LED porn

[johnny_quattro]

I've just swapped my old 501 bulbs which had become quite heavily 'silvered'. No idea why but those bulbs always seem to become more dull over time. I'm sure there's a technical explanation for it.

I purchased some LED bulbs on eBay from fizzmo for my facelift Xenon headlight clusters to replace what we call the sidelights - push-fit small glass bulbs. The ones I purchased were marketed as error-free/Canbus as I didn't want the embarrassment of my headlight pods flickering away like a Halfords demo car.

Four LEDs pointing to the front, and two LEDs either side of the shoulder on the LED light PCB. It took all of one minute to swap them and most of that time was spent reversing the bulbs in their holders as neither of them worked when first fitted. LED lights like their polarity ;-)

I've attached a few pictures to show the marked improvement.

[M-A8]

Very nice mate, looks +++

BUT, you parked to the kerb so close I almost got heart attack, first thing I've noticed, I'm just very @nal about wheels damaged by kerbs:D

[ScottD3]

looks good.
Cant beat a bit of LED porn.

[johnny_quattro]

It lasted all of a couple of days before my car did indeed look like a Halfords demo vehicle! NSF bulb started flicking tonight so not best pleased. A good job then that I bought four of them as I like to have spares. I thought that the side mounted LEDs may have been the problem but it's actually two out of the four LEDs that are facing forwards that seem to be the problem.

Let's hope that's the last of it, or I'll be forced into the world of yellowness again. On the subject of wheels and kerbs, I am also incredibly @n@l about that sort of thing and spent ages parking. Hang out the door for the reversing part, and then window down and look ungainly straining my greens trying to hang out of the driver's window. Millimetre perfect. Glad you spotted it and apologies for any consternation caused.

[johnny_quattro]

Weird - lights now working OK so I suspect possible problems due to heat? I noticed that the side mounted LEDs seem to be covered by the surround where you push the light in so I may need to investigate purchasing differently shaped LED lights instead. I did see tower-shaped LEDs on my internet travels and ruled them out as I thought they'd stick out too far... but with the benefit of hindsight, I might have to investigate other options.

Following on from that, one of my front fogs went bang a while ago so I looked at LED replacements. I purchased some CREE LED bulbs/lights and plonked them in. Whilst not quite as bright as the filament H3 bulbs, it now seems to match the Xenons much better. I had to kludge it somewhat as the blade terminal was slightly thinner and I bent it slightly to get it to stay securely in the connector.

[M-A8]

On the subject of wheels and kerbs, I am also incredibly @n@l about that sort of thing and spent ages parking. Hang out the door for the reversing part, and then window down and look ungainly straining my greens trying to hang out of the driver's window. Millimetre perfect. Glad you spotted it and apologies for any consternation caused.

I do same thing, like a 80 year old :D

I recommend them for sidelights, got them 2 years now
http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/501-w5w-gen-2-canbus-30-smd-led-bulbs-white-1/

You may need to stick resistors, but not sure if they are necessary on D2
http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/10w-resistors-for-led-w5w-501-233-h6w-433c/

Fog lights
I've spend 100s of pounds testing all sort of halogen replacements from top brands all the way to the bottom and my conclusion is:
If you can get HOEN from US, its a good choice but very expensive, but the ones from the following link I have for 2 years now as well and they are seriously very very very close match to white LEDs, really close.

http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/mtec-12v-55w-super-white-hid-class-upgrade-bulbs-h1-h3-h4-h7-h8-h9-h10-h11-h13-9004-9005-9006/

I'm so confident you will love them that if you don't I will give you money back for them if you don't ;)

You can still return cree leds and say they flicker or not working properly and you are not keen on installing any resistors etc or whatever, you've got 14days anyway

[johnny_quattro]

Just to confirm, my push in LED lights 501-style are no-name jobs from fizzmo which flick on/off on the NSF so I will replace that one. I noticed it flickering again but it doesn't do it straight away so I've come to the inevitable conclusion that it's either a duff LED job or heat build-up. Either way, it's getting replaced.

The foglights are CREE LEDs and work perfectly. Thanks for your helpful words of advice, as I'll definitely look into that HOEN option.

[M-A8]

Just to confirm, my push in LED lights 501-style are no-name jobs from fizzmo which flick on/off on the NSF so I will replace that one. I noticed it flickering again but it doesn't do it straight away so I've come to the inevitable conclusion that it's either a duff LED job or heat build-up. Either way, it's getting replaced.

