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Old 18th September 2014, 10:14 AM
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moltuae moltuae is offline
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Question [SOLVED] Audi S8 2002 - Can't unlock using key

Hi guys,

This issue is puzzling/concerning me. Has anyone come across this before or get any ideas what the cause may be? ...


My car is an Audi S8 2002 (Final Edition, D2).


Problem: I can lock but not unlock the car using a key, from either the driver's door or the boot/trunk.
(regardless of whether the car was locked using a key or a fob)


Things I've checked:
  • Lock and unlock using the Remote key fobs works.
  • Lock and unlock using the internal door switch works.

Which initially led me to think the problem must be a faulty door lock switch, but here's the strange thing ...
  • When attempting to unlock the door with the key, even though the car doesn't unlock, the interior lights come on.
  • And even stranger; if the ignition is switched on, using another key, the car can be locked and unlocked using a key in the driver's door.


Now I recently coded a few more key fobs, using VAG COM (which worked fine), but I've never really had the need to unlock the doors using the key, so I don't know whether it's something I've screwed up with VAG COM or whether it's always been like this. Either way, it concerns me that if there were a problem with the remote key fobs in future, I would have no way to unlock the car.


Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated

Last edited by moltuae; 14th October 2014 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Problem Solved
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  #2  
Old 18th September 2014, 10:36 AM
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Interesting.

I was 99% sure that the key unlock in the drivers door, and boot for that matter are entirely mechanical. They are designed to operate with a flat battery, so, if the key fits, and turns, it should open regardless....

Once the door is opened, you have to put the key, with the immobilser chip in the ignition within 15 seconds to disable the alarm from going off.

This is the whole design of the small black wallet key.....

Its interesting that you can lock, but not unlock. I didnt think the D2 had any sort of deadlocks, so maybe there has been some sort of physical damage to the lock ?

With power, when you turn the key in the lock, it makes contact which then activates the central locking pump, interior lights etc. If the electrical contact for 'unlock' was broken, I could see how only the drivers door would unlock and nothing else when you used the key, but I cant understand how the mechanical lifter wont lift.....
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The Daily Town Car - 2023 Tesla Model Y Performance. Black with Black. Giant ipad screen, huge sunroof, 4 wheel drive, Tow bar, lots of ooomph and made in China, so actually built properly unlike the Californian ones.

The Family Wagon - 2018 Tesla Model X. Black, 7 Seats, Towbar, Homelink, Enhanced Auto pilot with Summon and self park, Heated front seats, CCS Charger upgrade, MCU2 Upgrade, Falconwing Doors, Self opening / closing doors, Netflix, Spotify, toys, Air suspension, alcantara roof + lots of other stuff......

The 17 year old Driver Wagon 2015 Skoda Citigo Monte Carlo. Alloys, Power steering, Aircon, Leccy windows, Sat Nav, bluetooth, central locking, cup holders, 59 whole bhp. Million times better than my first car. Well jealous.....

The First 20 Audis:

2001 D2 4.2 QS Silver, 1997 D2 S8 Silver, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2002 D2 S8 Dolphin Grey,
2003 C5 RS6 Blue, 1998 D2 S8 Black, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue, 2003 D3 4.2 Ming Blue,
2005 B7 S4 Blue, 2006 D3 3.0 Tdi Black, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2003 D3 4.2 LPG Crystal Blue,
2000 D2 S8 Silver, 2007 3.0 Tdi Q7 Black, 2009 B8 S4 Black, 1998 D2 S8 Agate Grey,
2006 D3 4.2 Tdi Blue, 2006 D3 S8, 2007 Q7 3.0 Tdi, 2006 C6 S6,

The Second 20 Audis:

2011 A7 Sline, 2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2002 A2 1.4 Tdi Silver, 2006 A8 4.2 Tdi Blue,
2007 4.2 Tdi Q7, 2006 S4 Cab Silver, 2010 RS6 Saloon Black , 2007 TT Roadster,
2010 A8 D4 4.2 Silver, 2006 C6 A6 2.7 Tdi Quattro, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue (again), 2008 Q7 4.2 Black,
2009 C6 RS6 Saloon Daytona Grey, 2001 Fully Loaded A2 Tdi, 2006 Avant S6 Black, 2007 VW Caravelle Exec Black (almost an Audi)
2009 TT Roadster Daytona, 2015 Q7 4.2 tdi lava grey, 2002 GmbH D2 demonstrator, 2006 D3 A8 LWB 4.2 Tdi Black

