Would a stripped out FL S8 manual be a good track car?

[SilverS8]

Just having some vague udeas on what to do with S8 in the future :)

1730kg is apx curb weight and that needs to go down. From the weight obsession thread it shouldnt be a problem getting it down into the 1400 range.

Car still needs to be road legal to avoid draging it around on a trailer..

From different sites i've seen that the weight of the car is balanced 60/40 and maybe not the perfect car for lets say Nurnburgring.. or?

What do you guys think?

I need a new project since my better half is refusing to let me get a R-Bike again(unless i get a rather high life insurance...:p )

[Architex_mA8tey]

A couple of our owners bought a 4.2 quattro a few years ago and between them stripped out everything they could including most of the dash and all standard seats etc but left the car road legal and drive-able. I last saw it at castle Combe race track pushing a guy in an R8 from behind and watched the R8 driver getting more and more larey with his driving as they kept squarely in his rear view mirror lol. I think there's a video on YouTube somwhere! I'm sure an S8 would be even better! Go for it!! :D

[Dave McB]

I actually started my search for an A8 by looking at that idea for a track car/European adventure car (with the premise that if it blew up then id just leave it wherever I was & fly home)

I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be a viable track project - mainly because of the complex 4x4 system, the auto box & the potential repair costs. I actually opted for a Volvo in place.

If you buy a manual version it would take some of the costs/reliability out -
BUT

Its never gonna be a cheap option - depends on how much cash youre willing to throw at a track project.

[HPsauce]

Or go the whole way and do the RS8 conversion! :eek:
(It's on a thread here somewhere)

[tintin]

I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be a viable track project - mainly because of the complex 4x4 system, the auto box & the potential repair costs. I actually opted for a Volvo in place.


A T5/T5R hopefully? +++

[SilverS8]

I actually started my search for an A8 by looking at that idea for a track car/European adventure car (with the premise that if it blew up then id just leave it wherever I was & fly home)

Well. This will not be that kinda project, but the main reason is to have a turn-key and go racing with out all the hassle of turbo's and all other stuff i have done with my RS2 and URS6.. (expensive things break all the time) and the C4 Chassis along with the B4 chassis ar not that good on the track.



I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be a viable track project - mainly because of the complex 4x4 system, the auto box & the potential repair costs. I actually opted for a Volvo in place.



The quattro system in it self i see no problem in regarding track racing. Would of course need a torsen rear diff. My only consern since i find no info on the web is how will the D2 chassis handle it selv. Will i be to heavy no matter what i do?

I have yet to try my S8 on any track but from pushing it on narrow mountain roads it feels alot more aligned and corners way better then the RS2 and S6 for sure..

Will of course need a new adjustable suspension and most likely adjustable controll arms.


If you buy a manual version it would take some of the costs/reliability out -
BUT

Its never gonna be a cheap option - depends on how much cash youre willing to throw at a track project.

Then there is the definition of "Cheap"
i Had my S6 for 13 years and put apx 10K GBP in engine and suspension (only parts cost and to many hours in the garage) It managed 460 bhp to the crank and did really run perfect, but with high pressure turbo engine somethings always brake and just maintaning is expensive and timeconsuming.

I bought the S8 3,5 years ago and got ut "cheap" £18600.. The used car marked has fallen severly so the value now might be £10000. So i see no reason to sell but insted mondify it to become the weekend racer and garage Queen :) Other option would be to buy an S4 B5 or S2 that would cost me more the value of my car. Then i would need to spend 10k again on turbo, rods, fuel system, and so on.

I do believe that the 40v V8 will be a good working horse and that the weight reduction would make the car powerfull enough withoutt going compressor/turbo

But i need some info how it behaves on the track:) So if anyone find anything please let me know :)

I could by a Manual S8 from Germany for £6500 But when the tax to bring it in here is £13000 that wont be cost effective :)

[tintin]

But i need some info how it behaves on the track:) So if anyone find anything please let me know :)


The engine is powerful enough for what you need on the 'Ring (and mine took on a whole new character on the times that I've been round the Ring in it...+++) - especially since reducing the weight, as you're planning to do, will take care of the fact that it's overweight for this purpose.

