Wheel Spacers [Archive] - A8 Parts Forum

moltuae

11th May 2018, 12:19 PM

Thanks Guys.

Jim, photos would be appreciated if you have any! +++

The main reason I was looking at 20mm all round (apart from simplicity/consistency) was that the 20mm spacers are the type that bolt on to the hub. It seems that spacers less than 20mm use longer through-bolts instead (presumably because the spacer is too thin to securely bolt a wheel to).

Or have I got that wrong?

Adrian E

11th May 2018, 01:04 PM

Edit to correct:

I went for 20mm on the back of mine to avoid the use of extended wheel bolts, as I'm not a fan of that style of fitting. I never fitted any on the front, but don't think you need much to fill the arch - definitely less than the back.

H&R are a good choice

Some pics of mine in this thread:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6865&highlight=spacer&page=3

MikkiJayne

11th May 2018, 01:17 PM

I have 20mm all round with 18" Avus and they rub the dirt off the front arch liners when the suspension bottoms out. That's with 245 Goodyear Asym 3 which are like tractor tyres.

I'm putting 20s on with 255s over the weekend with 17mm on the front and 20mm on the back so I'll report back how they fit.

The 17mm spacers I have are also H&R which bolt to the hub. The spacer bolts are proud of the mounting surface by a couple of mm, but the wheels I'm using have recesses between the holes so they fit fine.

moltuae

11th May 2018, 01:23 PM

Great. Thanks for the info both +++

MJ, do you think those 17mm spacers would work with FE wheels?

MikkiJayne

11th May 2018, 01:46 PM

I'll have a look later +++

The_Laird

11th May 2018, 04:53 PM

Photos will follow tomorrow. The ones on the front, that I’m sure I bought as 10mm say 15mm on them.

As to bolt-to-hub versus bolt-through (with extended bolts), I’ve had 2 really bad experiences with the former.

The first was after having the discs skimmed in situ. To cut a long story short, the garage obviously removed the rear spacers to skim the discs and didn’t torque one of them up properly. But the wheel bolts were done up correctly. Result - the wheel came off on the M6!

Second, another garage over tightened the wheel to spacer bolts and stripped the thread (it’s only a shallow thread into aluminium). So I had to have the spacers replaced and, because the bolts that secure the spacer to the hub are recessed, theye were a real PITA to remove.

So, I’m now a bolt-through convert! :)

moltuae

11th May 2018, 05:05 PM

Interesting. I was thinking bolt-on would be better and safer than bolt-through. Hadn't thought about those kind of potential issues. Hmmm ...

David's8

11th May 2018, 06:10 PM

I have to say that I cannot see that there is any mechanical advantage of "bolt into" rather than "bolt through". In fact, the opposite would seem to be the case and I am sure that, as Jim says, there are real issues with the former. It just seems to me that through bolting is more secure as long as correct tensile strength extended bolts are used. I have 15mm hub centric pacers on 18" Avus and use extended bolts but even if they were 20mm i would use extended bolts.

MikkiJayne

11th May 2018, 06:27 PM

Interesting. I was thinking bolt-on would be better and safer than bolt-through. Hadn't thought about those kind of potential issues. Hmmm ...

I don't like the bolt-through ones purely because they're such a pain to line up to put the wheel on. I have those on the racecar because I need 12mm, but that has studs to suit so I can change the wheels easily.

H&R are the only bolt-on spacers I would use because they have steel inserts in the aluminium spacer so you can torque them properly, plus they have TÜV approval. There are some on ebay made by 'Bulldog' which I wouldn't touch with a long pole - they have no centering hub and the wheel bolts in to aluminium which is a recipe for disaster with tyre fitters and rattle guns.

I torque my spacers to 120Nm the same as the wheel bolts and I've never had a problem with them, but then I never let random tyre fitters near the S8 either!

For reference, the hubs in FE wheels are flat, so won't work with the 17mm spacers I mentioned earlier.

I'm bolting my new wheels on now...

