Supercharged Pre Facelift

[Botang]

Hi folks

Its finally here

http://www.baldrys.co.uk/Pre%20facelift%20Supercharged%20sized.JPG

Just passed MOT so we are now road legal.

Matt

[Singh]

You tease! Specs & power please and who are the guys that fitted it. Will they be doing a package? Been waiting a long time for this Matt, awesome car too.

[Botang]

Right its a supercharged A8 4.2 Quattro Sport, ABZ engine (originally 300hp) it has a 9.0:1 compression ratio and now has an Eaton M112 Supercharger producing around a 1 bar of boost.

As far as power is concerned I dont know yet, I expect it to be in excess of 450hp. It is still a bit of work in progress on that side of things so we will have to wait and see. I am on strictly limited RPM until everything has be honed/checked but I was able to drive the 300 odd mile journey home without incident although at present it has an oil leak so am in the progress of cleaning it down so that I can identify the source.

The work was carried out by JOMO engineering in Ireland but everything is most definitely custom fit, this isnt going to be any sort of kit. As you can see from the pics it has been shoe horned into the space previously occupied by the variable length intake manifold and fits snug under the bonnet. Everything from the complete breather system, throttle butterfly, belt routing, intake manifold. It is such a tight fit that both the sound proofing on the bulk head at the back of the engine and the fan blades at the front of the engine have been modified to accommodate such a large charger

[Conan_the_Librarian]

Weldone Matt. +++ Now I am going to have to find another projekt engine. Hmmmmmmmm throttlebodies?

[Botang]

throttlebody, that was the word I was looking for earlier, went with throttle butterfly instead.

[Iyole]

Gonna be following this one with an Eagle Eye...

Well done... :)

[Botang]

Before you get to excited its been a bit traumatic getting this far, in the region of 1000 hours labour over an 18 month period, my general lack of posting over that time is due to me not having the car.

[ainarssems]

Can't wait for more details. Bolting a charger on is one thing but getting it all to work is another. What ECU are You using, injectors, fuel pressure, fuel pump.

[Botang]

currently standard ecu, standard injectors, fuel pressure +1bar, fuel pump standard.

as for what they will be thats still TBC.

[daviesbike]

i cant wait to get my hands on something like this, did you use a plate to lower compression or did you change the pistons ??? also wandering as you are running around 14psi have you got an intercooler or charge cooler in mind or set up at the moment and what duty cycle are the injectors running to cope with more air ? also what about the maf did you bypass it and use a map sensor instead ? so many questions i need to ask to get this up and running

[Botang]

I have used spacer plates, i explored options of machining the heads and or the pistons or changing the pistons but met with a brick wall. There is not enough material to consider machining and changing the pistons would be seriously expensive.

The plates were made for me by Ferriday Engineering a few years ago now http://www.ferriday.co.uk/

I wanted an intercooler/charge cooler but the decision taken was that it would restrict airflow too much, in this design there is also very little room to accommodate the cooler.

There is still the possibility of going down the water/methanol injection route but we are going to get the fuelling sorted first and see where we are at. Injectors are on standard duty cycle at the minute with the 1 bar increase in fuel pressure but I am going to be replacing with them as part of the remapping process.. The car still retains the original MAF.

[daviesbike]

wow no intercooler at 1 bar boost ? thats quite an amount of boost to be running with out any cooling if you dont mind me saying, will be intresting to see it all come along, how dose the standard maf cope with 1bar boost ? as i looked into the same project and discovered that it will only process readings up to 10psi = a lean mix of fuel to air ratio. oh how think are the decomp plates to lower it down to to that ? are they about 5mm ?

have you made an intake manifold up or a plate adaptor ?

i have been looking into this for a while and im itching to get my prosess started too

[ainarssems]

MAF is in the air filter box. Looks like he kept air filter with intake and throttle body and then it runs into supercharger so MAF is metering air at atmospheric pressure.
From pictures it looks that supercharger sits upside down in the place of original manifold and a custom made manifold on top of it. 1 bar is quite a bit without intercooler but I guess there is no space to squeeze in supercharger and a separate manifold with decent sized piping to and from intercooler unless You cut a hole in bonnet.

