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  #11  
Old 7th November 2017, 01:34 PM
Lee S Lee S is offline
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Originally Posted by mattylondon View Post
It may be fully legal....
and therein lies the rub !!!
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  #12  
Old 7th November 2017, 01:49 PM
Audidothat Audidothat is offline
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and therein lies the rub !!!
Yep, Legality v Morality.
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  #13  
Old 7th November 2017, 01:52 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Say what you want about the EU, they are focused on the citizen rather than big business and are trying to implement a Europe wide corporation tax and putting an end to all the double Irish Dutch sandwich loopholes.
Dead right - it's no coincidence that many of these loophole jurisdictions are UK-dependent territories that are exploited by either UK/US corporations or wealthy individual or businesses from outside Europe. In the main, attitudes in major European countries (i.e. not Lichtenstein/Monaco ) to this sort of behaviour are far less tolerant, and quite rightly so.
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  #14  
Old 7th November 2017, 02:19 PM
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A very interesting topic of discussion, with some excellent comments and some things that I can relate to.

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Originally Posted by tintin View Post
It's rare these days - almost unheard of - for people to publicly talk about the value of supporting others or of society in general.
I've noticed this lack of support through instances with my nephew. Since he was a teenager, he's been working on building sites. Just over a year ago, he decided he would go out on his own, and the reaction from his peers was... hatred. He was clearing a large farm site and one of the building had asbestos roofing. He had gone through all the proper training and got the qualifications for removing it. Literally a day after completing it, someone reported him for dumping asbestos. The site was sealed off while a detailed inspection of all the land was carried out.

Another less serious incident, but still shows the mentality of people. His cousin also works on a building site, driving a teleporter. Most of drive around in battered old cars full of tools and all the crap of the day in them. He meanwhile scrimped and saved, and bought himself a fairly new Merc. Nothing flash, but still a significant change. All he got from his 'friends' has been nothing but criticism.

As tintin said, no one seems to care about anyone but themselves anymore.

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Originally Posted by 1781cc View Post
As for the comments about getting clean water. All of us could be more charitable and help the poor more. Who needs more than one car? several of us have more than one car, what about selling a car and donating that money to a clean water charity?

Thought as much
So far as being more charitable, I think it's the multi-national companies raking in billions that need to be more charitable. I reckon the man in the street, or the man with two cars already does enough for charities, except they don't do it for the advertising or the tax deductions they can get. Most of us on here have worked our nuts off to buy the cars we drive, even if they are 10 or more years old. I know I'd like a D4 S8, but chances are that I won't be able to afford one for another 10 years.

The drinking water is a good example. There have many ads on TV asking for donations to provide clean drinking waters to people in developing countries, and it's the man in the street that does the donating. Contrast that to what the chairman of Nestle said when he proposed that all water should be privatised. A basic human right that everyone needs to survive, and we have a company with a turnover of 65 billion dollars that wants to privatise water, so they can sell it to you in a bottle.

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Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
I just couldn't work out then why they were so willing to bankrupt my little business when Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Vision Express, Mcdonalds and the likes are ok not to pay theirs.
Exactly, the same government that hunts you down for every penny you owe them, no matter what the outcome to you, whilst at the same time allowing companies like Google, Amazon, Starbucks and the like to make billions, and not pay any tax at all. I've even read somewhere of some of these companies receiving tax refunds.

An example I just read about last night, which I've heard of similar circumstances before, and also one that I've been at the wrong end of, the thorny issue of child support. In this instance, we had a father who was paying child support, but for whatever reason, he fell behind in his payment. The result, he received a letter demanding immediate payment... of 5cents. That's roughly 2p for us.

We live in a society controlled by greed. Greed whereby governments impose tax after tax on those less able to afford it, whilst grovelling to the multi-nationals and offering them incentives to set up shop here. And when questioned about it, they talk about how much revenue comes into the country as a result and how much better off the country is as a result. I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't seen any prosperity brought about by not taxing those who can afford it.

Apologies if my response is a little 'heated', but it's one of those things that gets to me.
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  #15  
Old 7th November 2017, 02:55 PM
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The hypocrisy of Bono, the odious worm, can't be a surprise to any of us but some news articles are painting a picture of the Queen sitting with her calculator working out where she can save a few per cent here and there which is ridiculous, of course she hasn't had personal involvement in this. In fact I think I'm right in saying that the Duchy of Lancaster is not subject to tax anyway but has voluntarily paid capital gains tax and since the early 90s, although sometimes a pitiful amount.

