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Old 7th February 2021, 11:00 PM
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IT IT is offline
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Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Biggest problem I see with Tesla is that battery doesnít come with lifetime warranty and battery replacement isnít cheap.

In petrol world 5k to 10k will buy you an excellent car and then annual maintenance budget of 2k will keep the car in great shape pretty much forever.
You can drive Audi for 20-30-40 years with 2k p.a. maintenance budget.

One day Teslas will depreciate to 5k to 10k mark, but when battery fails thatís the end of it. It becomes prohibitively expensive.

And thatís fundamental problem of electric cars.
Electric canít compete with petrol in cheap segment.

Or am I wrong?
I think we will see the death of cheap ICE cars. They are so over engineered now to meet stringent emission's regulations, that bar having a bent tester as a mate, its going to be difficult to keep all these DPFs / EGRs / cats / whatever working as they should - and even then, they are eliminating bent testers through simple stats, so there will be few places to hide.

As it stands, the second hand ICE market is a lottery of hacked, bodged, remapped, de catted, de-dpf'd hotch potch that can lead to some big bills. Or you buy the car new, and weep with the depreciation.

I agree that battery technology isn't proven. But, what is proven, is residuals on old Ev's. you try and buy a 'cheap' second hand EV, and you can't - because they're still great cars, and very desirable. There are Telsas with silly mileage on them, still commanding good money. And why ? Well, because they might have started life with a 250 mile range, and now 'only' do 150, but really, that's more than enough for most people. It really is. I can count with my socks and shoes still on how many times I've ///needed/// to take my Tesla more than 150 miles non stop.

My model 3 has lost less money than any car I can recall in my car history. Its ridiculous. For a long time, it was worth more than I paid for it ! Its in positive equity right now. If I sold it, I'd get cash back for sure.

And what is this annual maintenance you speak of ? 2K ??. + fuel costs + repair costs + tax disk. Are you sure this is only a 5 to 10K car, because the costs seem to be mounting.

I no longer pay for fuel. Well, I do. But honestly its like trying to count how much I spend on drinking water from the tap. Its trivial.

Yes, batteries will hold less charge over time (I've not watched mine closely enough to notice) but they will still be ample for most purposes. None of this 'has it been ragged with cold oil', 'how often was the oil changed', 'did you service the gearbox' - What the heck is a gearbox ? ;-)

It does need a leap of faith to get on this bandwagon. Hats off to Stephen for being the first I've known. He showed me his, and I still had doubts. Only by jumping in the deep end, have I seen the light - and I think any EV owner would concur.

Don't confuse stuffing some batteries and a motor in a regular car, and calling it an EV as being progress. Audi did that and shame on them. I do like quality, I did like Audi - but Telsa are in a whole different league of innovation, and continuous innovation at that. Their build quality isn't Germanic - but its a dam sight better than I was expecting. Very tolerable indeed.

If you want a classic car as a daily, and like tinkering and DIY maintenance. 'Cheap' ICE is still for you, for now.

If you want a new daily driver, then unless you're in a block of flats or have no hope of charging it at home, then really, EV is the way forward.
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The Family Wagon - 2012 Q7 4.2 Tdi Sline +. White, Titanium 21" wheels, Black styling pack, Tinted pan roof, Carbon inlays, Comfort Pack (Keyless, Memory seats, mirrors and steering column), Load Pack (Tow bar, Net partiton, load securing rails, Reversible mat), DAB Radio, Digital TV, Bang and Olufsen, Quad Zone climate, Homelink, Rear blinds, 4 x Heated seats, Twin pane glass, High Beam assist, TPM, 6 comfort seat option with rear center console

The 17 year old Learner Driver Wagon 2015 Skoda Citigo Monte Carlo. Alloys, Power steering, Aircon, Leccy windows, Sat Nav, bluetooth, central locking, cup holders, 59 whole bhp. Million times better than my first car. Well jealous.....

Daily 2019 Tesla Model 3, Midnight Silver Metallic, Full Performance with AWD and Long Range

Standard Kit (In Audi Speak): Quattro, PDC with Reversing camera, (Completely) Keyless entry/start, Electric memory seats Steering wheel and Mirrors with easy entry, Adaptive Cruise Control, Traffic Jam Assist, D3 Bose Equivalent Audio (imo), Fixed Panoramic sunroof, Auto dim heated memory folding dipping mirrors, Hi beam assist, LED headlights, 20" Alloys, Coming home lights, Auxiliary heating (and cooling), remote boot release (front and back), DAB radio, side assist, lane assist, heated seats x 5, dual zone climate control, tyre pressure monitoring, red brake callipers

Buy yours here and get us both 1000 free supercharger miles: Tesla.com

Octopus Energy. Use the Agile tariff for seriously cheap overnight EV charging, or other things.... At times, the cost goes negative - and you get paid to fill up ! Sign up with this link and we get £50 each

