D5 is a bit clever

[Ameiseuk]

one word....Hydrogen

Lithium Ion is the current 'buzz word' in battery technology....everyone has jumped on the band wagon however it is as much of a 'dirty fuel' as diesel.

There is simply not enough infrastructure to charge EV's in this country.

Remember CNG? It was 'The fuel of the future'....for a while

If the production cost of hydrogen can be brought down to manageable levels then it becomes a mainstream player.

[HPsauce]

I tend to lean towards the hydrogen or synthetic petrol (or similar) camp in the long run.
I just don't see batteries as anything other than an interim solution due to the low energy density, charging issues and the rarity/difficulty of the materials involved.

Though the use of hybrids with small batteries for short-term power boosts will become pretty commonplace.

[sarg]

Worth a watch if you have half hour spare

https://youtu.be/1CUA2imRYRM

[tonupkid]

Hydrogen. The word 'if' says it all. Electric cars are here, actual working useable and purchasable electric cars.
For the future, Hydrogen has plenty going for it, but for now electric cars are here, on people drives, using our roads. I won't be holding back waiting for that 'if' to come good. Nor, I suspect, will the vast majority of people.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by tonupkid

Hydrogen. The word 'if' says it all. Electric cars are here, actual working useable and purchasable electric cars.
For the future, Hydrogen has plenty going for it, but for now electric cars are here, on people drives, using our roads. I won't be holding back waiting for that 'if' to come good. Nor, I suspect, will the vast majority of people.

One of the main issues I have with hydrogen - apart from its current absence, and that it shares similar combustion risks as petrol - is that the delivery model is just far too complicated. I preach simplicity to clients as my main line of work, and a hydrogen fuel solution unfortunately just maintains the wholly unnecessary complexity of the current fuel supply chain - i.e. refining of the "end" product, a complicated supply chain for physical delivery, and the maintenance of wasteful infrastructure. Much of that is not required, creates inefficiency and extra cost, and uses/depletes resources and/or energy.

Compare that with electricity, where there's little comparable "cost of conversion", and where the supply chain is either:

(a) universal and already in place (in the case of developed economies) or
(b) able to be quickly created in a shorter, less wasteful end-to-end supply design (in the case of emerging economies).

Both electric and hydrogen are both infinitely better than burning dead dinosaurs, but of the two, I prefer electric

[HPsauce]

Though in many less-developed economies electricity is produced locally from fossil fuels driving small generators.

I see an irony there of a farmer in rural somewhere (anywhere) recharging his Tesla from a diesel generator.

Hydrogen is probably more restricted in geographical coverage than electricity due to the supply chain problems, though will undoubtedly have its place. Synthetic (liquid) fuels that are high-energy but relatively non-polluting are my long-term bet but I won't be here to see that.

[roberto]

well ive tried to buy at least 6 £25,000 - £30,000 Diesel Audi,s this year

making offers, and all sold well above retail as prices rocketed after 1st lockdown, so i gave up for now..

but im watching the market and all the nice cars sell within a week

2 cars sold in 1 day , and 1 of them went on the market for £5000 more and sold (audi derv again)

All Diesel

folk will go mad for new Diesel cars in the last year of manufacture

[tonupkid]

Originally Posted by roberto

well ive tried to buy at least 6 £25,000 - £30,000 Diesel Audi,s this year

making offers, and all sold well above retail as prices rocketed after 1st lockdown, so i gave up for now..

but im watching the market and all the nice cars sell within a week

2 cars sold in 1 day , and 1 of them went on the market for £5000 more and sold (audi derv again)

All Diesel

folk will go mad for new Diesel cars in the last year of manufacture

'Mad for a diesel vehicle'. On the contrary you have to be mad to go for one

The same leap in demand that you have seen for diesel applies also to petrol. It's just a result of the distortions that Covid has applied to the used car market this past few months.

[tintin]

Here's a couple of links that show what's already live in terms of Net Zero Fuel for electric vehicles (and not Tesla related ) - which aptly demonstrates the "short supply chain" capability which electricity has over fossil fuels or hydrogen.

(1) Gridserve announcement of their Braintree electric service station, now open:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...opens-in-essex

(2) Gridserve CEO explaining how they're doing this, why this is 100% green energy, and what they're planning on building out in the UK:
https://youtu.be/xUmE_beDk2Q

And - in the interests of balance - some stuff about synthetic fuel:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/in...nt-only-option

[Ameiseuk]

Mains electricity is a costly 'fuel' to make, and equally as dangerous as Hydrogen....Chernobyl? Three Mile Island?

I'm currently involved in the project of ripping out a 'brand new' dual fuel coal/oil fired power station which is be replaced by a 'cleaner' natural gas powered station.

The station was due to closed completely this year and dismantled....then the boffins realised that they won't have enough generating capacity if people start buying EV's and want to charge them during the ad break in Corrie.

£200m to 're-purpose' an existing power station......thats's on heck of a payback at 19p/kwh out of a plug.

....and where is the dirty polluting coal fired station going to?.....not the scrap yard.....Africa

Local farmers there will be charging their Teslas there for years off squished dinosaurs