Most Recent Audis:

2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2007 4.2 FSi Q7 ABT Blue, 2016 S5 Coupe Launch model, 2004 S4 B6 Cabriolet, 2016 Q7 Sline White, 2006 Q7 4.2 FSi Black, 2012 Q7 Sline+ 4.2Tdi White, 2008 Blue Audi S8

Everything Else

1989 Subaru Justy, 1986 Vauxhall Cartlton 2.0 GL, 1985 Vauxhall Carlton 2.2 CDi, 1987 Ford Sierra XR4x4, 1983 Vauxhall Senator, 1985 Vauxhall Senator 3.0i, 1997 Polo Saloon, 1997 Peugeot 306 1.9 TDi, Ford Sierra Sapphire 2000E, 1990 Subaru Justy, 2000 Subaru Impreza, 2000 Subaru Impreza RB5, 1993 Range Rover LSE, 2005 VW Bora, 2003 Skoda Superb, 2003 VW Passat V6 4 Motion, 1996 Peugeot 106, 2000 Range Rover 4.0, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
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Old 18th September 2014, 10:57 AM
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moltuae moltuae is offline
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Thanks very much for the reply

Yeah, that's what puzzled me too.

I owned 2 A8s prior to this (a '96 and a '97 model) and I'm sure the driver's door locks operated mechanically on those. Whereas this late 2002 D2 S8 (one of the very last D2s I believe) is almost certainly not mechanically operating the lock. It 'feels' purely switch-like ... very little mechanical resistance as you turn it, other than the spring-back tension.

I was of the understanding that it does have deadlocks though. I'd have to check to confirm, but I'm pretty sure the deadlocking features are mentioned in the vehicle's owner's manual. Also, you have to double-pull on the internal handles to get out when the doors are locked .... isn't that a deadlock thing?

The boot lock feels mechanical however, but that won't unlock the car either, only the boot itself.
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Old 18th September 2014, 11:03 AM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moltuae View Post
It 'feels' purely switch-like ... very little mechanical resistance as you turn it, other than the spring-back tension.
Well mines a 2003-reg, very late (2002 built) D2 S8 and the door key is very mechanical. Suggests something broken in yours.....
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!) Oh, and a brand new engine at just under 30,000 miles on the factory one!
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
And before that a lot of Rover 800s, a few oddities, a lovely Triumph Dolomite 1850HL with Overdrive and way back in my schooldays an Austin Seven aka Mini 850!
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Old 18th September 2014, 11:04 AM
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IT IT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moltuae View Post
Also, you have to double-pull on the internal handles to get out when the doors are locked .... isn't that a deadlock thing?
No. 1 pull unlocks it, 2nd pull opens the door. If it were deadlocks, then by definition you wouldnt be able to open it from the inside at all.....

From what you describe, its almost like the contact for 'unlock' is electrically not making it back to the central locking pump in the boot, which controls all this stuff.

As a wild, wild guess (As wiring is generally reliable) I wonder if anyone has ever replaced the CLP (which often fail) with slightly the wrong one, coded it incorrectly or somehow messed with the wiring plug?

Welcome by the way, always nice to see new enthusiasts who are able to articulate a well constructed post
__________________
For parts enquiries and Forum User Administration please contact customer services directly, not me - enquiry@a8parts.co.uk, www.a8parts.co.uk, or call 01642 783537

The Daily Town Car - 2023 Tesla Model Y Performance. Black with Black. Giant ipad screen, huge sunroof, 4 wheel drive, Tow bar, lots of ooomph and made in China, so actually built properly unlike the Californian ones.