MikkiJayne

11th May 2018, 07:47 PM

20mm with FEs is not going to work in the front. I'd say 10mm is probably max with 255s. 20mm will be fine in the back though, but with 10 on the front you'll have to use bolt-through anyway so you can pick what you want for the rear. 15mm would put the rear wheels about even with the fronts.

Big Red has bolt-through spacers but I can't remember the sizes. Maybe Dean will.

My new wheels are effective ET 43 in the front and 40 in the back so I have more clearance than before which is good since 20mm all round with the balloon Goodyears was a bit tight. Looked good though :D

moltuae

11th May 2018, 07:51 PM

Great. Thanks +++

The_Laird

12th May 2018, 10:17 AM

I don't like the bolt-through ones purely because they're such a pain to line up to put the wheel on. ..

There should be a little tool in your boot to help with that :)

The_Laird

12th May 2018, 10:30 AM

Here are the pictures. I have 15mm on the front and 20mm on the rear

moltuae

12th May 2018, 10:46 AM

Thanks Jim! +++

tc4332

12th May 2018, 11:39 AM

Problem with "The Little Tool" is that it is only plastic and if big fingers have been there before you the the thread could be damaged.
Mine was.
Last week I managed to clean it up and it was a big help.
All I need now is my strength back, I can't lift the bloodie wheels anymore. :-(:mad:

I had to use a spade as a lever.

HPsauce

12th May 2018, 11:49 AM

All I need now is my strength back, I can't lift the bloodie wheels anymore. :-(:mad:It's reasons like that why I have a tame mobile tyre fitter that I trust. He has all the gear to do a job quickly and effectively. Also happy to call by and do small jobs between major callouts.

He's quite a petrolhead (has various track cars) so understands that I, and people like me, cherish our cars. He really likes the S8 with 20's on. +++

MikkiJayne

12th May 2018, 11:57 AM

There should be a little tool in your boot to help with that :)

If it hasn't snapped because of the weight of the wheel! :ROFL:

I have a pair of steel versions in the workshop, but its still a pain to do, especially if the disc drops off the hub too. Bolt-on spacers hold the disc in place which is immensely helpful when working with the wheels off +++

I think it boils down to who looks after the car and handles the wheels. If you do it yourself there are several advantages to the bolt-on type, but if you have someone else do it there is less to get wrong with bolt-through :)

tc4332

12th May 2018, 12:03 PM

It's reasons like that why I have a tame mobile tyre fitter that I trust. He has all the gear to do a job quickly and effectively. Also happy to call by and do small jobs between major callouts.

He's quite a petrolhead (has various track cars) so understands that I, and people like me, cherish our cars. He really likes the S8 with 20's on. +++

I have one of them, but he goes on holiday and other rather unhelpful things, AND he does not fit in the boot for problems on the road.
BUT then again my friendly spanner man has similiar problems.
I do know a fuel tanker driver, but he is also very unhelpful character; just like my bank manager, he will not let me have any free samples.
Oh dear, I could go on all day like this.

The_Laird

12th May 2018, 12:16 PM

I have one of them, but he goes on holiday and other rather unhelpful things, AND he does not fit in the boot for problems on the road.
BUT then again my friendly spanner man has similiar problems.
I do know a fuel tanker driver, but he is also very unhelpful character; just like my bank manager, he will not let me have any free samples.
Oh dear, I could go on all day like this.

Problem with "The Little Tool" is that it is only plastic and if big fingers have been there before you the the thread could be damaged.
Mine was.
Last week I managed to clean it up and it was a big help.
All I need now is my strength back, I can't lift the bloodie wheels anymore. :-(:mad:

I had to use a spade as a lever.

You can buy metal wheel alignment tools. Brian has one

Adrian E

12th May 2018, 12:54 PM

TPS will sell you an aluminium one for a few quid - it's called a tommy bar or fitting pin in Etka. Part number is 7L0 012 223

It's standard kit on newer 6/7/8 Audis

It's too long to fit in the space in the D2 tool kit, but there's plenty of other space in there to keep it in. Mine lives in with my electric tyre inflator.

tc4332

12th May 2018, 01:05 PM

Mine lives in with my electric tyre inflator.

