WITW - Ricky's van attack

[MikkiJayne]

Ok as a few of you have already figured, and probably inevitably, Ricky D's lovely green S8 has made it's way to the workshop following it's unfortunate incident with a van while parked. Mike and I went over and picked it up with a trailer and brought it back for further investigation.

Ricky kept his extraordinary wheels so I stuck some spares on for the journey home. We all agreed they rather suit it!



Getting it on the lift was no easy task with the rear end steering wherever it wanted! In the end I put it on forwards, since I would be mostly working on the rear end anyway.

It is leaking so much oil even BP is looking smug!



Uh-oh - a crack...



The rear subframe took the brunt of the impact and all the control arms are still intact. This is the bolt from the front right subframe bush!



The crack is along a weld and is about 50mm long by 1mm wide. There is a scuff on the fuel tank as the subframe came in to contact with it, but the tank is still fine.



You can see here how bent the subframe is. There is a dent in the mounting pad just in front of the threaded boss which is what has caused the crack.



This bump in the subframe bush (from the solid boss where the bolt fits) is what caused the dent in the mounting pad.



A closer look at the crack. This would be trivial to tig weld, were it not for the plastic fuel tank right next to it!



The subframe folded like tinfoil



The front lower arm mount is distended and twisted



Since the subframe is dead anyway I cut the bush out to get a good look at the threaded boss before proceeding. The good news is that the boss is still perpendicular to the body and has not shifted. It measures within 2mm of my Murple which means I'm 99% sure this can be saved



The lower rear bush tore out of the arm



The funky dual exhaust was made in one single piece and was a bit of a bugger to remove



and unfortunately tore apart under its own weight Not sure what I'm going to do about this at the moment, but I'll probably cut it in to sections and join them with sleeve clamps, then weld this back together.



Stripped the suspension with the subframe in place as it's easier than on the floor since it doesn't move about



The lower arm front bush went splat! I've never seen a rubber bush squished out of shape like this before



I'm learning lots of useful things for when it comes to rear subframe removal and refurbishment, like the handbrake cable bracket is an arse to get to! Its bolted through the diff mount with both the heat shield and fuel tank in the way so the front of the subframe has to be lowered to gain access.





Got it in the end



I left the driveshafts on the diff since they can stay put when it's transferred to the replacement subframe, but most of the rest came off



Some ballast in the boot to make up for the weight I'm about to remove!



Removal of the rear subframe is the same as for the front - lower the car to the ground, support the subframe, remove all the bolts and lift the car off it





The fuel tank:



With a good bolt in place you can see that the mounting boss is still perpendicular



The plan is to temporarily replace the rear subframe and the right hand suspension components and also the front lower arms since the right front also took an impact, and then see how it responds to a wheel alignment. Assuming it lines up properly and confirms my measurements of the floorpan, I'll pull the subframe and the fuel tank so the crack can be welded.

If you're wondering why not just pull the tank now and get it done, two reasons: 1, I'd rather take the subframe off multiple times than take the tank off even once! 2, my tig guy isn't available until January and I want to know if it can be fixed before then

[H-M3]

“Doctor will see you” a full mri scan gone to right hand.

[David's8]

Ah! I didn't think it would be long before another series of WITW came along!!
Once again, a really fascinating insight into what can be done - with the right technical knowledge, equipment and, of course, MJs excellent engineering understanding

[Spanker]

[RICKY D]

I have mixed emotions; on one hand I'm ecstatic to have my car featured on WITW, but on the other hand I wish it was under different circumstances.

MJ now that you've stripped down the rear end I can really see the extent of the damaged components. It was really difficult for me to see this whilst on the ground without a reference point.

I cant remember if I showed you the damage to the van that hit my car?

[MikkiJayne]

I think the S8 won that battle then.

Its impossible to see any damage at all at the front, other than the wheel being in the wrong place. The subframe had shifted but thats not the extent of it, hence changing all four control arms as a first step as the bush in the right lower rear is looking a bit squished. All the subframe bolts are in the right place so if control arms don't correct it then a replacement front subframe is also in order, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

The damage to the body at the rear is pretty superficial in the end as the hard points are all in the same place. This is what happened:

As the subframe moved forward, rotating around the bolt (yellow arrow) the solid block in the bush (yellow hash) ran out of travel and started pushing through the upper bush face (red circle).

This movement pushed on the subframe mounting pad, moving it upward (orange). As the cast aluminium moved, it was constrained by the threaded boss (purple) which is a very solid chunk of stuff. The energy was therefore imparted to the area in front of the boss, which moved upward slightly (green arrows) and cracked the weld.

The rear of the mounting pad (purple area) is untouched and still where it should be, so welding up the crack will put the strength back in that area and everything should align up just fine again.




The D2s use an amazingly strong aluminium alloy. I remember when we repaired the sill damage to Big Red, trying to bend the metal back in to position took a remarkable amount of force. It is much harder than steel of the era.

