Volvo with Launch Control...

[HPsauce]

I don't know yet if it's true, but I was told today that my little Volvo V40 has launch control. :eek:
It's 4 years old and I never knew! Just need to verify if it's true, at least the roads are quiet. :rolleyes:

Apparently you just put it in Sport mode, left foot hard on the brake, floor the loud pedal and wait for the revs to settle at 2500rpm then lift your left foot.

Given it's got 4WD and well over 250bhp (after the Polestar upgrade which optimises mid-range torque) in what is effectively a Ford Focus body that might be "interesting"...… :D

[paulrstaylor]

I don't know yet if it's true, but I was told today that my little Volvo V40 has launch control. :eek:
It's 4 years old and I never knew! Just need to verify if it's true, at least the roads are quiet. :rolleyes:

Apparently you just put it in Sport mode, left foot hard on the brake, floor the loud pedal and wait for the revs to settle at 2500rpm then lift your left foot.

Given it's got 4WD and well over 250bhp (after the Polestar upgrade which optimises mid-range torque) in what is effectively a Ford Focus body that might be "interesting"...… :D

How long is your driveway? :ROFL:

[Adrian E]

Our S5 has it, but it's never been used. feels far too much like drivetrain abuse to attempt it! I'm sure it's mainly there to deliver the quoted 0-60mph times in the brochure, with little regard to mechanical sympathy :ROFL:

[tc4332]

I have actually done it a few times in my D4 and can vouch that it works.
Bit like going over the top on The Big One at Blackpool.

[HPsauce]

Well I never tried it in the end and now I maybe never will. :mad:

The little Volvo was exhibiting some occasional and weird symptoms. Low coolant (very rarely) and cabin heating not working (intermittently).
It went in for annual service on 17th March and I haven't seen it since!

It's been a long and sorry tale and at one point they said "it's all fixed now we're bringing it back to you". Followed by a call 10 minutes later "It broke down on the way to you with the same problem....".

Anyway we do currently have a brand new Volvo XC40 B5 on loan, though for quite a long while we had nothing!
And the S8 going down to MJs was an added spanner in the works, but that was going to happen whatever! :ROFL:

Finally today, after 2 months messing around and shipping it to a larger branch of the dealership, and with direct involvement of Volvo UK technical they have a diagnosis.

Cylinder 2 liner is leaking, confirmed using a boroscope....... New engine required. :eek:

Over to Volvo UK for a response, it has done less than 28,000 miles and has a full Volvo service history.

[steamship]

Cylinder 2 liner is leaking, confirmed using a boroscope....... New engine required. :eek:

Over to Volvo UK for a response, it has done less than 28,000 miles and has a full Volvo service history.

WOW! That's going to be an interesting topic of conversation, depending on what Volvo UK have to say. Let's hope common sense prevails.

[HPsauce]

That's going to be an interesting topic of conversation, depending on what Volvo UK have to say.So far nothing..... the dealer have let me know today that they are still (after over a week) awaiting a response from Volvo UK on costs of a new engine.

[tonupkid]

That is horrific Andrew. Lets hope Volvo do the decent and put it right for you without charge.

[HPsauce]

Sadly that's not looking likely. They've made an offer but it's not that good and based on a very high base price. When challenged with some powerful points they wouldn't move. :-(

[Adrian E]

Sounds like you may have to go legal….

[MikkiJayne]

They've taken the Audi model of customer disservice then :(

[HPsauce]

Sounds like you may have to go legal….
Not sure the best way of doing that? Get it fixed first or not?

[paulrstaylor]

I was expecting them to play nice, my Dad has a D4 V60 that had a top end rebuild FoC out of warranty because of an issue caused by a common EGR failure. He was put in a brand new car for three weeks and there was zero cost to him.

A few weeks after it was fixed, his car was stolen and written off - can't blame the dealer for that.

[Adrian E]

Not sure the best way of doing that? Get it fixed first or not?

Best to get some advice (house insurance will usually include legal cover) but I suspect that depends on how badly you want the car back to working condition - leaving it at the dealer has some benefit (it's in their way, and they'll be reminded why it's there) but similarly it leaves you a car down and there's a serious risk of the Volvo picking up damage while it's sitting at the dealer.

You could, with legal advice, consider a letter before action and if that doesn't work make it clear that if you're paying for the work to get the car back it is with the intent to take them to court for failing to fix it FOC.