[Botang]

Spot on

I cant recall the thickness of the plates it really has been that long since I had them made, but im sure they are not as think as 5mm, more like 2mm from memory.

I'll post a few more pics later showing some of the build process that may help

[daviesbike]

yes that will be great im thinking of starting with an eaton m12 or something similar and running about 5-6 psi boost on standard compression ratio and then when its all up and running maybe think about some plates and upping the boost, im still not sure if id be better off with a centrifugal type charger and mount it where the abs module is and have piping run round through the standard intake but finding a fair priced one is hard second hand

[Singh]

Remember Guy, there may be some differences between yours and matt's, his being a 32v and yours a 40v. But I hear the 40v is easier to do. I bet the car feels silly quick with 450 BHP eh Matt? That was an awesome car already. +++

[daviesbike]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Jaguar-Supercharger-Eaton-M112-/290577698247?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a7c7cdc7#ht_500wt_949

im thinking of adapting something like this ?? how far off is the inlet manifold from this could a plate to adapt it be made i wander ??

[Botang]

Thats basically the same charger as mine, but expect it to be very hard to fit, it Might not even clear the bonnett with that inlet manifold on it. As Singh said mine is a 32v which is very different from yours, I believe your inlet ports are flat where as mine are angled.

5-6psi is doable as its the same principle that MTM, PES and the likes use.

[daviesbike]

yes well i did pdf a format for everything il see if i can find it maybe it will help with things
but yes i think a low boost application is a good place for me to start of course its all going to take months to come together but i can think of nothing better than showing up at one of the future meets with a supercharger on a 40v v8 thats got to be a rarity in the a8 and s8

[Botang]

A few more pics for you +++

[daviesbike]

very nice pictures there i can see now how you have modified the standard intake, i would not mind seeing this in the flesh and taking note of how its al come about ect... as this is somthing i will be doing before the end of this year

[RanjS8]

i am just in awe.....
this is an incredible achievement...would love to see a step by step how to on this!!!!!!!

[Botang]

Thats what the pictures are,

1) get a big cutting tool
2) remove half the engine
3) do a bit of welding
4) fit it all back together
5) Pray it works

[Curtis]

i have been thinking of doing the same to mine. i have the same 32v abz motor. but the gearbox has been a big worry for me. have you done anything to the gearbox. what are the limits on the gearbox?

[daviesbike]

the gear box will take the power no problem you just need to get a remap by a good tuner so they can map it so it dose not give max torque until higher in the rev range and gears its the torque that will kill the box so if you can tame it then its fine :-)

[71camaro]

Anyone have a way to get in touch with the OP? I have a few questions for him...

[Conan_the_Librarian]

By OP, do you mean Botany?

[71camaro]

By OP, do you mean Botany?

Indeed, sorry, it's message board slang here in the States, means "original poster." In other words, the gent who started the particular thread in which discussion is occurring.

[HPsauce]

it's message board slang here
And on almost every UK-based Forum I'm on as well. ;)

[71camaro]

And on almost every UK-based Forum I'm on as well. ;)

Yeah, I thought it was pretty universal, at least in English-speaking lands.

[Conan_the_Librarian]

Sorry I only speak English, Gibberish and I'm able to order beer in every country if ever visited that has beer by learning to count to one and the local word for beer and please! Most languages are only English but shouted, except American English which is English shouted slowly!!!!! :D
I'll text Matt and see if he will pop on and answer your questions. +++

[Conan_the_Librarian]

Text acknowledged. He'll be on tonight. +++

[71camaro]

Text acknowledged. He'll be on tonight. +++

Cool thanks a bunch.

You're absolutely right about American English, too:ROFL:

[Conan_the_Librarian]

Yvw. +++

[Botang]

Conan has awoken me from hibernation, how can I help?