I have one of them as well, but she don't half moan when I get her to move her foot up and down to operate the pump bit :ROFL:

The_Laird

12th May 2018, 01:30 PM

These are my 15mm front ones:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Spacers-15mm-2-Spacer-Kit-5x112-57-1-Bolts-for-Audi-A8-D2-94-02/162127123210?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

moltuae

12th May 2018, 01:36 PM

These are my 15mm front ones:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Spacers-15mm-2-Spacer-Kit-5x112-57-1-Bolts-for-Audi-A8-D2-94-02/162127123210?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Those are a lot cheaper than the ones I was looking at!

Presumably you've had no issues with them?

And I guess these would be ok for the rear in that case?:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Spacers-20mm-2-Spacer-Kit-5x112-57-1-Bolts-for-Audi-A8-D2-94-02/162127175125

ainarssems

12th May 2018, 08:50 PM

I have ET35 wheels instead of stock ET48 so it is essentially the same as having 13mm spacer and I also have 255 tyres instead of 245 so that adds another 5mm to outside and they do rub a bit on front but from what I gather there is a bit more space for FL as some people run 275 front / 295 rear on them without rubbing.

I am more interested about GoodYears MJ has and how she feels about them. I currently have GY Eagle F1 on S8 in a bit out of normal size for A/S8 255/45R19. I bought them second hand in 2015 I think, 2 are made 2012, 2 in 2013 - all were over 7mm when bought them. At first they were OK in summer but when the temperature dropped in autumn they did not have any grip and it has only gotten worse over time. They have worn pretty badly as well, only done less than 6k miles and already down to about 3mm and cracked tread and even worse grip. Now not much grip even in warm, today it was 17.5C I was turning right in mini roundabout, gave it some beans and rear stepped out like if it was BMW ( mine is early 1997 S8 so no ESP or traction control)

MikkiJayne

12th May 2018, 09:45 PM

There are two models of Eagle F1 on the market at the moment - the Asymmetric 2 and 3. 2s are becoming a little thin on the ground and are NLA in some sizes since 3 is the replacement.

The 2 is a splendid tyre - we have them on the TT in 225 45 18 and it sticks like glue. They're quiet and pretty good in the wet too. We should see 10-12K (15-18 months) from them which is acceptable for a performance tyre.

I bought the Asymmetric 3 for the S8 in 245 45 18, thinking they would be 'one better' than the 2s, but I was gravely disappointed. They're the ones I described as 'tractor tyres' - they're soggy and bouncy and have little to no feedback, and they're pretty noisy. Plus they have a very ugly balloon-like sidewall so they make me cross every time I look at them.

I've just bought a set of Asymmetric 2s in 255 35 20 for the S8 and at least they have a good looking sidewall like the TT tyres do :D They won't be scrubbed in until I get to the annual meet though so its too early to tell how the S8 will behave on them.

The 18" Asymmetric 3s will be summer tyres for the Allroad.

moltuae

23rd May 2018, 08:11 PM

Well, I had the spacers fitted today (along with new Michelin PS4 tyres and newly refurbished wheels) but something's not right :-(

The steering feels a little more centrally weighted, which I don't mind, but the problem is there's an alternating left-right pulling of the wheel, particularly at speeds of around 30-40 mph. Is that likely to be caused by the spacers?

MikkiJayne

23rd May 2018, 08:29 PM

Hmm that's not something I've experienced with spacers before. Try removing the front ones and see what happens?

moltuae

23rd May 2018, 08:43 PM

Thanks MJ, will do.

I might have them remove all 4 for now, just in case.

Could the spacers be throwing the wheel alignment off I wonder? Could incorrect wheel alignment result in those symptoms?

EDIT: I'm wondering also if one of the refurbished wheels is bent and that maybe the bent wheel was previously on the back?