The Family Wagon - 2018 Tesla Model X. Black, 7 Seats, Towbar, Homelink, Enhanced Auto pilot with Summon and self park, Heated front seats, CCS Charger upgrade, MCU2 Upgrade, Falconwing Doors, Self opening / closing doors, Netflix, Spotify, toys, Air suspension, alcantara roof + lots of other stuff......

The 17 year old Driver Wagon 2015 Skoda Citigo Monte Carlo. Alloys, Power steering, Aircon, Leccy windows, Sat Nav, bluetooth, central locking, cup holders, 59 whole bhp. Million times better than my first car. Well jealous.....

The First 20 Audis:

2001 D2 4.2 QS Silver, 1997 D2 S8 Silver, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2002 D2 S8 Dolphin Grey,
2003 C5 RS6 Blue, 1998 D2 S8 Black, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue, 2003 D3 4.2 Ming Blue,
2005 B7 S4 Blue, 2006 D3 3.0 Tdi Black, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2003 D3 4.2 LPG Crystal Blue,
2000 D2 S8 Silver, 2007 3.0 Tdi Q7 Black, 2009 B8 S4 Black, 1998 D2 S8 Agate Grey,
2006 D3 4.2 Tdi Blue, 2006 D3 S8, 2007 Q7 3.0 Tdi, 2006 C6 S6,

The Second 20 Audis:

2011 A7 Sline, 2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2002 A2 1.4 Tdi Silver, 2006 A8 4.2 Tdi Blue,
2007 4.2 Tdi Q7, 2006 S4 Cab Silver, 2010 RS6 Saloon Black , 2007 TT Roadster,
2010 A8 D4 4.2 Silver, 2006 C6 A6 2.7 Tdi Quattro, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue (again), 2008 Q7 4.2 Black,
2009 C6 RS6 Saloon Daytona Grey, 2001 Fully Loaded A2 Tdi, 2006 Avant S6 Black, 2007 VW Caravelle Exec Black (almost an Audi)
2009 TT Roadster Daytona, 2015 Q7 4.2 tdi lava grey, 2002 GmbH D2 demonstrator, 2006 D3 A8 LWB 4.2 Tdi Black

Most Recent Audis:

2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2007 4.2 FSi Q7 ABT Blue, 2016 S5 Coupe Launch model, 2004 S4 B6 Cabriolet, 2016 Q7 Sline White, 2006 Q7 4.2 FSi Black, 2012 Q7 Sline+ 4.2Tdi White, 2008 Blue Audi S8

Everything Else

1989 Subaru Justy, 1986 Vauxhall Cartlton 2.0 GL, 1985 Vauxhall Carlton 2.2 CDi, 1987 Ford Sierra XR4x4, 1983 Vauxhall Senator, 1985 Vauxhall Senator 3.0i, 1997 Polo Saloon, 1997 Peugeot 306 1.9 TDi, Ford Sierra Sapphire 2000E, 1990 Subaru Justy, 2000 Subaru Impreza, 2000 Subaru Impreza RB5, 1993 Range Rover LSE, 2005 VW Bora, 2003 Skoda Superb, 2003 VW Passat V6 4 Motion, 1996 Peugeot 106, 2000 Range Rover 4.0, 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance
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  #6  
Old 18th September 2014, 12:58 PM
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The_Laird The_Laird is offline
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I don't recall the exact pattern when I had trouble with the locking on my last 2002 S8, but it was pretty similar. I could lock on the key in the door but not unlock, and I could unlock the boot with the key, but not the rest of the car.

It turned out to be 2 faults: first, the central locking pump had an intermittent failure; and second, there was a mecahnical link in the driver's door that was disconnected.

The latter had clearly been the result of a previous owner fiddling about behind the door card and not reconnecting the link, but I'd never noticed because I'd never tried to unlock the door with the key.

