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Old 15th February 2018, 03:07 PM
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Conquistador Conquistador is offline
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Default Legislation puts brakes on the D5's 'Level 3' autonomous tech

From Fleet News magazine:


Audi is ready to sell the world's first 'Level 3' autonomous car, the A8 luxury saloon, but it cannot enable the self-driving features in the UK due to current legislation.

The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control.

The use of this technology is currently prohibited by Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, which states: "No person shall drive or cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road is he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead".

In it's recent consultation, 'the Pathway to Driverless Cars: Proposals to Support Advanced Driver Assistance Systems and Automated Vehicle Technologies', the Centre for Connected and Autonomous Vehicles at the Department for Transport (DfT) sought to amend Regulation 104.

Yet in another consultation (Remote Control, Parking and Motorway Assist: Proposals for Amending Regulations and the Highway Code), the DfT decided to only amend regulations to allow the use of remote control parking systems.

A spokesperson at the DfT told Fleet News: 'A programme of regulatory reform will ensure the safe arrival of automated vehicles. In addition, as announced in last year's Industrial Strategy, we are carrying out a three-year project with the Law Commission to set out proposals for a long-term regulatory framework for self-driving vehicles.'

The DfT also stated that Level 3 technology is not 'explicitly prohibited' but said drivers must obey all current laws when driving any car equipped with an advanced driver assistance system - which, in effect, confirms they can't be used on public roads.

Chancellor Philip Hammon outlined the Government's ambitions to introduce self-driving cars on the UK roads by 2021 in his Budget speech, although this will initially only allow for testing of driverless cars. The German Government has changed its regulations already, to allow the use of Level 3 systems, making it the first market to benefit from the A8's self-driving ability.

Audi expects to roll out the Traffic Jam Pilot system in the UK from 2019. 'It sounds like the Government has only just started ramping up discussions about autonomous cars bur it isn't just about infrastructure and road conditions', said Dan Marsh, product manager for the Audi A8. 'Liability has not been decided yet. It the car drives by itself then there are still a few things to overcome. The technology is there, it's just waiting on legislation', he added.

Audi's system works by using a collection of sensors that scans the car's surroundings. The central driver assistance controller is a high-speed computer which collates the data to continually produce an image of the surroundings with the help of data from radar sensors..

Later this year Audi will introduce its smartphone remote parking feature in the UK which allows the driver to exit the vehicle and remotely activate the car's self-parking system. The car will also be able to move itself in and out of a garage by remote control.

Marsh Said: 'It is really important for us. We are the first manufacturer with a production car to have these features and we want to capitalise on that. It would mean a lot for us to bring that to market first. AI and the Level 3 technology is the unique selling proposition of the car. We want to get that out to market as soon as possible.'

Currently the new A8 features Level 2 autonomous features as standard. Its Adaptive Cruise Assist combines Lane Assist and Adaptive Cruise Control which can effectively drive the car in most conditions. However, the system will disengage if the driver lets go of the steering wheel.

Marsh confirmed that he is working to create an option package which will combine the autonomous features, once available, to make it easier for customers.


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  #2  
Old 15th February 2018, 05:27 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Default Interesting...

...given that my Tesla does all of this already (and has done for around 18 months.... ) .

Perhaps the difference is that Audi says it - rather than the driver - will be responsible when autonomous driving is activated?
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(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
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Old 15th February 2018, 05:33 PM
HPsauce HPsauce is offline
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Hmm, not so sure, isn't Tesla a "Level 2" system, Audi claim to be first at Level 3?
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2016 Volvo V40 T5 Cross Country (4WD) with ALL the toys including adaptive cruise etc. etc. Osmium Grey with Blonde/Charcoal leather interior. Polestar performance "optimisation". (A much rarer model than a D2 S8 by the way!) Oh, and a brand new engine at just under 30,000 miles on the factory one!
Finally: gone, but not forgotten.....
1998 D2 PF S8. AgateGrey/Platinum. Every option (I think) except electric rear seats, tiptronic steering wheel, ski hatch, towbar & dimming door mirrors.
e.g. Cruise control, NavPlus/TV, Bose, GSM, Xenons, Solar roof, Parking sensors, Alcantara/leather everywhere of course. (internal dimming mirror added later)
1998 (very early) Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec; ABS/TCS, Heated screen/mirrors, Aircon, Auto-dim mirror, Leather, Trip computer, Cruise control, OEM Ford SatNav with CD changer.
And before that a lot of Rover 800s, a few oddities, a lovely Triumph Dolomite 1850HL with Overdrive and way back in my schooldays an Austin Seven aka Mini 850!
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Old 15th February 2018, 06:18 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
Hmm, not so sure, isn't Tesla a "Level 2" system, Audi claim to be first at Level 3?
This.