The foglights are CREE LEDs and work perfectly. Thanks for your helpful words of advice, as I'll definitely look into that HOEN option.

It's not the heat, they just must be crap.

Honestly, try MTEC for a fraction of a cost you get amazingly white halogen, really worth getting as you get the power and light output of a halogen bulb and color almost identical to white LED.
They do 100W option as well

HOENs are very good as well, the only difference is the price +++

[ScottD3]

You'd be surprised what heat does to the LEDs.

I've repaired a couple of flickering sidelights resoldering the resisters back on and they worked fine.
Its the resisters that generate the heat and causes issues.

I don't get the point of LED or high powered fog lights, surly that kills the point of fog lights?
Bright lights don't work well in fog, the light just bounces off the fog and you can't see anything.

[HPsauce]

Bright lights don't work well in fog, the light just bounces off the fog and you can't see anything.
And it's colour-related too due to the way scattering of light by fog droplets works, which is why yellow fog lights are legal and usually work better.
LED fog lights would seem to be doubly useless. :tuttut:

[David's8]

Also, fog lights use to be designed with a very flat but wide beam intended just to pick up kerbs and other roadside objects so you could slowly proceed in real pea-soupers. The flat beam from lights mounted low down meant that backscatter was reduced. And as HP mentions yellow reduces backscatter too.

[ScottD3]

Don't fit HIDs to your fog light +++

I'm off to get some yellow film for my fogs. :)

[David's8]

Ski goggles often have interchangeable lenses with yellow for foggy days and red for sunny ones.

[M-A8]

You'd be surprised what heat does to the LEDs.

I've repaired a couple of flickering sidelights resoldering the resisters back on and they worked fine.
Its the resisters that generate the heat and causes issues.

I don't get the point of LED or high powered fog lights, surly that kills the point of fog lights?
Bright lights don't work well in fog, the light just bounces off the fog and you can't see anything.

Let me rephrase it.
I know how much heat leds produce, trust me, many burned finger tips.
I assume he would notice a hanging off resistor.
I've tested several 501 leds which flickered straight from the beginning before they got hot and some after few hours even if resistors were still in place, and that's what seems to be happening here.

The link for 501s I posted is something I've got for 2years now and no issues, first they were on 10w resistors and now without after coding DRLs and Sidelights together, no issues.
Another example why cheap **** can be ****, as Johnny said they are not branded or anything like that so I assume they are cheap.
So another reason why its worth spending 15quid on a pair of decent 501s, one, they will last no matter what heat they generate, two, you wont have to constantly fight with them (replacing), removing air intake etc.

In regards to fog lights, I agree, white light is almost pointless, that's why proper fog lights are properly yellow, more than a standard halogen.

For me it's purely the look as I did sometimes had fogs on during the day, mainly when traveling with speed of light (more lights on more visible I am) and occasionally just for .... I don't even know how to call it)

LED fogs are nice if you don't use them as fogs, if you driving around with them on at all times or most of the time.

[ScottD3]

The resistor don't need to hang off for it to cause an issue.
It could just not be making a solid connection.
A quick resolder fixes it or it has fixed it in the past for me.

Really cheap LEDs are not worth the risk but I would not want to spend over the odds on LEDs. There are some stupidly expensive ones out there.

Fog lights are fog lights, they are not driving lights, looking cool lights, driving round town in your car lights or rain lights.
They are designed and built for us in foggy conditions.
I can't see what benefits they have for anyone who drives with them on during the day or during dry fogless conditions.
Its a massive bugbear of mine but its something I need to ignore I think as it appears that manufactures have started using them for turning lights and DRLs.

Why DRLs? was sidelights never enough?

[David's8]

Why DRLs? was sidelights never enough?

Its my understanding that those sidelights are, in fact designated and designed as parking lights (for when parked in unlit areas) and were not intended to used as "running lights" despite the fact that they are used (and are useful in many circumstances) as such. I have no idea what the UK Construction and Use regulations say about DRLs.

[HPsauce]

They are actually called position lights in the legislation.
And in general they have to be on when it is "dark" (as defined in the legislation) at all times, whether in use or parked.
There are exceptions for parking in defined areas such as most 30mph zones.

The parking technicalities seem to be largely ignored.