MikkiJayne

23rd May 2018, 08:54 PM

They won't affect the alignment. All they do is change the effective offset of the wheel so you have a bit more scrub radius hence why the steering feels a little different, but the wheels are all still pointing in the same direction relative to each other.

Did you go with H&R spacers? Conceivably spacers could cause a wobble if there was a bit of dirt trapped under them or they hadn't quite seated properly on the hub. It would feel like an unbalanced wheel, but you'd normally see that at higher speeds than 30-40. If a wheel was mounted so far out of true it wobbled at 30, vibration at 60 would be pretty vigorous.

Tbh it sounds like a bad tyre, but that would be unusual for a premium brand like Michelin.

Maybe before you take them off, just jack each corner up one at a time and spin the wheel to see if you can visibly see any run-out in them. Wobbling the steering wheel is definitely something on the front axle.

Spanker

23rd May 2018, 09:07 PM

moltuae

23rd May 2018, 09:10 PM

Thanks MJ.

I went with these bolt-through spacers in the end:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Spacers-15mm-2-Spacer-Kit-5x112-57-1-Bolts-for-Audi-A8-D2-94-02/162127123210
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheel-Spacers-20mm-2-Spacer-Kit-5x112-57-1-Bolts-for-Audi-A8-D2-94-02/162127175125

I'll get them checked out.

You don't think one of the refurbished wheels might be a little bent? Would that give the same symptoms?

MikkiJayne

23rd May 2018, 09:25 PM

I don't know much about the spacers on Big Red.
They were on the car when I bought it.

I've not even measured them to see f they are the same width front/back.
In fact, I'll know less than MJ about my own spacers.
All I know is that they make the car look better. :)
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

I wouldn't know if they were "bolt-to-the-hubs" or "bolts-straight-through" spacers. And I don't even know if they would be suitable to swap over to the S8 either (I don't know if the suspension on an S8 is that much different to that on a 2.8QS, possibly resulting in any clearance issues that I don't currently get with the 2.8).

They are bolt-through, 15 front, 20 rear iirc. They will swap straight over to the S8, including the bolts.

You don't think one of the refurbished wheels might be a little bent? Would that give the same symptoms?

A buckled wheel could do that, but it would have to be pretty bad. I think try jacking it up first and see if there is any visible run-out. A simple trick is to put something heavy just barely touching the edge of the tyre (brick, can of oil etc) and spin the wheel by hand. You'll hear and see if there is any run out as it intermittently touches and doesn't touch the heavy thing.

One other thing - did you get those exact bolts in the listing? They are taper-seat and for aftermarket wheels. If you're using genuine FE wheels then you need radius-seat bolts. Big Red was the same so I swapped them out for the proper ones. They shouldn't cause a wobble, but they won't torque up properly and put all the load on the wheel in the wrong place.

Taper vs radius:

https://www.raceways.co.uk/images/wheel-bolts-14mm-taper-dome.jpg

moltuae

23rd May 2018, 09:38 PM

Thanks!

Not sure about the bolts. I'll check tomorrow.

David's8

24th May 2018, 09:30 AM

The only issue I have ever had with spacers was when using some non- hub- centric spacers. As it was well nigh impossible to centre them exactly to within <1mm they induced a high frequency vibration which increased with speed. But as yours are hub-centric then this issue shouldnt apply. My guess is, as suggested by MJ, that the faces arent scrupulously clean and the wheel is therefore out of alignment.

moltuae

24th May 2018, 03:09 PM

Taper vs radius:

https://www.raceways.co.uk/images/wheel-bolts-14mm-taper-dome.jpg

This was the cause :rolleyes: Well spotted MJ! +++

Funny thing was, the brakes were behaving oddly too; more pedal travel than usual. Pumping the brake pedal would bring the pedal travel back to normal but only for a few seconds. Couldn't possibly be related to the wheel wobble, or so I thought ...

Turns out the studs had worked a bit loose because they were the wrong profile. My mechanic's theory on the brakes issue was that the discs were moving a little too, pushing the calipers back. I suspect he's right because the wheel wobble has gone and the brakes are back to normal now that we've removed the spacers.