As for Lewis' jet, his company (registered in BVI) bought it for just under $27m in 2012. Thanks to the leak, we know that Appleby formed a VAT-registered leasing business on the Isle of Man for Lewis. That company leased the jet from the BVI-registered company and imported it to the Isle of Man. It was then leased again to a UK jet management company that provided Lewis with a crew - and which leased it back to Lewis and his Guernsey company, BRV Limited. All these transactions are seen as 'commercial' so they are eligable for a 100% VAT refund when the jet lands in the Isle of Man. The VAT bill in this case was £3.3m, paid on Lewis' behalf by an Isle of Man accountancy firm. So when the aircraft landed, the customs official simply skipped out the terminal and stamped a VAT-paid form to be kept on board the plane. This grants the plane “full and free circulation” throughout the EU. As soon as the VAT form is stamped, the plane can fly out.

Leasing documents in the leak show that Lewis' Guernsey company, BRV Limited, expected to use the plane two-thirds of the time, with him signed up personally to use the other third. EU and UK VAT rules state that refunds should not be granted in relation to private use of aircraft – but Lewis got a full refund because of the above web of companies and transactions. Companies that simply use planes for business are entitled to a VAT refund, but private individuals are not.

Morally wrong to most of us but all legitimate. As soon as one loophole closes, a decent tax planner will find another mysterious loophole to make the most of. You have to ask yourself, if you were an ultra high earner with £millions of assets, would you do the same? I know I would.
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Last edited by Conquistador; 7th November 2017 at 03:00 PM.
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  #16  
Old 7th November 2017, 03:52 PM
mattylondon mattylondon is offline
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Originally Posted by Lee S View Post
and therein lies the rub !!!
The rub won't be solved until every country agrees to the same rules. So in reality it's never going to stop and there will be undercutting until it's a race to the bottom. It's unsustainable and a country costs X to maintain all the services. Or do we want a country with no state services or benefits, no safety net for the ill, unemployed, no maternity leave, where it's dog eat dog and everything is PAYG. Personally I feel that makes for a poorer society with such inequalities.
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  #17  
Old 7th November 2017, 04:33 PM
Audidothat Audidothat is offline
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Or do we want a country with no state services or benefits, no safety net for the ill, unemployed, no maternity leave, where it's dog eat dog and everything is PAYG. Personally I feel that makes for a poorer society with such inequalities.
Having lived there, I think that place is called the USA.....
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  #18  
Old 7th November 2017, 08:29 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Originally Posted by mattylondon View Post
The rub won't be solved until every country agrees to the same rules. So in reality it's never going to stop and there will be undercutting until it's a race to the bottom. It's unsustainable and a country costs X to maintain all the services. Or do we want a country with no state services or benefits, no safety net for the ill, unemployed, no maternity leave, where it's dog eat dog and everything is PAYG. Personally I feel that makes for a poorer society with such inequalities.
Quote from Mel Stride (Conservative Treasury Minister) on C4 news this evening: "Tax should be due where the economic activity takes place" - a pretty simple principle: it's just a pity that the UK and US governments don't apply this principle seriously, due to the influence and lobbying by businesses that stops this.
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(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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  #19  
Old 7th November 2017, 10:11 PM
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The_Laird The_Laird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conquistador View Post
Morally wrong to most of us but all legitimate. As soon as one loophole closes, a decent tax planner will find another mysterious loophole to make the most of. You have to ask yourself, if you were an ultra high earner with £millions of assets, would you do the same? I know I would.
And that's what will divide this debate. Even on my (now ceased) relatively insignificant income, I paid my taxes through PAYE and donated and raised significant sums for many charities. If I were exceptionally wealthy, of course I would look after my family first, but this level of wealth and greed, IMHO, is a moral disgrace. So, no, I would not behave in a similar manner. Why would you want to cheat less fortunate people from basic health, education and a very basic standard of living in order to maximise a level of wealth that is very difficult to imagine (and difficult to spend!).
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  #20  
Old 7th November 2017, 10:26 PM
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The_Laird The_Laird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee S View Post
and therein lies the rub !!!
A whole load of things used to be legal: slavery; raping your wife; burning so called witches; apartheid. Legality is no guide to morality. These super-rich people are bleeding our civilisation and the rape of the working classes will, ultimately, lead to its decline.
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2002 Final Edition S8. Ebony black with Silver Grey leather and myrtle wood trim.
Current mods: solar sun roof, 20mm rear spacers, 15 mm on front, red brembo callipers, 6k headlights, rear view camera, engine remap, alloy dash dial rings, alloy navi rings, tt/phaeton pedal upgrade, (and custom matching foot rest) dension ipod interface & parrot hands free kit (both fully hidden), av input, tv in motion switched thro' PF switch in blanking plug right of steering column, Audi 'quattro' sill covers, repositioned centre console switches, radio clock, .
Planned mods: auto-dimming rear view mirror, dash cam (as steamship's), fit the ski hatch, refit philips drl's (or maybe not - nope, definitely not - horrible botch!).

Last edited by The_Laird; 8th November 2017 at 07:34 PM.
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