I think to be effective you'd probably need to upgrade the suspension, as the regular s8 suspension is definitely too soft in standard setup for proper track use.

[Goran]

There was a old thread somewhere on Tyresmoke, before we all migrated to A8Parts, where Botang and another chap, forgot his name, stripped out a 4.2 A8 D2 (FL?) and used it on the track. If I remember correctly their thoughts were that its a really good chassis because it is so stiff. They did a quarter mile run, the 0-60 was something like 5.7s which is faster than the book value for a FL S8 6.2s
I cant remember what weight they got it down to eventually, I think it was just above 1500kg.

Look in your service book, there is no way your auto S8 weighs 1730kg, it will be above 1800kg I'm afraid.

Just roughly, front seats -68kg (but +20 if you went with bucket seats), rear seats -30kg, spare wheel -24kg, cut out middle and rear exhaust boxes -20kg.
Also there is the carpets, not sure how much but I'm guessing 10kg.
That's the cheap stuff -132 total.

Then the expensive stuff, lithium battery -20kg, JHM lightweight discs -9kg, OZ Racing ultraLeggera? 18" alloys -20kg (my mistake not -32) (Michellin Super sport tyres). Rough estimate of cost: £3200
That's another -49kg.

Total: -200kg rounded off with a few bits and bobs (depending on your options) heated windscreen & wiring, electric sunshade all the boot tools.

Just remembered, no sunroof could be another 10kg or 20kg, anyone weighed one?

Actually, forget what I said, if they got a 4.2 A8 down to 1550kg and it started off at 1850kg which is a good average, my previous S8 was 1865 with options, then it should be possible to remove 300kg from the car. They did take literally all the trim out, dashboard, everything. A8 4.2 should weigh the same as a S8, no real difference there except options.

The problem ultimately may be that the engine hangs out over the front wheels, and the auto box weighs 145kg dry and probably 155kg realistically with fluids and flex plate,etc.
The difference between the auto box and the 75kg (85kg with flywheel) manual box in sharp turns is very noticable.

[Goran]

I found the old thread if you are interested, some nice pictures of the stripped out car.

http://www.tyresmoke.net/forum/topic/109551-8s-at-inters/

[Dave McB]

A T5/T5R hopefully? +++

Ex Liverpool traffic police T5 estate 👍

Still strong as an ox. :ROFL:

[SilverS8]

I found the old thread if you are interested, some nice pictures of the stripped out car.

http://www.tyresmoke.ne:eek:forum/topic/109551-8s-at-inters/

Thanks:)

That was really stripped out! :eek:

Just checked the vehicle registration card and it states 1825 kgs including driver. so 1750 sounds about right. Figure i'll find a weight station and check.

My weight reduction list for now:

Sparewheel 24 kgs
Battery 20 kgs
Rear Seats 30 kgs
Lighter seats 48 kgs
Exhaust 20 kgs
Carpets 10 kgs
OZ RSL 20 kgs
Rear sunshade 3,5 kgs
Rear doorcards 8 kgs
Race cats 6 kgs
SAI Parts 3 kgs
Trailer hitch apx 20 kgs

Total 212,5 kgs

This means one thing. Goran; you need to go measure some more things :)

-Bonnet
-Bott lid
-(and the rest)

+++

[tintin]

Ex Liverpool traffic police T5 estate 👍

Still strong as an ox. :ROFL:

Thought so, good choice…I shouldn't have got shot of mine, and it's never out of my top 5 wish list ;)

[Goran]

Thanks:)

That was really stripped out! :eek:

Just checked the vehicle registration card and it states 1825 kgs including driver. so 1750 sounds about right. Figure i'll find a weight station and check.


Service book weight excludes driver, but includes all fluids and full tank. So yours will weigh 1825 in original factory condition.
It will be the correct weigh for your car with specific factory options.
My previous S8 was 1865kg in service book, confirmed on weightbridge and corner weighed at a racing shop.

My current manual S8 was 1789kg in service book.
Makes perfect sense as auto box minus manual box is 145-75 = 70kg difference.

