreed , much of the time

But not on the M62(M1, M6, most city roads) at 08.30 or 17.00 on a week day, then I don't find much enjoyment
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th February 2018, 09:42 PM
tc4332 tc4332 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,697
Default

Agree with you Paul.
M60
__________________
Ray at Wigan Pier
2004 A8 D3 3.0 TDI.
Ebony Pearl Black (with little bits of other colours and glitter), Auto dim mirrors
Added AMI, two Aux inputs and RSE output to TV Tuner, Dash camera, non OEM Tyre Pressure monitor, full Trups LED lights, Xenon HIDs in Dip headlights (by Trups), non OEM Reversing camera, swapped TV Tuner to a Hybrid, Puddle light projectors, DRL's (auto dim with sidelights) fitted in foglight grills. DAB radio with replaced Audi aerial.



In progress, Rear Seat Entertainment.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15th February 2018, 10:33 PM
tintin tintin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrstaylor View Post
Agreed , much of the time

But not on the M62(M1, M6, most city roads) at 08.30 or 17.00 on a week day, then I don't find much enjoyment
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc4332 View Post
Agree with you Paul.
M60
And I agree with both of you (and Brian too): 90% of my miles in the Tesla are driven with my hands nowhere near the wheel (because it'd be a waste of time...) - whether that be on the M1,5,6,8, 42,60,61,or (heaven forbid...) the 25 or 62.

But: when I want to drive it, I can - and that's when it becomes a real driver's car, with AWD, a ridiculously low centre of gravity (no great bit lump of heavy metal spoiling that ), and instant acceleration and power delivery. No regrets, never going back again
__________________

Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) Tesla Model S: (85D). Silent and deadly, and very, very fast...
(2) 2003 D2 S8 Final Edition:Bulletproof and faultless: Ebony Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times annual winner of Best D2 1st prize forum trophy
(3) Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.