The First 20 Audis:

2001 D2 4.2 QS Silver, 1997 D2 S8 Silver, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2002 D2 S8 Dolphin Grey,
2003 C5 RS6 Blue, 1998 D2 S8 Black, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue, 2003 D3 4.2 Ming Blue,
2005 B7 S4 Blue, 2006 D3 3.0 Tdi Black, 1999 D2 4.2 Silver, 2003 D3 4.2 LPG Crystal Blue,
2000 D2 S8 Silver, 2007 3.0 Tdi Q7 Black, 2009 B8 S4 Black, 1998 D2 S8 Agate Grey,
2006 D3 4.2 Tdi Blue, 2006 D3 S8, 2007 Q7 3.0 Tdi, 2006 C6 S6,

The Second 20 Audis:

2011 A7 Sline, 2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2002 A2 1.4 Tdi Silver, 2006 A8 4.2 Tdi Blue,
2007 4.2 Tdi Q7, 2006 S4 Cab Silver, 2010 RS6 Saloon Black , 2007 TT Roadster,
2010 A8 D4 4.2 Silver, 2006 C6 A6 2.7 Tdi Quattro, 2000 D2 4.2 QS/S8 Ming Blue (again), 2008 Q7 4.2 Black,
2009 C6 RS6 Saloon Daytona Grey, 2001 Fully Loaded A2 Tdi, 2006 Avant S6 Black, 2007 VW Caravelle Exec Black (almost an Audi)
2009 TT Roadster Daytona, 2015 Q7 4.2 tdi lava grey, 2002 GmbH D2 demonstrator, 2006 D3 A8 LWB 4.2 Tdi Black

Most Recent Audis:

2001 A2 1.4 Tdi Black, 2007 4.2 FSi Q7 ABT Blue, 2016 S5 Coupe Launch model, 2004 S4 B6 Cabriolet, 2016 Q7 Sline White, 2006 Q7 4.2 FSi Black
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:37 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,075
Default Teslas any good?

Yes, but Hyundai are a pretty close second, and the Ioniq 5 is really rather nice:


Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's -
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Ebony Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 01:06 PM
MikkiJayne MikkiJayne is offline
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Location: Devon
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A review of the Etron GT here from Jonny Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocR-BIWFEv4

He seems to quite like it.
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Old 30th March 2021, 12:43 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chilterns, almost over HS2!
Posts: 7,684

Interesting article I'm reading in the latest issue of New Scientist, about "Mechanical Batteries".
Basically an array of flywheels, but the researchers working on them reckon they can get better energy/mass ratio than Lithium-ion.
No issues of mining rare materials or chemical degradation after a number charge/discharge cycles.
And potentially, depending how managed, is capable of delivering very large short-term bursts of power, so it's the US military are leading this.

Could be interesting, due to gyroscopic effects, in as moving vehicle though....

And with a suitable "charger" can probably be refreshed fairly rapidly too.
2003 D2 FL S8. Irish Green Pearl/Beige. Solar sunroof, auto-dim mirrors, electric rear seat functions, ski hatch retrofit; extended leather. Aftermarket DVB-T, reversing camera and full XCarlink (Bluetooth etc.).
2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!)
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.

Last edited by HPsauce; 30th March 2021 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:13 PM
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steamship steamship is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Londonderry, Northern Ireland
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Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Interesting article I'm reading in the latest issue of New Scientist, about "Mechanical Batteries".

Could be interesting, due to gyroscopic effects, in as moving vehicle though....
This video on YouTube popped up on my recommend list a couple of months ago. Interestingly, there is mention made of the Audi R18:

2001 A8 D2 FL 3.7 Q - LPG Conversion, Engine: AKC, Gearbox:FBB, Colour:LY5X Aqua Blue pearl effect, Interior:WJ light beige/dark beige valcona leather with burr walnut inserts

My DIY jobs - Replaced alarm horn, Replaced Coolant Temp sensor, Updated RNS-D firmware, Installed Reversing Camera and Digital TV, Dashcam Installation, Retrofitted Rear Blinds, Auto-Dimming Rear View Mirror, Chrome Boot Struts

Sold! 2008 S8 D3 5.2 V10 - Engine: BSM, Gearbox:KLW, Colour:LY7F Suzuka Grey Pearl Effect, Interior:Black/Black with Silver/Black valcona leather with carbon atlas inserts, Bang & Olufsen, Heated windscreen, Soft-close doors, TV, DAB, AMI, Quad Zone, Auto Boot, Auto dim Mirrors, Keyless entry, PDC with rearview camera, AFS II Headlights

My DIY jobs - Fan Jet Windscreen Washers, Retrofitted Electric Side Blinds
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