No way auto box S8 is 1750kg.
The often quoted 1725kg for a FL S8 found on the web must be for a completely un-optioned manual S8, no sunroof, etc. Even then I don't believe it. My manual S8 has very few options, no boot cd changer, no tv, no sunroof, no tow bar, no electric rear seats, no bose. It had the weird self levelling suspension but as it turns out that only weighed less than 10kg more than stock S8 suspension. So even a non-optioned factory manual S8 will weigh in at least at 1760kg and probably more.

I measured the front windscreen but no pic, 12kg. I believe if you replaced all glass with polycarbonate that could be another 20kg at least.

[SilverS8]

So according to service plan my cars weight is 1880 kgs?
If so, then the government surely lost quite alot of money when this came to Norway and taxes where paid of 1750 kgs :)

[Goran]

Yup, sorry to dissapoint you. Audi's service book weight is always without driver, with all fluids. I tested mine on a local weighbridge for trucks, and at a race shop on digital corner scales. It is quite correct I'm afraid.
European governments happily under report weight. On the previous forum one of our famous members from the Netherlands, Sven, had his auto S8 registered at a very low 1725kg. But the Audi service book weight was much more.
I don't know why they do this.
If you can find a friend that will corner weigh it for you for free/cheap it would be interesting to confirm. Alternatively, go to your local waste disposal site, they should have a weighbridge for trucks, and will charge you £5 to weigh your car. Accuracy probably wont be great, +/-10kg?

[HPsauce]

Maybe the government weights are without fluids or at least an empty tank.
90 litres of petrol, an engine full of oil and a full washer fluid bottle and cooling system adds up to a fair old bit. ;)

[awolfinsheepsclothes]

You may As well ignore manufactures figures! unladen sometimes means no fuel,oil,gearbox oil, diff oil, brake fluid,battery acid, washer fluid, This is done so the car looks lighter and more advanced in magazines. And you can't drive it like that. So the actual kerb weight is what you need. My FL S8 weighed in at 1859.5kg the last time I put it on very expensive race car corner weight scales.
(With lpg) approx 30kg extra
My spec is about average
18" wheels
The weight distribution is 1111kg front And 748.5kg rear
This isn't helped by the whole engine being In front of the axle. I think a M3s and most bmw have it behind. I'd love to have or even see a S8 track car under 1200kg. go for it

[ainarssems]

The big issue is that mist of the weight you can strip is in the middle/back so after stripping I expect weight distribution to be even more % to the front. In the front pretty much only thing you can remove to keep it road legal is AC. Well some plastic covers as well but they do not weigh that much anyway.

[Goran]

Very good point. So far most of the weight I removed is in the back. 20kg for battery, 5kg for self-levelling suspension, 3.5kg lighter wheel & removed heated windscreen control unit.
And a lot more will be from the back, rear and middle box around 20kg, one is at the back and other is near the back.
Front seats are kind of in the middle, -20kg to swap to TT recaros.
Anyone wishing to remove spare wheel (not me) -24kg, or -30kg with tools removed too.
-3.5kg electric sun shade.
Only front weight reduction will be -9kg for JHM lightweight discs.
I hope its not going to mess up my weight distribution, I'll have have it corner weighed when its finished.

Dave thanks for posting your weight, almost same as mine, 1865kg.

[awolfinsheepsclothes]

The boot lid is very light 7.9 kg with no trim or lights I've just weighed the one I got of Andy. So a carbon one would probably only half that! (And would cost £600+) You can move things backwards and fit smaller lighter ones like washer bottle airbox and SAI headlamp washers viscous fan(mine has been off for 6months now) all the impact structure stuff behind the bumper, radiator in the boot floor. If you could get the car light enough you may be able to keep std brembo's and discs (though ally bells would save a little more) and just change pad material, fluid, ducts, and flexis.
Cheers Dave
Ps headlight are 3kg each (bixenon) you could just use the outer polycarbonate lens

[Architex_mA8tey]

See Goran (and all you non-believers!). A 3.7 litre engine also helps your front end weight reduction program!! :D

[ainarssems]

See Goran (and all you non-believers!). A 3.7 litre engine also helps your front end weight reduction program!! :D

In what way? It's the same engine, what you save in pistons being smaller you gain in cylinder walls being thicker.

[Architex_mA8tey]

In what way? It's the same engine, what you save in pistons being smaller you gain in cylinder walls being thicker.