[ScottD3]

My main issue with DRls really is the fact that they are normally brighter than any other light on the car.

I've seen a couple of people driving round when its getting dark with the DRLs are and no side lights. so you can't see them from the back.

Never used the parking light side of things on the cars.
Worked with a guy in a garage who use to use his all the time when parked on the side on the side of the road but he was from germany, so I guess they used it all the time?

[johnny_quattro]

I will admit to being a Honda man a while back, as I had a 4 wheel steer Prelude of '89 vintage. It was a very good car although not quite in the same league as our cherished A8s. That was the only car that I'd owned that had proper yellow fog lights, installed at the factory. I did think that I'd be able to change the 'yellow' bulb for a white one but if I recall correctly from memory, there was a yellow glass diffuser or something within the foglight itself and a standard white light foglight bulb. I only had the two options of either sticking with them as yellow, or replacing both foglights. I couldn't be arsed with the expense to be honest!

With regard to the CREE LED foglights, there's certainly nowhere near the same sort of light output compared to the standard halogen H3 bulbs so they now look more like positional lights instead of being vaguely useful. The original filament bulb that failed in one of my foglights didn't appear as a warning on my dashboard though? The car only seems to warn me if a brake light or similar goes bad.

Interesting to know about the light scatter with yellow fogs, proving the old adage true once again - you learn something new each day :-) I've attached some pics of my old Prelude - wheel buffs will hopefully notice the beautiful Antera 123 alloys which cost me £2,216 shod in Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres - ouch!

[M-A8]

The resistor don't need to hang off for it to cause an issue.
It could just not be making a solid connection.
A quick resolder fixes it or it has fixed it in the past for me.

I hear you Scott and agree, but he did mentioned that they were cheap

Really cheap LEDs are not worth the risk but I would not want to spend over the odds on LEDs. There are some stupidly expensive ones out there.

I agree, and 15quid for a set which will last at least over 2 years its a fair price I think

Fog lights are fog lights, they are not driving lights, looking cool lights, driving round town in your car lights or rain lights.
They are designed and built for us in foggy conditions.
I can't see what benefits they have for anyone who drives with them on during the day or during dry fogless conditions.
Its a massive bugbear of mine but its something I need to ignore I think as it appears that manufactures have started using them for turning lights and DRLs.

I agree mate, I just said that sometimes when I'm on a motorway cutting through with a speed of light I've got all the light on no matter how bright is outside, just to make my self more visible from distance, which is having whole front lit up ;)

I've noticed that as well, VW T5s from 10 or 11 plate using fogs as turning light, it's not a bad idea and cheaper than a proper cornering lights so I think nothing wrong with it

DRLs are another Health&Safety idea, being bright as f**k makes people more visible on the road in the day light, which makes roads 'safer'

[M-A8]

My main issue with DRls really is the fact that they are normally brighter than any other light on the car.

I've seen a couple of people driving round when its getting dark with the DRLs are and no side lights. so you can't see them from the back.

Never used the parking light side of things on the cars.
Worked with a guy in a garage who use to use his all the time when parked on the side on the side of the road but he was from germany, so I guess they used it all the time?

In the day light they are OK, but driving with DRLs on during the night or evening :tuttut: , stupid really.

I think they are designed mainly for dark conditions when you are parked on side of the road - side lights, which is safe as it makes other users in dark conditions aware of your car from distance because don't forget when they are on the tail lights lit up as well.

[johnny_quattro]

I do tend to use the old indicator trick when leaving my car on a road at night. Saves battery by only having one tail light and one sidelight in the headlamp lit.
What never ceases to amaze me is that of all the cars I see using this method, 80% of them seem to have the nearside tail light lit which is completely illogical. I always put the indicator stalk to the right so that the lights on that side of the car are illuminated, and hence stop my car from being hit or scraped by a passing car.

[johnny_quattro]

The OSF LED has now started flicking on and off, which is very annoying. I think the quality of the LEDs must be suspect. I'm now going to order those ones suggested by M-A8 earlier in this discussion, as I simply can't accept the reduction in quality offered by my new headlight/disco light show. The LEDs will now be placed in the dustbin of shame.

The LEDS as suggested are a tad expensive but then I guess you do get what you pay for. Plus, the design of them tends to offer my light from the shoulders which should result in a more even dish of light compared to my current LED 501s.