Back when I had my first D2 3.7 a colleague driving a mk1 Renault Laguna ran in to the back of it in stop-start motorway traffic. The Laguna was destroyed and had a D2-shaped void where it's bumper and radiator used to be and had to be towed away. My A8's bumper was scratched and the aluminium trim came off, but was otherwise unharmed

[Adrian E]

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne

The funky dual exhaust was made in one single piece and was a bit of a bugger to remove



and unfortunately tore apart under its own weight Not sure what I'm going to do about this at the moment, but I'll probably cut it in to sections and join them with sleeve clamps, then weld this back together.

Unfortunately quite a common issue with stainless systems - had one made up on my bit of French tat, which is notorious for having no support between the exquisite 8-2-1 manifold flexi joint and the mid box, which lives just behind the back seat! Fabricator managed to create an additional mount using some of those cotton reel style rubber bushes and some spare holes in a bracket hanging under the front seats.

Mine has one sleeved joint half way along to aid removal

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne

Back when I had my first D2 3.7 a colleague driving a mk1 Renault Laguna ran in to the back of it in stop-start motorway traffic. The Laguna was destroyed and had a D2-shaped void where it's bumper and radiator used to be and had to be towed away. My A8's bumper was scratched and the aluminium trim came off, but was otherwise unharmed

It's a big digression, but that reminded me of an unfortunate "event" in the late 1970s at the massive Shepherds Bush "Squareabout" when I was on my way to work.
A Fiat hatchback of some sort was in front of me at the Give Way line and drove off but then stopped for reasons I never did find out. I'd started just after him and was glancing to my right to check on traffic coming round and rear-ended him at full throttle though low speed so no-one was hurt.
His Fiat had a Triumph Dolomite shaped indentation right up to the back seat!
My Dolomite had a slight "ding" in the centre front below the badge between the two grilles and one of the underriders on the front bumper bent slightly back.
His car was a write-off, mine was totally driveable and cost very little to fix.
I don't know what 1970s Fiats were made of but if it was steel it was VERY thin!
(Before anyone asks, it wasn't a Sprint. 1850HL with overdrive. Tahiti Blue I think)

[RICKY D]

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne

I think the S8 won that battle then.

Its impossible to see any damage at all at the front, other than the wheel being in the wrong place. The subframe had shifted but thats not the extent of it, hence changing all four control arms as a first step as the bush in the right lower rear is looking a bit squished. All the subframe bolts are in the right place so if control arms don't correct it then a replacement front subframe is also in order, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

The damage to the body at the rear is pretty superficial in the end as the hard points are all in the same place. This is what happened:

As the subframe moved forward, rotating around the bolt (yellow arrow) the solid block in the bush (yellow hash) ran out of travel and started pushing through the upper bush face (red circle).

This movement pushed on the subframe mounting pad, moving it upward (orange). As the cast aluminium moved, it was constrained by the threaded boss (purple) which is a very solid chunk of stuff. The energy was therefore imparted to the area in front of the boss, which moved upward slightly (green arrows) and cracked the weld.

The rear of the mounting pad (purple area) is untouched and still where it should be, so welding up the crack will put the strength back in that area and everything should align up just fine again.




The D2s use an amazingly strong aluminium alloy. I remember when we repaired the sill damage to Big Red, trying to bend the metal back in to position took a remarkable amount of force. It is much harder than steel of the era.

Back when I had my first D2 3.7 a colleague driving a mk1 Renault Laguna ran in to the back of it in stop-start motorway traffic. The Laguna was destroyed and had a D2-shaped void where it's bumper and radiator used to be and had to be towed away. My A8's bumper was scratched and the aluminium trim came off, but was otherwise unharmed

Incredible breakdown

I love watching aviation disaster documentaries and how the investigators piece together the chain of events leading to the crash or near miss. Your breakdown reminded me of this

[tintin]

Originally Posted by HPsauce

A Fiat hatchback of some sort was in front of me at the Give Way line and drove off but then stopped for reasons I never did find out. I'd started just after him and was glancing to my right to check on traffic coming round and rear-ended him at full throttle though low speed so no-one was hurt.
His Fiat had a Triumph Dolomite shaped indentation right up to the back seat!
My Dolomite had a slight "ding" in the centre front below the badge between the two grilles and one of the underriders on the front bumper bent slightly back.
His car was a write-off, mine was totally driveable and cost very little to fix.
I don't know what 1970s Fiats were made of but if it was steel it was VERY thin!
(Before anyone asks, it wasn't a Sprint. 1850HL with overdrive. Tahiti Blue I think)

Funny that: I had the the same, but in reverse around '87/88: I was in our Fiat Uno, and stopped behind a BL Mini at Bowdon roundabout by the M56, a mile from home. The Mini went to go, so I followed. He stopped, I didn't - and the back of the mini crumpled, whereas my Uno sustained a cracked number plate, but nothing more.