Well that ruined that joke #tooserious! :p

[SilverS8]

Finally got the actually weight of the Car..

1 Pcs FL S8 with half a tank of fuel and 2 babyseats
Total weight without driver 1860 kgs

Front axel weight : 1080 kgs
Rear axle weight. 780 kgs.

Mid-mounted engine seems the way to go:p

[ainarssems]

Well that ruined that joke #tooserious!

Next thing you will be telling that you can reduce weight of 3.7 by having less fuel in the tank because of lower fuel consumption :)

[Architex_mA8tey]

Next thing you will be telling that you can reduce weight of 3.7 by having less fuel in the tank because of lower fuel consumption :)

Good point! And very true, also I'm sure the gearbox is lighter in a 3.7 as it's not the standard 5hp24 box! :p

[B@fink]

Ahem......V6.......much lighter.......less to accelerate, better weight distribution, better efficiency. Starting point is 200hp but better 'saust, better inlet, remap, 4 shiny high lift cams and you'll be not far off the 4.2. Add to that the additional weight saving mentioned and the overweight V8 trying to accelerate the extra mass and hold a line through corners on a race track will be a sitting duck. As Mr Chapman said......simplify and reduce weight!

[ainarssems]

Ahem......V6.......much lighter

From what I have heard V6 is heavier because block is cast iron not aluminium like in V8.

[Goran]

Ainarssems is right. If you are thinking of the B5 S4 2.7 V6 Turbo, or the other similar Audi/VW V6 turbo 2.4 and 2.8, they are all heavier than the 4.2 engine.
Check out audisrs.co.uk, loads of info about that engine on there.
On the plus side though, with that engine you can mod it to over 600hp and over 600lbft.

[awolfinsheepsclothes]

Here is a interesting one on YouTube
http://youtu.be/SmhGS4yHXxo

[moltuae]

Sod weight reduction.

Get a supercharger on it! :D

[RallyQuattro]

Of course is the S8 with manual gearbox a perfect car to drive on the race track with otherwise I wouldn't drive my RS8 on the race track all the time.

Unfortunately I have both sunroof and a towbar on my car, I have removed the rear seat and changed the front seats for easier race seats then I removed the mats, spare wheel and everything loose in the car.
But I still have the stereo, double glazing and also twin turbo, twin intercoolers, big oil coolers and more.

My weight with full fuel tank and me in the car is:
Total: 1765kg
Front: 1083kg
Rear : 682kg

I have a friend with A8 with sunroof but No towbar, he have 6spd manual gearbox and rear mounted turbo he have no stereo and have taken away more parts than me, he have this weight with full fuel tank but without him in the car:
Total: 1591kg
Front: 971kg
Rear: 620kg




.

[RallyQuattro]

But I also have:
Custom built KW Competition 2-way
RS6 brakes,
Density Line lower controls arms and adjustable upper control arms with spherical bearings in front and home modified rear lower control arm with spherical bearings and aluminum rear sub frame,
LSD diff in a rear RS6 housing.
and more.

And of course my RS6 V8 biturbo engine that helps me to have fun +++

.

[RallyQuattro]

Films +++

http://youtu.be/QakcQ8_X0j8

http://youtu.be/H9d3Qzp0bnw

and two pictures from the race track.

[Goran]

That's a excellent low weight for a RS4 S8 +++
I'm jealous, I estimate my S8 (also manual) is at 1749kg with full tank but me not in the car!

I bet you saved a lot of weight with racing front seats, just out of curiosity do you know the weight of your racing seats?
I know the S8 standard Recaros weigh 34kg each which is a lot.

Also I think the rear seats weigh 30kg so that's a lot you saved there too.

Impressive!

[RallyQuattro]

RS4 ?

I think they were at around 10 kg each with mounting brackets

The big thick floor mat weighs 12kg
Now I just have a thin "speaker fabric" on the floor to cover all cables.

.