[Architex_mA8tey]

Conan has awoken me from hibernation, how can I help?

Lol welcome back mate +++

[Architex_mA8tey]

Sorry I only speak English, Gibberish and I'm able to order beer in every country if ever visited that has beer by learning to count to one and the local word for beer and please! Most languages are only English but shouted, except American English which is English shouted slowly!!!!! :D
I'll text Matt and see if he will pop on and answer your questions. +++

I'll vouch for the Gibberish that he speaks!! :p

[Botang]

Additional pictures as requested by Camaro ;)

[Botang]

those beady eyed among you may spot that the top of the inlet manifold is now thicker as the original cracked as it was too thin to dissipate the heat.

[71camaro]

I've got several questions, where to start....

I guess first, how much taller than stock manifold is the setup to the bolts? What kind of hood clearance do you have?

Did you modify the charger snout to shorten it (where the pulley mounts)? Is the charger an Eaton M112 unit?

Did you have a pulley machined for it, or was it the correct offset/number of ribs? If so do you have the stock crank pulley in place or a different diameter one for your desired boost level?

That's a start I suppose.

[Botang]

Easy answers first will update the others later today;

Did you modify the charger snout to shorten it (where the pulley mounts)?
No the snout is standard length for the unit that i have (see details below)

Is the charger an Eaton M112 unit?
Sort of yes, it is the Jaguar/Land Rover version of the M112, fundamentally they are the same just I believe it is the back of the unit where the air enters that is a bit different, and the mounting brackets on top (bottom on mine) that are different.

Did you have a pulley machined for it, or was it the correct offset/number of ribs? No this is standard for the Jaguar version.

If so do you have the stock crank pulley in place or a different diameter one for your desired boost level? We calaculated on the basis of the maximum rpm of the supercharger rather the desired boost pressure, in an ideal world the pulley would be a bit bigger to help reduce the amount of heat generated but at this ratio it is safe and works well, it could do with being a bit lower on the boost pressure maps to be more efficient. Having looked online before it was easy enough to get a smaller pulley as they are readily available as tuning modifications but I think I'd be the only person trying to fit a bigger one

[71camaro]

All good answers so far.

To give you some idea of why I'm asking such questions, I've found that BMW guys with the M62 are retrofitting a Cadillac charger based on the Eaton M122 onto their cars. They're ridiculously cheap here and have integrated chargecoolers in the manifold. My only real concern is charger height with the integrated coolers and our limited underhood space. I've got another thread that I started on the subject but am trying to have some discussions with people who have charged a D2 or a 4.2 before I move forward on the project.

[Botang]

the range rover also has integrated charge coolers but I think they are far too bulky to fit them in.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/GENUINE-LAND-RANGE-ROVER-4-2-SUPERCHARGED-OS-INLET-CHARGE-COOLER-2005-2009-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqFHJEIE88cr2Pb+BPYe33ktc!~~60_12.JPG

[71camaro]

Yeah, that's much too large. These use what's known as laminova coolers, they're small and round, GM uses them a lot, as well as some Spec racing series require them for charged cars. It's a compact design, I just fear it's a bit too tall. I can get them brand new for $600 USD. That's roughly 380 Pounds GBP. They're good for 470hp on the Cadillac. and with a pulley change or different drive ratio are capable of much more.

[Botang]

They look very neat, I suspect they could fit in ok.

Bonnett clearence or hood clearence as you crazy folks call it :) is the most difficult to guage. Originally I used a sealed rubble sack which I then sprayed expanding foam into and allowed it to set giving me a cast on the underside of the inlet manifold and on the top side the hood, giving me the exact distance i had to play with. At the moment I would say the combined supercharger and inlet manifold are no higher than the original but I would need to repeat the process to give you a proper measurement. (The hood soundproofing was removed before I started to maximise the space)

[Botang]

Added a short video/sound clip