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  #11  
Old 6th December 2021, 03:01 PM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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It made me wonder recently if Horner was responsible for Vettel being a bit of a tw@t back in the day too, given what a thoroughly nice and genuinely funny bloke he comes across as now.
Likewise. It seems like its probably quite a toxic environment if you're not Max, Helmet or Whiny Spice. I wonder how all those Mercedes powertrain people they've recruited are going to get on...
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  #12  
Old 6th December 2021, 03:47 PM
sarg sarg is offline
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I wonder how all those Mercedes powertrain people they've recruited are going to get on...
I didn't know about that, but haven't a good number of their own staff left for Aston Martin?

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Originally Posted by Adrian E View Post
but as things stand if neither finish next weekend then Max wins, which just feels like this weekend's scenario will be repeated (whereby Max has nothing to lose if he doesn't finish, so long as Lewis doesn't either)
I think (ok, hope then ) that this will not happen. Schumacher tried the same in 1997 and got disqualified from the whole season's championship, so there is a precedent too.

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Don't get me started on the 2 lap 'race' behind the safety car for half points at Spa......
I have a horrible feeling that this is going to happen - i.e. Max finishes 2nd with 18 points, Lewis 3rd with 15 points, thus winning the championship by virtue of an extra 3.5 points from Spa - dumbass rule, about on a par with them allowing cars to be serviced during a red flag stoppage. Did you hear what Lando said about that?
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Last edited by sarg; 6th December 2021 at 03:50 PM.
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  #13  
Old 6th December 2021, 06:09 PM
vagdream vagdream is offline
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'I checked the F1 site earlier and Max has been given a further 10 second penalty for braking, which resulted in that shunt. Given the evidence they had, I fully support that.'

As I read it there was not only a 10 sec penalty but also (and perhaps more relevant) a two point licence penalty for Verstappen. I was astounded (but perhaps shouldn't have been) at the scale of the Verstappen's licence penalties in such a short career compared to all other drivers.
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  #14  
Old 6th December 2021, 09:15 PM
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'I checked the F1 site earlier and Max has been given a further 10 second penalty for braking, which resulted in that shunt. Given the evidence they had, I fully support that.'

As I read it there was not only a 10 sec penalty but also (and perhaps more relevant) a two point licence penalty for Verstappen. I was astounded (but perhaps shouldn't have been) at the scale of the Verstappen's licence penalties in such a short career compared to all other drivers.
True. I never mentioned the points as it's not something you always hear about during a race. Interestingly, I came across the following site which gives a constant update on points given to all the drivers (where applicable) and when they expire. It makes for an interesting read, as six of the drivers are already half way to getting a race ban:

https://wtf1.com/post/why-does-each-...enalty-points/
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  #15  
Old 6th December 2021, 10:20 PM
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tonupkid tonupkid is offline
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Watching that race was certainly exciting, proper edge of the seat stuff. And today my head's been busy trying to make sense of it all.

The post race interviews of Toto and Horner were very indicative of how their teams run, and reflect especially in the attitudes shown by their drivers.
Toto kept his cool, refused to commit to blaming and poked fun at himself for loosing his cool (broken headset).
Horner contradicted himself twice, which is a polite was of saying that he outright lied. The fact that he did this while being recorded is indicative of an ego so large that it overwhelms the filter that a normal person employs in order to retain credibility.

Max, formerly a likeable competitor, is now behaving dangerously. It appears to me that there is a toxic environment at Red Bull. It's all blame and accusation. Lewis, on the other hand, accepts his setbacks, deals with them and moves on.

I might be a bit of an outlier here, but I have to admire Lewis for his (sometimes gawkish) efforts in bringing attention to issues outside F1. He does not have to do this, it's probably not an easy path to take but he's doing his best to leverage his success and fame to improving things for those who's voices don't otherwise get heard.

Senna, Prost - Prost, Senna. W@nkers, nearly killed F1 for me.
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  #16  
Old 7th December 2021, 10:14 AM
sarg sarg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonupkid View Post
The post race interviews of Toto and Horner were very indicative of how their teams run, and reflect especially in the attitudes shown by their drivers.
Toto kept his cool, refused to commit to blaming and poked fun at himself for loosing his cool (broken headset).
Horner contradicted himself twice, which is a polite was of saying that he outright lied. The fact that he did this while being recorded is indicative of an ego so large that it overwhelms the filter that a normal person employs in order to retain credibility.

Max, formerly a likeable competitor, is now behaving dangerously. It appears to me that there is a toxic environment at Red Bull. It's all blame and accusation. Lewis, on the other hand, accepts his setbacks, deals with them and moves on.

I might be a bit of an outlier here, but I have to admire Lewis for his (sometimes gawkish) efforts in bringing attention to issues outside F1. He does not have to do this, it's probably not an easy path to take but he's doing his best to leverage his success and fame to improving things for those who's voices don't otherwise get heard.
Totally agree with all of these points.

I had some time thinking about hosting F1 in Saudi, and came to the conclusion that giving the likes of Hamilton and Vettel (as he has done too) the stage to highlight and promote some of the causes can only be a positive thing overall.

It's just a shame that it seemed to be limited to LBTQ and women's rights issues, but did not tackle some of the other myriad of issues there as well.
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  #17  
Old 7th December 2021, 11:13 AM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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Publicly declining their request to host a race because of awful human rights issues would have a much larger impact.
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  #18  
Old 7th December 2021, 12:41 PM
sarg sarg is offline
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That should not be a decision for the drivers to make though
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  #19  
Old 7th December 2021, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tonupkid View Post
Max, formerly a likeable competitor, is now behaving dangerously.
Totally agree. Where has the Max gone that raced in the wet in Brazil a few years back?

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Originally Posted by sarg View Post
It's just a shame that it seemed to be limited to LBTQ and women's rights issues, but did not tackle some of the other myriad of issues there as well.
It's just another cash cow for the FIA and F1. Just like Bahrain when it started in 2004. Had loads of human rights issue, and almost 20 years later it hasn't improved:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/202...apters/bahrain

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkiJayne View Post
Publicly declining their request to host a race because of awful human rights issues would have a much larger impact.
Here, here. Although as sarg alluded to, that sort of sentiment has to come from the teams themselves. Better still, it should be from the FIA and F1, but we all know that ain't going to happen.
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My DIY jobs - Replaced alarm horn, Replaced Coolant Temp sensor, Updated RNS-D firmware, Installed Reversing Camera and Digital TV, Dashcam Installation, Retrofitted Rear Blinds, Auto-Dimming Rear View Mirror, Chrome Boot Struts

Sold! 2008 S8 D3 5.2 V10 - Engine: BSM, Gearbox:KLW, Colour:LY7F Suzuka Grey Pearl Effect, Interior:Black/Black with Silver/Black valcona leather with carbon atlas inserts, Bang & Olufsen, Heated windscreen, Soft-close doors, TV, DAB, AMI, Quad Zone, Auto Boot, Auto dim Mirrors, Keyless entry, PDC with rearview camera, AFS II Headlights

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