[awolfinsheepsclothes]

Awesome car!
Cheers Dave

[andycaca]

The quattro system in it self i see no problem in regarding track racing. Would of course need a torsen rear diff. My only consern since i find no info on the web is how will the D2 chassis handle it selv. Will i be to heavy no matter what i do?



if you do go ahead with this, i have a set of D2 KW coilovers that will definitely be of interest to you :)

[Goran]

10kg those are light seats!
so just a quick calc, you must have saved 58kg on the front seats, 30kg rear seats, 12kg carpet, 25gk spare wheel, thats -125kg not counting anything else.
Excellent!
I cant wait to get rid of some more weight, but mine is going to be more conservative, I'm putting in TT manual front seats 22kg each, so only saving 24kg total compared to recaros.

Also really interesting you installed a RS4 LSD rear diff, was that difficult to do or is it a more or less direct bolt in to S8 subframe?
That's one thing I would really like to do also.

[RallyQuattro]

Also really interesting you installed a RS4 LSD rear diff, was that difficult to do or is it a more or less direct bolt in to S8 subframe?
That's one thing I would really like to do also.

Why do you write RS4 every time?
RS4 and RS6 are two completely different cars :Confused:

RS6 rear diff with mounts fits directly.
But there is nothing special inside RS6, It have the same open diff as A8/S8 the only difference is the cooling plate on the underside.

What I have done is I have bought an LSD and fit it inside my RS6 diff, but that you can do also in your A8/S8 diff
I have also installed a temp sensor on my RS6 diff.

.

[nakata]

Which car is better on track, 90 quattro or RS8?
Rear LSD(torsen or something else) is great on track.

[Goran]

Why do you write RS4 every time?
RS4 and RS6 are two completely different cars :Confused:

RS6 rear diff with mounts fits directly.
But there is nothing special inside RS6, It have the same open diff as A8/S8 the only difference is the cooling plate on the underside.

What I have done is I have bought an LSD and fit it inside my RS6 diff, but that you can do also in your A8/S8 diff
I have also installed a temp sensor on my RS6 diff.

.

Sorry for confusion, I mis-read I thought you used a RS4 diff in your S8.
So its easy to fit a LSD into the S8 read diff casing? Is it a LSD from some other car or custom made?
With standard S8 open diffs I have had wheel spin and losing grip on wet round-abouts when applying power in 1st and 2nd gear so maybe a LSD will help.

[RallyQuattro]

I spent a lot of time and money on my old Audi 90q -1985 with 20v turbo engine.
with a lot of custom built parts on that car and i drove it for many years on the race track,
But even though my new RS8 weighs more I have already driven faster on the same race tracks and I have a lot more things I plan to do with this car.

The A-arms is so much better than the old MacPherson strut.
And the D2 body is much more stable.

And it is possible to reduce the weight if you like, to the same weight or lower than an old 90 quattro.
I have plans in the future to build a new light weight A8 race car without sunroof, tow bar or car stereo and with plastic windows and so on.



And No I don't have a Torsen in the rear, Torsen and quaife will work nicely between the front wheels but I would never mount that in the rear.
I have a real Limited Slip Differential gear with lamella (plated type) in the rear.
(Same type as Porsche, Bmw M3 and all other fast race track cars have.)


.

[nakata]

Good to hear this information about comparison.
A/S8 have a great potential for track car. Even with biturbo engine :love:
I have torsen diff at rear, and find a big improvment when install it. Imagine what is it with true LSD :)

[Goran]

Thanks for your advice, its good to know, LSD for the rear, and torsen for the front. I doubt I will track my car but even on the roads the front and back open diffs sometimes do not perform great.
I love the D2 platform as well, your RS8 weighs about the same as a B6 S4, a car two sizes smaller!

Is your rear LSD on your RS8 a custom made or is it from another car?

Thanks

[RallyQuattro]

There are several manufacturers out there in the world that produces these LSD for different car brands both to the gearbox and rear diff, so mine is one that is made for Audi rear diff.

If you are going to drive drag race or drift with your car then Torsen will not be good at all so then you need lsd also in the front.


And mr nakata if you have Audi V8 oem torsen rear diff mounted in your car then you should not have to much power in the engine because then it will explode.
It will only hold for maybe 5-600hp.

[Goran]

Thanks! I will remember LSD front and back to replace the open diffs.
I will ask around how much it costs to make.
I do like drag racing at GTI international and fast starts off the lights (when there is no traffic around).
Have you done a 1/4 mile or 0-60 in your car, I'm really curious how fast it accelerates with so much torque and hp and such light weight.