Legal action isn't a panacea for this sort of thing, but if they think you're serious there's more chance they'll cave in before it gets to that point. There's a bloke on Pistonheads with a Civic Type R who has been without his car for over a year while he faffs about considering legal options.....

[HPsauce]

Well I've asked for a number of things in writing and they have acknowledged that request and said they will progress it, i.e. nothing (yet) is deemed unreasonable.
In summary there are said to be multiple problems, so:
1. Relevant data from onboard diagnostics, with time/date stamps. When were the first symptoms recorded? (Presumably examined at annual services)
2. Volvo head office explanation of what happened in what sequence?
3. Detailed breakdown of work and costs (parts/labour) so far incurred and Volvo agreed contributions to those.
4. Same breakdown and contribution offer re recommended work (i.e. new engine) and what warranty will apply.
5. Analysis of overlapping/duplicated/superfluous work if engine is replaced (e.g. components already changed, serviced, etc.) and how that will be treated.
6. Explanation from Volvo of why they have offered only a 60% contribution so far and to what exactly that applies.

I've reminded them that they've taken nearly 3 months to get here and I've done nothing to delay them!
Car will be SORN'ed after tomorrow and they know that.

I need to check what legal advice I can get, but I need everything in writing anyway.

Edit. It seems my Motor policy on the Volvo may provide some initial help:
Motor Legal Advice Helpline
You have access to a 24-hour legal advice helpline based in the UK – providing confidential legal advice on any legal matter relating to the use of your vehicle (e.g.
private vehicle sale).
There are no consultation fees; all you pay for is the phone call.
(Just need to find the number to call......)

[HPsauce]

Well even allowing for the bank holiday, well over a working week has passed and still nothing back in writing, just a couple of "holding" emails.....
The most recent did say that they are "waiting on Volvo to come back on a couple of items" and "looks like the overall cost on the labour will come down".
I wonder what that all means? :Confused:

[steamship]

I wonder what that all means? :Confused:

Frustratingly, it sounds like the common sense approach is out the window and to quote MJ...

They've taken the Audi model of customer disservice then :(

[tonupkid]

Andrew if you are a member of either the AA or RAC it might be worth having a word with them.

[HPsauce]

Andrew if you are a member of either the AA or RAC it might be worth having a word with them.I'm not, but what were you thinking of?

As noted above I have access to motoring legal advice via my Insurance on that car.

[tonupkid]

I'm assuming that the AA & RAC perhaps have some experience with situations like this and that there may be some kind of precedent that could be called upon to prosecute your claim (not legally but persuasively).
Your probably already aware of how these issues can get out of hand. People will happily suggest getting the legal. Which is not always a great option because it can end with you winning while also bearing significant expense. Not to mention the emotional toll.
Once you have clarification of what their offer actually represents use that as a base from which to negotiate better terms.
Best of luck however you take this forward.

[HPsauce]

Well I've finally got SOME answers in writing, though not really as much as I wanted/hoped for.

Volvo won't move on the 60% contribution, but the dealer seem to have pared down some of their charges and a few items (mostly re diagnostics and failed repairs) are no longer apparent so the overall final bill will be a bit less eye-watering.

One of the factors Volvo say they use in considering the level of "goodwill contribution" is your history of buying Volvo cars.
I've asked the dealer to go back again and point out that, having had company cars all my working life I have no history.
But that this was the first new car I'd bought with my own money in 40 years (true!) so maybe they should think of me more as a future customer?
After all we're in a demographic that must provide a significant part of their business! :ROFL:

[steamship]

One of the factors Volvo say they use in considering the level of "goodwill contribution" is your history of buying Volvo cars.

The fact that a fully Volvo serviced car requires a new engine after only 28,000 miles seems to have slipped their minds. Outrageous!

[Adrian E]

Surely they should also look at the likelihood of you buying another Volvo in future, if they stiff you on the repair of this one?!

Have you managed to get a legal opinion on your chances of success if you pursue the court route?

[paulrstaylor]

Where did you buy the car and how long have you owned it?

"The legal route" would be to bring a case against the supplier, not the manufacturer or the service agent (unless they sold you the car)?