BTW, an introduction and photos of your car are essential if you want the stream of advice to continue!
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Current mods: solar sun roof, 20mm rear spacers, 15 mm on front, red brembo callipers, 6k headlights, rear view camera, engine remap, alloy dash dial rings, alloy navi rings, tt/phaeton pedal upgrade, (and custom matching foot rest) dension ipod interface & parrot hands free kit (both fully hidden), av input, tv in motion switched thro' PF switch in blanking plug right of steering column, Audi 'quattro' sill covers, repositioned centre console switches, radio clock, .
Planned mods: auto-dimming rear view mirror, dash cam (as steamship's), fit the ski hatch, refit philips drl's (or maybe not - nope, definitely not - horrible botch!).
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Old 18th September 2014, 01:06 PM
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moltuae moltuae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IT View Post
No. 1 pull unlocks it, 2nd pull opens the door. If it were deadlocks, then by definition you wouldnt be able to open it from the inside at all.....
Ah, of course. Doh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IT View Post
From what you describe, its almost like the contact for 'unlock' is electrically not making it back to the central locking pump in the boot, which controls all this stuff.
But that's the puzzling thing ...

From an electrical point of view, the central locking ECU is clearly seeing the unlock contacts close/open because, with the ignition on, it unlocks the doors (which, I must say, I find bizarre!) and, without the ignition on, moving the key to the unlock position, turns on all the interior lighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IT View Post
Welcome by the way, always nice to see new enthusiasts who are able to articulate a well constructed post
Why thank you kind sir .... I do try

I have actually posted here before ... about 4 years ago in fact, when I first purchased this car, but my user account was closed (probably due to lack of use). I've purchased countless parts from you too over the 10+ years I've owned my various '8s. Actually, I might be looking for a used, complete S8 fuel tank soon, but that's another story/thread ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Well mines a 2003-reg, very late (2002 built) D2 S8 and the door key is very mechanical. Suggests something broken in yours.....
Ah, brilliant, thanks for that.

In that case, maybe mine is presently working entirely electrically and whatever mechanical linkage there should be is missing, broken or fallen off. That would make sense I think.

I was kinda assuming I'd maybe screwed something up using VAG COM, but I'm guessing it probably wasn't working before that. Time to Study ElsaWin I think, see if I can see what might be missing/broken.
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Old 18th September 2014, 01:13 PM
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moltuae moltuae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laird View Post
I don't recall the exact pattern when I had trouble with the locking on my last 2002 S8, but it was pretty similar. I could lock on the key in the door but not unlock, and I could unlock the boot with the key, but not the rest of the car.

It turned out to be 2 faults: first, the central locking pump had an intermittent failure; and second, there was a mecahnical link in the driver's door that was disconnected.

The latter had clearly been the result of a previous owner fiddling about behind the door card and not reconnecting the link, but I'd never noticed because I'd never tried to unlock the door with the key.

Ah, great thanks.

That further confirms it. Gotta be a mechanical linkage I reckon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laird View Post
BTW, an introduction and photos of your car are essential if you want the stream of advice to continue!
lol

I actually don't have many photos of it, but I will take some soon and post a proper intro. I've just spent over 3K on the car in fact, getting it back to showroom condition, so I think some photos are definitely required.

Here's one from a couple of years ago: http://i.imgur.com/2o2DSQ4.jpg
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Old 18th September 2014, 01:17 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Just to add that when I unlock the drivers door with the key only that door unlocks and the interior lights come on. The other doors unlock when the ignition is turned on.
When locking with the key all doors lock and the alarm chirps.

I assume that unlocking behaviour is down to the settings I have, I've changed them a fair bit (noted in another thread) with VCDS.
__________________
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!) Oh, and a brand new engine at just under 30,000 miles on the factory one!
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
And before that a lot of Rover 800s, a few oddities, a lovely Triumph Dolomite 1850HL with Overdrive and way back in my schooldays an Austin Seven aka Mini 850!
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  #10  
Old 18th September 2014, 01:25 PM
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moltuae moltuae is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Just to add that when I unlock the drivers door with the key only that door unlocks and the interior lights come on. The other doors unlock when the ignition is turned on.
When locking with the key all doors lock and the alarm chirps.

I assume that unlocking behaviour is down to the settings I have, I've changed them a fair bit (noted in another thread) with VCDS.
Ok, thanks for confirming

Mine doesn't unlock any of the doors, so it sounds like that part at least should be mechanical. Looks like that's the missing link(age).

Last edited by moltuae; 18th September 2014 at 08:25 PM.
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