[RallyQuattro]

It is too difficult on the street and with manual transmission to test 0-60, but I have test from 60-125 mph

Or 100-150km/h and 100-200km/h

But this will be even better times this summer, with new larger injectors and higher boost pressure

.

[andycaca]

any change of a 0-60 comparison? my sprint car (4WD celica Gt4) can do it in a consistent 3.8 seconds. no idea on the quarter mile time :Confused:

[RallyQuattro]

I have not built a drag race car and it is difficult to do a perfect start from 0-60 with normal street tyres on the road, especially with a manual gearbox and without any launch control or other helping system on a big Audi S8 with over 800Nm
And I also don’t want to break my gearbox only to get a low 0-60 time on my car.

And with manual gearbox and street tyres, if you get a low time I would say that the credit for that is maybe 40% the engine power, 30% the grip of the tires and 30% is the driver that launch at right rpm and change gear at right time.
So there are several factors that affect the time and not just the engine power.

But if you are running on one gear 60-95 mph then it is 100% engine power which gives a good time.
But for 60-125 mph then I have to change one gear from 3rd to 4th so then it's maybe 25% of the time how quickly you can switch and the rest is pure engine power.

So best test between cars is 60-95 or 60-125 mph
Or in my case 100-150km/h or 100-200km/h

My car last year did 100-200km/h on 7 seconds

Here I found a comparion chart for 100-200 km/h times on fast stock cars but that are slower than my car :ROFL:

7.0 - Mercedes SLR 722 - 650hp
7.1 - Corvette ZR1 - 638hp
7.2 - Porsche 991 turbo S 2013 - 552hp
7.2 - Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670 - 670hp
7.2 - Mercedes SLR Stirling Moss - 650hp
7.2 - Mercedes SLS - 563hp
7.2 - Mercedes SLR - 626hp
7.2 - Audi R8 V10 Plus (2013) - 550hp
7.3 - Porsche 911 997 GT2 - 530hp
7.4 - Ferrari 458 spider - 562hp
7.4 - BMW M6 (2012) - 560hp
7.4 - Ferrari FF - 660hp
7.5 - Porsche 911 Turbo S (2011) - 530hp
7.6 - Ferrari F430 Scuderia - 510hp
7.7 - Lexus LFA - 560hp
7.8 - Lamborghini Murcielago - 580hp
7.8 - Nissan GT-R (2012) - 550hp
7.8 - BMW M5 (2012) - 560hp
7.9 - Corvette C6 Z06 - 513hp
7.9 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 - 500hp
8.0 - Ferrari F50 - 520hp
8.0 - Ford GT - 550hp
8.0 - Viper SRT-10 2008 - 612hp
8.4 - Ferrari F430 - 489hp
8.4 - Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera - 530hp
8.4 - Aston DBS - 517hp
8.6 - Porsche 997 Turbo manual - 480hp
8.6 - BMW M6 V10 - 507hp
8.6 - Jaguar XKR-S - 551hp
8.7 - Mercedes SL65 AMG - 612hp
8.7 - Nissan GT-R 2008 - 480hp
8.7 - Lamborghini Diablo VT - 492hp
8.8 - Audi RS6 - 579hp
8.8 - BMW M5 V10 - 507hp
8.8 - Mercedes C63 AMG Black - 457hp
8.9 - Mercedes S65 AMG (2008) - 612hp
9.0 - Porsche 996TT X50/Turbo 'S' - 450hp
9.0 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS - 415hp
9.1 - Lamborghini Gallardo SE - 519hp
9.1 - Audi S8 - 520hp
9.7 - Porsche 996 Turbo - 420hp
9.9 - Mercedes E63 AMG -525
10.5 - Audi RS5 - 450hp
10.6 - Audi R8 (2006) - 420hp
10.8 - Porsche 993 turbo - 408hp
10.9 - BMW M3 E92 - 420hp
11.2 - Aston Vanquish S - 528hp
11.6 - Audi RS4 Avant (2012) - 450hp
10.2 - Porsche 996 GT3 - 360hp
11.0 - Audi TT RS Plus (2012) - 360hp
11.6 - Mercedes SLK-55 Black (2006) - 400hp
12.4 - BMW E46 M3 - 343hp
13.3 - Audi S5 - 354hp
14.6 - BMW M3 E36 - 321hp
15.3 - Audi TT-S - 272hp
16.4 - Subaru WRX STi - 280hp
17.9 - Audi TT 3.2 (2007) - 250hp