The D4 does everything listed also, but you still have to keep your hands on the wheel and your wits about you.

D5 you don't.

Tesla maybe more relaxed in its interpretation of "level 2", but still make it clear its the drivers fault if or when it all goes wrong!
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Old 15th February 2018, 06:49 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Here's the key text (though with fleet news, you can't really be sure they've got their facts right - they can't even spell simple words like "task" FFS! - or was that the fault of the Audi Marketing copywriter (emphasis added...)

"The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks(!!) in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control"


A Tesla does all these things and if anything they are being more modest about what their cars can do (hence the claimed "level 2"), and don't resort to artificial stunts like demo'ing autonomously driven cars which have been pre-programmed on pre-determined routes, unlike Audi.

Only one manufacturer has practical levels of autonomy now, the others just promise or make excuses for why they haven't
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Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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Old 15th February 2018, 07:57 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin View Post
Here's the key text (though with fleet news, you can't really be sure they've got their facts right - they can't even spell simple words like "task" FFS! - or was that the fault of the Audi Marketing copywriter (emphasis added...)

"The system named Traffic Jam Pilot, is part of Audi's new range of AI driving assistance systems. When active, the AI Traffic Jam Pilot takes charge in slow moving traffic, controlling all necessary driving functions up to a speed of 37mph.

It will be the first technology that could enable a drive to perform other taks(!!) in the car and not pay full attention to the road, as it can handle starting from standstill, accelerating, steering and braking it its lane.
When certain conditions are met, the driver is notified that they can take their hands off the wheel. As soon as the system reaches its limits, the driver will be alerted that they must regain manual control"


A Tesla does all these things and if anything they are being more modest about what their cars can do (hence the claimed "level 2"), and don't resort to artificial stunts like demo'ing autonomously driven cars which have been pre-programmed on pre-determined routes, unlike Audi.

Only one manufacturer has practical levels of autonomy now, the others just promise or make excuses for why they haven't
LOL - hence are you saying that your car is illegal!?

Quote:
The use of this technology is currently prohibited by Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, which states: "No person shall drive or cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road is he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead".
Of course not, with the key difference is that Tesla still say the driver is in control when Autopilot is on- Audi are positioning that in the D5 the car is in control when driven autonomously.

If a Tesla crashes while using auto pilot, the driver is at fault. If a D5 crashes whist being driven autonomously, Audi are at fault

BTW - the Volvo system is pretty good also, my next A8 will probably actually be an XC90
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Old 15th February 2018, 08:41 PM
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briang9 briang9 is offline
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Maybe just me but not sure why one would want all this in the first place, call me old school but I actually enjoy driving...all part of the fun of car ownership I think
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Old 15th February 2018, 09:08 PM
paulrstaylor paulrstaylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briang9 View Post
Maybe just me but not sure why one would want all this in the first place, call me old school but I actually enjoy driving...all part of the fun of car ownership I think
Agreed , much of the time

But not on the M62(M1, M6, most city roads) at 08.30 or 17.00 on a week day, then I don't find much enjoyment
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Old 15th February 2018, 09:42 PM
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tc4332 tc4332 is offline
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Agree with you Paul.
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Old 15th February 2018, 10:33 PM
tintin tintin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrstaylor View Post
Agreed , much of the time

But not on the M62(M1, M6, most city roads) at 08.30 or 17.00 on a week day, then I don't find much enjoyment
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc4332 View Post
Agree with you Paul.
M60
And I agree with both of you (and Brian too): 90% of my miles in the Tesla are driven with my hands nowhere near the wheel (because it'd be a waste of time...) - whether that be on the M1,5,6,8, 42,60,61,or (heaven forbid...) the 25 or 62.

But: when I want to drive it, I can - and that's when it becomes a real driver's car, with AWD, a ridiculously low centre of gravity (no great bit lump of heavy metal spoiling that ), and instant acceleration and power delivery. No regrets, never going back again
__________________

Autos Autos everywhere...
(1) 2015 Tesla Model S: (was 85D, now 90D ). Silent and deadly, and very fast... But not as fast as Ian's M3P-
(2) 2002 D2 S8 Final Edition: Bulletproof and faultless: Brilliant Black with Extended (Red!) Leather. Three-times winner of Best D2 1st prize
(3) 1997 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo: Scots (! ) Green. Fragile, but beautiful.
(4) 2010 Fiat Panda 100HP. White Pandamonium (Final Edition!!). Pure old-fashioned 6-speed go-karting.
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