[HPsauce]

I bought it from a non-local Volvo dealer (still in business), but not the (local) one who have serviced it for its entire life.
It was a quite rare specific model with options that were not that common and took some finding.
It was actually ordered as a demonstrator that met both the dealers and our requirements on the understanding that we would then (probably) buy it after 3 months, which we did.
Our local Volvo dealer, rather oddly, is just service and used cars, they don't sell new! Though other locations in the group do.
So a bit complicated....

And the local dealer are really just "piggy in the middle" though they're also a bit low on skills which doesn't help, but part of a larger group.

[paulrstaylor]

So you would have to bring a claim for the cost of repair against the supplying dealer that the car they supplied was defective, and therefore not fit for purpose. Have you spoken with the supplying dealer to see if they can help with the issue?

How did you pay for the car? Was there any form of credit, even a credit card deposit?

[HPsauce]

Good point re contacting the original seller, they will not want to be dragged into this so should be motivated to get Volvo to sort it out.
No credit that I recall, it was 6 years ago!

[paulrstaylor]

To be fair, 6 years is probably pushing the time limits, but can't hurt to involve another dealer in the process and see if they can apply some pressure on your behalf?

[sarg]

One of the factors Volvo say they use in considering the level of "goodwill contribution" is your history of buying Volvo cars.

We had the same when our last Mini needed a new main wiring loom, luckily it was our 3rd Mini, which alongside 20+ BMWs over the years was more than adequate for them.

Interestingly a couple of those I think were company cars (albeit I owned the company), but they were as interested in my history of sevicing and maintenance custom as the car purchasing.

I've been using the same dealer, all bar the odd occasion, for almost 30 years so that stood us in good stead too. (Only ever used them for service mind you, only ever bought one single car - the Mini in question - from them as their sales staff never deliver)

It all goes to highlight that, right or wrong, a good relationship with your dealer's service staff is an important factor.

[HPsauce]

Unfortunately, while I had company cars throughout almost all my working life, Volvo was never an option, so I don't have that history, just the last 5-6 years with this car.
So you would have to bring a claim for the cost of repair against the supplying dealer that the car they supplied was defective, and therefore not fit for purpose. Have you spoken with the supplying dealer to see if they can help with the issue?

How did you pay for the car? Was there any form of credit, even a credit card deposit?
I just checked and did indeed pay £1000 deposit by card, not sure how that helps though.

Edit: I have now spoken to the Sales Manager at selling dealer. He was helpful but did say that once Volvo made a goodwill offer they tended to stick with it, but he would call them anyway. He clearly did not want to get caught up in any legal claims so hopefully that will add a bit more motivation.

[ainarssems]

If you paid part or all amount by credit card or any other form of credit and purchase price was between £100-30k you get extra protection from lender as they are responsible for goods as well.

[pete-p]

I just checked and did indeed pay £1000 deposit by card, not sure how that helps though.

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. So long as the car wasn't more than £30k you can raise a claim with the credit card company as the vehicle quality was not good enough.

[HPsauce]

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. So long as the car wasn't more than £30k you can raise a claim with the credit card company as the vehicle quality was not good enough.Unfortunately it was, so that avenue is closed. :-(

[pete-p]

Unfortunately it was, so that avenue is closed. :-(

Maybe not...

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/goods-services-bought-credit

In certain circumstances where the cash price is over £30,000, a credit provider might still be responsible for what has happened under Section 75A. If you think this applies to you, contact us.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75A

[paulrstaylor]

As others have stated, s75.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/

When I bought my RS4 there were a number of undisclosed issues which the supplying garage was not interested in at all, I called my card provider and brought a claim under s75. They requested an independent report on the car, which I got. They agreed to settle at the full cost of repairs which amounted to a large sum (thousands), if we hadn't come to an agreement they would have refunded in full and taken the car away!

It was <£30k in my case, sadly I think not going to work in your case as s75a relies on the credit being tied to the item purchased, so car finance would have worked but a credit card probably not? https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#over30k

I'd still be contacting the supplying dealer to get their views and support, but ultimately you might have to suck it up as any offer you are getting at present is goodwill!?

[HPsauce]

Yes I think you're right. After a further round of discussions, with no really significant improvement, we've told the servicing dealer to proceed with the engine swap.