[RallyQuattro]

And here are some extreme supercars that is faster than my big Audi S8
(but i hope to get a low 6sec run this summer)

chart for 100-200 km/h stock car times
4.2 - Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport - 1183hp
4.6 - Koenigsegg Agera R - 1130hp
4.8 – Bugatti Veyron - 1001hp
5.0 - Koenigsegg Agera - 953hp
5.5 – Koenigsegg CCX - 806hp
5.7 – Koenigsegg CCR - 806hp
5.8 – Mosler MT900 GTR - 600hp
5.8 - Ferrari F12 - 740hp
5.9 - McLaren 12c - 625hp
6.0 - Porsche 918 - 795hp
6.1 - Mclaren F1 - 635hp
6.1 - Porsche RUF RT12 R - 750hp
6.2 - Pagani Zonda F - 602hp
6.3 - Lamborghini Aventador LP-700 - 700hp
6.3 - Porsche 911 GT2 RS - 620hp
6.4 - Porsche RUF RT12 S - 685hp
6.4 - Porsche Carrera GT - 612hp
6.5 – Pagani Zonda R - 750hp
6.7 - Ferrari Enzo - 651hp
6.8 - Ferrari GTB 599 - 612hp

[nakata]

May be is more interested drag race on 1 mile.


pp RS8 = The ultimate car

[RallyQuattro]

Of course it would be fun to have a low 0-60mph or 0-1000 mile time, but I will not spend time and money to get that on my track racing car.

And I never need to make a quick start from zero on the race track, but I drive from 100-200 km/h all the time..


But this is not my project thread, and i wonder where this thread starter SilverS8 is?
Doesn't he have any questions ?

And will he build one S8 track car or not ?

[nakata]

I have a question, how you think about shorter differential? You can find 4.375 end rear (01R) and frond for 01E. And to make arrange of gears to be closer?
This will be better for track car, by me opinion.

[RallyQuattro]

If you have a small 4 cyl engine then you might want closer ratio on the gearbox but now we are talking about a V8 engine with a lot of torque!
And with a normal H pattern gear box with clutch every gear change take time.

But If you have a sequential gearbox then you can have closer ratio and optimize it for your power-band.

But S8 01E have close ratio same like an Audi S2/RS2 so I think it will work great for track race with an S8 engine.


But on my Biturbo V8 it was to close gears for me so I often jump from 3rd to 5th gear or from 4th to 6th gear.
So I have now put in a 01E diesel gear box in my car and I love it!
The speed I had on 6th gear on my S8 gear box I have now on 5th gear.
I think first and second gear is the same but after that it is longer between each gear.


And 6th gear is perfect for highway use when i'm driving to or from the race track.

[Goran]

I think you proved that a D2 with a manual box makes a perfect track car, in your videos you are keeping up with some really exotic stuff, light Porsches, etc.
It was funny when the little Porsche was trying too hard and spun off, thankfully he was ok. And the mustang was struggling in the bends too. 4wd is great :)

Also why would you need to spend money to get a good 0-60, you already have everything you need a twin turbo V8 and a 01E and 1765kg weight :)
I understand there's no point in logging a fast 0-60 in case gearbox gets damaged, I never do it either even with much less torque, I just do gentle starts before the clutch is fully engaged and only then floor it to the redline.

If a stock S8 01E book value is 5.4s to 100kph thats with 355hp, and your RS8 has 650hp, then I estimate your car could do 0-60 probably in just over 3.0s flat?