[M-A8]

The OSF LED has now started flicking on and off, which is very annoying. I think the quality of the LEDs must be suspect. I'm now going to order those ones suggested by M-A8 earlier in this discussion, as I simply can't accept the reduction in quality offered by my new headlight/disco light show. The LEDs will now be placed in the dustbin of shame.

The LEDS as suggested are a tad expensive but then I guess you do get what you pay for. Plus, the design of them tends to offer my light from the shoulders which should result in a more even dish of light compared to my current LED 501s.

By the way...do you have resistors installed or do D2 gets bulb warning with LEDs ???
It might be worth spending extra 5quid and get a pair of 10w resistors from same website. You will also need 4x scotch locks IF resistors are required on D2s.

When you get them to work you'll be well pleased +++

[HPsauce]

You don't generally need resistors with LED's in the D2.
But I try to buy the so-called canbus-safe LED's (with resistors incorporated) as I find some of the circuits seem to work better with them.

For really basic switched circuits like the rear numberplate lights it's probably irrelevant, but some of the interior lights do sometimes seem a bit problematic due to the electronic control circuits.

My rear centre interior lights for example don't always work properly now they have LED's in, but they're old non-canbus ones reused from my PF D2 which I'll probably change in time.

And strangely my LED numberplate bulbs both failed recently. I wonder if that's anything to do with my boot lid water ingress issues? As they're a legal/MOT issue I've just got filament bulbs in there at present. :-(

[M-A8]

The ones from the link 501s are so called can-bus ready so that would be a good start for Johnny then so resistors could be just a waste of 5quid if thats the case with D2s.

I swapped all 15 or so interior for can-bus ones and they work very well, they dim as they should, don't flicker etc for over a year now, or even 18months.

Plus the ones from the link will use more power than the original he tried purely because of having 30 chips not only 8, so consumption closer to original halogen

[johnny_quattro]

I was so annoyed last night on the way home that I pulled over when it started flicking on and off again. They seem to be OK for a while, and then start to play up. I pulled both bulbs out and was surprised to note that I didn't see any bulb warning lights illuminate on the dashboard. Oh well, not a problem as I made the journey home with no real loss of illumination.

Replacement super tower multiple LED lights ordered as suggested ;-)

[johnny_quattro]

My tower-style LEDs turned up on Friday and are now installed. Cheers for the helpful links M-A8, the output from the front headlights is now much improved. Like I said, I've binned the noddy ones from eBay. The chaps event sent me an air freshener in the jiffy bag :-)

[HPsauce]

My rear centre interior lights for example don't always work properly now they have LED's in, but they're old non-canbus ones reused from my PF D2 which I'll probably change in time.

And strangely my LED numberplate bulbs both failed recently. I wonder if that's anything to do with my boot lid water ingress issues? As they're a legal/MOT issue I've just got filament bulbs in there at present. :-(

Just a quick update on this as the rear interior light was getting worse, rarely working unless switched on locally.

I have a spare light unit with filament bulbs in so spent some time playing around just now, swapping them and wiggling bits about. Behaviour was very odd, usually OK when hanging loose on the cable and less reliable when pushed into place with the filament bulbs more reliable but exhibiting similar symptoms occasionally.
I decided it was probably a bad contact (or even dry solder joint) in the small PCB that the cable plugs onto (under the switch).

In the end I totally dismantled the LED-fitted unit and examined the PCB finding nothing untoward as it's extremely simple. So I gently cleaned and slightly bent the pins in the socket, by about 0.5mm at the tip, bending half way along, in order to make better contact with the plug.

Put it all back together and plugged in, all seems to be working perfectly. +++

Still need to do the numberplate bulbs. However as the numberplate itself is yellow I'm not sure it makes much difference.......

[HPsauce]

seems to be working perfectly. +++Or not, gone out this evening. :mad: Will investigate tomorrow.

[HPsauce]

Decided to resolder the socket pins where they join the PCB, even though there is no sign of movement or cracking.

Luckily this is dead easy and only takes a minute or two - take the unit out the car, lever out the one busbar that slightly gets in the way and work along the 6 pins with a small soldering iron melting and adding a spot more solder. They are fairly close so be careful not to short together.
Push the busbar back in and reinstall. Worked OK with no flickering or faltering and no amount of wiggling could make it go wrong. :D

Fingers crossed - again. ;)

PS Realised I'd hijacked a thread in the exterior lighting section :o . Any follow-up will be here: http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9097