02 S8 Gearbox Knackered

[jmw748]

Well, a few of you know I bought my S8 in January. I love the car. I took it to Chester Auto Transmissions and had a full Tech Tronix service at the end of January, even though there were no issues with the 'box. 2 months later, my gearbox starts jumping out of gear, slipping and thumping into first or during kickdown. I drove the car for 400 miles this week and it's driveable as long as I set off very slowly and build up speed slowly. As soon as I try kickdown or pull away fast, the box screams, slips and lurches forward with a huge thump. Methinks the primary clutch or torque converter is screwed. Worst bit is that the box started only started whining after the service (even the wife noticed the extra noise). I can't help thinking that it would have been fine if I'd left it alone (even CAT admitted that fresh oil can dislodge gunk in the gearbox that's keeping seals and components in place). After paying 238 quid 3 months ago and insisting on Esso ATF (not Dexxron 6), the gearbox fails. I'm one p**sed off cookie. Another 2K bill on it's way.

Even more pee'd off because my old '94 BMW 325 TDS motorway chomper is still running like a dream with minimal maintenance for the bloke I gave it to (yes..gave it to..no cost).

I've decided to refurb the wheels and get the 'box rebuilt. I'll do a full cambelt service too. If she gives me any problems after that..she's going off a cliff!

[Singh]

Sorry it came down to a rebuild mate, you getting the job done at Unit 20?

[Conan_the_Librarian]

How many miles had the box done when it went in for the service please?

Mate I empathise - you're not the first this has happened to and definitely not the last

The problem is common on these cars it seems to me, there are tales of gearbox woe all over '8 forums.

The initial feeling seemed to be that as soon as you pick your '8 up, you should have it's gearbox serviced to avoid the dreaded BANG and PRNDS, but now it seems that you're damned if you do service it and damned if you don't - the ZF box is basically an over-complicated and expensive time bomb that should never have been fitted to the '8 in the first place IMHO.

Sorry guys, but the '8 is flawed beauty, damaged goods, an engineering masterpiece with a numbnut in charge of gearbox selection. It's a sodding shame

[Conan_the_Librarian]

I think that's a bit harsh. The numbnuts in this case is the Audi/ZF Four Sprung Duck who decided that it is a fill for life no maintenance box. If its been maintained from new with ATF changes it'll run for a very long time. Unfortunately original purchasers (from new) wouldn't make that sort of effort and by the time we (the enthusiast/second user) get them they are already on there way to self destruction. Some are lucky and get the ATF change done in time and run the trans on to it's real destiny and others are just to late and either have them go earlier than they should or change the ATF and precipitate the early demise.

It's a bit of a lottery for the second hand user.

As someone trying to recover from a 2.5K bill I know just how you feel. Add that mine went within the first 3 weeks of ownership you probably get some idea of me feeling a little nervous of whether I have done teh right thing buying the old girl.

All the best with the work and I hope you are ultimately happy with her when she is back.

[jmw748]

Thanks for the comments fellas.

In answer to some questions above:
Conan, the 'box had over 100K on it when I bought it and had been serviced religiously at Audi Cambridge. Absolutely no problems at all with the 'box, but I paid for the full oil change (at CAT using the Tech Tronix) within weeks of purchase. Gearbox then failed after 2 more months (three weeks earlier, it flashed all gears in red, but then worked fine after switch off and restart).

I'm inclined to agree with DJStrange - damned if you do and damned if you don't. I see a worrying trend of failures after preventative maintenance. It really does seem like an option to run them 'til they fail, then rebuild completely. As Ian says, the super duper service from ZF still didn't stop the inevitable failure of that box and you can't get better than that factory stripdown. I'll have mine rebuilt (although I am still investigating the cost of a manual conversion). Chester Auto told me that older boxes could fail with new oil since seals have become "embedded" with the dregs present in the old oil - flush 'em through and you unsettle the "aged balance" of the box -makes sense to me.

Singh - Unit 20 send their gearbox issues to Chester Auto Transmissions, so I'll cut out the middleman and barter a cash deal (already spoken to Graham over there). Unit 20 were also rumoured to have fitted a manual to an RS6, but I rang them and this is not the case - they have the car and box ready for the transplant, so no use case to throw money at.

I made the schoolboy error of buying a Ducati 748S new 6 years ago -cost a fortune to run, chewed rear tyres within 1000 miles (spirited riding ahem) and the engine turned to mush after 16K -all despite sticking religiously to Ducati main delaer servicing. You'll understand why I'm getting deja vu here! Thing is, for the times when the bike ran sweet, gripped corners like glue at 120mph whilst sounding like a Spitfire on overrun; it was all worth it. The most worrying thing is, the S8 with quads gives me a similar feeling when it's gliding cross-country without the back ache, wrist ache or flies smashing into my face!

I admit to having major misgivings about the S8, having researched the car and found too many horror stories about this box and even worse experiences with the Multitronic boxes in other Audis. I will NEVER buy an auto again - too many electronic gubbins and tiny parts doing the thinking for you. Manual boxes are complex these days, but cogs is cogs in my opinion and in 20 years of a job populated by adrenalin junkies with performance cars, I have heard very, very few instances of manuals failing (although it does happen). I've burned out motorbike clutches with badly executed burnouts and trashed car clutches with track days, but this takes the p**s. Pay over 2K and hope she doesn't fail within another 3000 miles - no thanks.

Rant over...180 degree view: I'm storing my pennies as we speak. Wheels refurbed Tuesday...Meguiars clean and polish tomorrow, because I still love the friggin' car! It has more presence than any 5 series or Mercedes.

Plan is to throw a few more K at her, but she's perilously close to becoming one of those "I tried that" cars. I'm even more gutted to say that I've never had as many issues with my past BMWs! spit, cough, splutter....

[Singh]

Strange, my old 97 4.2 QS done 219,000 miles on its original gearbox, and is still going strong with its new owner, its only oil change was at 214k I was going to book my S8 in at CAT but think I will leave it now, the box is as smooth as silk. JMW, if you can, certainly keep the S8. Even in a good few years it will still be ahead of its time and will be a long time before it gets dated, and as yours is a final edition it looks stunning with them wheels! I'm also sure that none of the past BMWs have been as special as a Final Edition S8!

[jmw748]

You're right mate - I get very pee'd off until I look out of the window and see it on the drive. Gets compliments wherever I take it. Auto boxes are great for lazy driving around town and very relaxing on the motorway: I just wish they were more robust.
She'll look better when the wheels are powder coated on Tue/Weds. No point having them diamond cut again (although it's almost impossible to find someone who'll do that with 20s anyway), as all paint shops tell me the lacquer will peel within 2 years or less. Makes sense really - try keying any very shiny metallic surface for clear gloss and expect it to stay there! I'll get some pics up whem she's healthier.

[Singh]

Look forward to them, what colour is your S8 again? Have you still got the link to the quad fitment at MIJ? Been trying to find it...