That doesn't mean we've given up on hassling Volvo, but we do want the car back and working and will probably pursue them further once it's fixed.
I'm sure if this was a diesel engine they'd be being a lot more generous :tuttut:

I think having picked up my S8 from the D2 Doctor has maybe put me in a more positive mood as I know that almost anything on a car can be fixed with appropriate ingenuity, but a borked cylinder/block isn't one of them.
And at the end of the day it's pretty much just a tarted up Ford Focus, apart from the engine. :cool:

[paulrstaylor]

Not exactly a happy ending to this story, but at least it will end and you can use the car again! Hopefully no delay and smooth sailing from here, painless apart from the bill!

[HPsauce]

I'm told the work is finished but the car needs to be returned from the (larger) dealer branch where it was done back to my local branch.
I'm very sceptical, having received cars back from major work in the past, that it will be 100% so have a list of things that need verifying or attention.

At best they will have put it all back together, checked the engine runs and plugged in a computer to check all systems report they're okay. Doubt they'll have given it a serious "real world" checkout. I've asked the local dealer to do that and also for me to have a test drive before accepting it back. It's been away four months now so I've asked for a fresh MOT and service due date to be revised to 12 months from now!

I've been through my checklist with the service manager and hopefully will get it back early next week. None of my points got a verbal rejection or were deemed unreasonable.

[HPsauce]

I've asked the local dealer to do that and also for me to have a test drive before accepting it back. It's been away four months now so I've asked for a fresh MOT and service due date to be revised to 12 months from now!

I've been through my checklist with the service manager and hopefully will get it back early next week. Constructive response so far, I think they're just glad to get rid of it! :ROFL:
Should get it Monday.

Only thing in doubt is taxing it (currently on SORN) as with a new engine it's possible DVLA will issue a new V5C. Until I get that the old one could be no use for getting it road legal again!

[MikkiJayne]

Tax it with the old one and then send the new engine number to DVLA +++

[HPsauce]

Will do. +++
The dealer had given me the impression they would notify DVLA directly, potentially putting me in a catch-22 situation, but that was incorrect.

Though the invoice I have doesn't even specify the engine number or that it's a like-for-like replacement, so I've asked the garage for all that on headed paper.

[paulrstaylor]

Tax it today, worst case, you lose a month?

[HPsauce]

Tax it today, worst case, you lose a month?Already done. :cool:
As soon as I discovered the dealer DIDN'T notify DVLA of the new engine (I had to, and as MJ said will do that later) AND they had given it a new MOT I taxed it. Only £15 a month anyway. :D

Edit: Oddly the MOT shows up online almost immediately, the tax doesn't and DVLA say it may take 5 working days!

[HPsauce]

Finally got it back today. Also needed both batteries replacing which was done FOC.

[paulrstaylor]

Batteries sound like a small win, aside from that is everything okay?

[HPsauce]

So far so good, but there's so much tech in the car that potentially could be disturbed and need recalibrating that I just don't know yet.

[HPsauce]

So far so goodWell maybe not....
I was looking closely at the engine, trying to find a label to confirm type and serial number. Mainly to update DVLA records but also to satisfy me it was the right engine!
Found the label which was all good, though difficult to get at and photograph.

Funny thing is, I've been driving gently (old school running in habits die hard) but SWMBO came back the other day complaining that it felt a bit sluggish....
Then I found this on the air intake, just after the MAF, could well be the reason:
http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=28782&stc=1&d=1658601710

Easy enough to sort out, but what else has been done sloppily? :mad:

[HPsauce]

but what else has been done sloppily? :mad: Well today I found the front wheels had swapped over, so the directional (Michelin CrossClimate) tyres were rotating the wrong way. :mad:
Given the ludicrous hourly rate paid to the Volvo dealership (name and shame time, Endeavour Volvo Cars - Slough) what has it cost me/Volvo for this silly basic error?

I called the dealer ASAP and they are sending a mobile tyre man to swap them back.
I'm not sure what a couple of months use will have done to them though. The back ones were fine as they hadn't been touched.

[Adrian E]

Hi Andrew

It shouldn't have done any damage - it just means the tyres wouldn't have been able to deal with heavy rain as effectively as when they're fitted the correct way round. The tread pattern is designed to cut through water, but when they're incorrectly fitted the water gets 'stuck' at the bottom of the V and you're more likely to experience aquaplaning.

I agree that it's a pretty basic error for a dealer's mechanic to be making.....

[HPsauce]

Thanks Adrian, I thought as much.
However for a seriously safety-focussed company which Volvo professes to be that's a significant error.
And if something untoward had happened my insurers would no doubt have used it as an excuse to restrict their liabilty...... :tuttut:

[steamship]

And if something untoward had happened my insurers would no doubt have used it as an excuse to restrict their liabilty...... :tuttut:

My thoughts exactly... Sir incorrectly fitted tyres to vehicle, therefore insurance is void.

[Adrian E]

If it had been a contributory factor in any accident, then it might've impacted on how the insurer chose to handle it (most likely based on a police accident report highlighting the error as a likely contributor), but the insurer is on the hook to deal with a claim unless there are very specific circumstances that allow them to come after you personally for recompense.

Luckily in the time you've had the car back I think we've only had a couple of days with heavy rain so the chances are you've not driven it at a point where the error has had a consequence, fortunately. My dad drove his Saab 900 Turbo soft top with a pair of incorrectly mounted directional tyres for about 3 years before noticing.....it never tried to kill him in wet weather.

In this case the dealer has failed to carry out a service (repairing the car) using 'sufficient care and skill' in trading standards parlance. The fact they're sending out a mobile fitter to resolve is a good thing, but depending on how apologetic they appear you could push for some further goodwill (depending on whether they've already given you anything for the engine failure and slow repair)

[HPsauce]

Thanks Adrian. I demanded a mobile fitter came to me; they didn't argue and organised it PDQ. They will be here tomorrow morning.

I've also notified Volvo Customer Care (ongoing discussion there anyway) who have given some compensation in the past. We got a Fortnum's hamper initially just for the slow diagnostic process! After lengthy discussion Volvo (Head office I think mainly) paid a significant portion of the cost, though it was way below what I thought they should.
The ongoing discussion is largely about what tests Volvo are doing on the failed engine, which has been returned to them, and what the conclusions are. That may lead to further debate about their liability and contribution.

[tintin]

Thanks Adrian. I demanded a mobile fitter came to me; they didn't argue and organised it PDQ. They will be here tomorrow morning.

I've also notified Volvo Customer Care (ongoing discussion there anyway) who have given some compensation in the past. We got a Fortnum's hamper initially just for the slow diagnostic process! After lengthy discussion Volvo (Head office I think mainly) paid a significant portion of the cost, though it was way below what I thought they should.
The ongoing discussion is largely about what tests Volvo are doing on the failed engine, which has been returned to them, and what the conclusions are. That may lead to further debate about their liability and contribution.

This sort of shoddy main dealer treatment is exactly the sort of behaviour that was a key trigger for me switching from Audi to Tesla - whom I've never had a similar issue with, in seven years.

It's definitely worth pushing/escalating if they've really messed you about, which it sounds like they have.

The fleet of performance Audis (RS6, RS7, etc, etc) which we had at our Portmeirion annual meeting were direct compensation from Inchcape for the crap treatment I'd got from their Stockport dealer, so it's worth pursuing, if appropriate ;)

[HPsauce]

I've had no response yet from Volvo Head Office about this latest nonsense, but I did only email them on Thursday afternoon....
They have always responded within a few days in the past, though I haven't always liked what they said! :tuttut:

To be fair my main complaint is against Volvo not the dealer network, it's not the dealer's fault that the engine block failed. Though they were pretty crap at diagnosing it.

[johnny_quattro]

Our S5 has it, but it's never been used. feels far too much like drivetrain abuse to attempt it! I'm sure it's mainly there to deliver the quoted 0-60mph times in the brochure, with little regard to mechanical sympathy :ROFL:

Alert - thread hijack!

Please tell me more Adrian E, as I didn't know the S5 had launch control. To me, it already has more than enough power to deal with the traffic light races you sometimes encounter. I've given it the onions from standstill but nothing more. I'd probably err on a similar side of caution as I don't want to grenade the DSG but not knowing HOW it's done is bugging me now. Can you enlighten me?

Cheers
John G

[Adrian E]

To be honest, I can't remember the process - I only bothered looking at the counter for how many times it'd been used as part of the pre-purchase inspection, as if it'd been launched a lot at 2 years old I probably wouldn't have bought it!

[steamship]

Can you enlighten me?

Check out the posts #1 and #28 in the following thread. Instructions on how to do it and vehicle requirements:

https://www.a5oc.com/threads/2011-s5-stronics-have-launch-control.14436/

[johnny_quattro]

Thanks for all the information. I shall have a read.

Cheers
John G