Has anyone ever broken a 01E? I keep reading Americans are putting it behind big-torque V8's and that it can handle something like 700lb-ft?
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?p=221427
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/24696-audi-01x-transmission-3.html

this guy does some crazy stuff to his 01E, looks like he is launching from above 4000rpm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQB5_BzVO94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Rt9mB2tpM

[andycaca]

If a stock S8 01E book value is 5.4s to 100kph thats with 355hp, and your RS8 has 650hp, then I estimate your car could do 0-60 probably in just over 3.0s flat?



to be honest, a massive chunk of time lost in 0-60 sprints is in the change from 1st to second on a manual box. even a totally perfect shift will be over .25 of a second. plus unless you are running anti-lag or flatshift the turbo will need to spool up again too.

ive spent a few years racing turbo'd cars and although i tried using a short ratio gearbox i quickly realised that with a powerful engine (mine is circa 450bhp) you are needing to shift more often and are actually slower

0-60 with the short ratio box was always 4.0
0-60 with the standard box was 3.8

:)

edit: before i got the sensible S8, i nearly bought a SLK tiptronic with 7 (or 8?) forward gears. that would have been awesome ripping through the box

[RallyQuattro]

I think you proved that a D2 with a manual box makes a perfect track car, in your videos you are keeping up with some really exotic stuff, light Porsches, etc.
And the mustang was struggling in the bends too. 4wd is great :)

Also why would you need to spend money to get a good 0-60, you already have everything you need a twin turbo V8 and a 01E and 1765kg weight :)
I understand there's no point in logging a fast 0-60 in case gearbox gets damaged, I never do it either even with much less torque, I just do gentle starts before the clutch is fully engaged and only then floor it to the redline.

If a stock S8 01E book value is 5.4s to 100kph thats with 355hp, and your RS8 has 650hp, then I estimate your car could do 0-60 probably in just over 3.0s flat?

Has anyone ever broken a 01E? I keep reading Americans are putting it behind big-torque V8's and that it can handle something like 700lb-ft?


The black and red Mustang in my Video have a lot of cobra chassis parts and they are biturbo charged, they have 2 old S2 turbos in each car, but for this year they have change engines to bigger 5.4L and the black is going for a bigger single turbo and the red car vill use belt driven Compressor but I hope I can drive faster than them again.


The problem I have is the grip on the street, So to get a low 0-60 time I can't drive on low profile 18" tires, instead I have to buy some drag race tires, but I can't use smaller than 18" because of my RS6 brakes.

The 01E is good but it is not bullet proof, I have friends with Audi S2 that destroys 01E gearbox all the time on drag race on the streets, but they drive low 9sec run on 402m so they have a lot of power.

[Goran]

Ah yes, good point about the wheels and tyres. I don't really have enough knowledge about drag racing or tracks and all the asdjustments and parts needed for each type of performance.
Its true I forget that with only 317lbft, and probably only 200lbft from 1000rpm, I don't have grip problems from a standstill. Your RS8 must have over 500lbft I'm guessing.


to be honest, a massive chunk of time lost in 0-60 sprints is in the change from 1st to second on a manual box. even a totally perfect shift will be over .25 of a second. plus unless you are running anti-lag or flatshift the turbo will need to spool up again too.

ive spent a few years racing turbo'd cars and although i tried using a short ratio gearbox i quickly realised that with a powerful engine (mine is circa 450bhp) you are needing to shift more often and are actually slower

0-60 with the short ratio box was always 4.0
0-60 with the standard box was 3.8

:)

edit: before i got the sensible S8, i nearly bought a SLK tiptronic with 7 (or 8?) forward gears. that would have been awesome ripping through the box

Yes good point, luckily with 01E there is only 1 shift to 60mph, 2nd is good to about 70mph with 18" tyres.
Its true manuals lose some time in the shift, but so much is gained in terms of weight and less power loss. Just look at D2 S8, with auto box 0-100 is 6.4s with manual its 5.4s. And Car and driver with a pro driver actually got 4.99s with a B6 S4 essentially same drive train as a S8, so with complete disregard for transmission crazy times can be acheived with a manual car.

[RallyQuattro]

500 ft lb I have already at 2700rpm

I did a power test on my RS8 in November 2012
This is my torque and hp in the engine.

1500rpm = 300 ft lb and 80 hk/ps
2000rpm = 350 ft lb and 130
2500rpm = 440 ft lb and 220
3000rpm = 540 ft lb and 310
3500rpm = 610 ft lb and 400
4000rpm = 635 ft lb and 500


Unfortunately, did a piston melt at 4300 rpm because of a bad ecu tune, but I bought another RS6 engine after that and got a good ecu tune that I have been using since then, but I have not tested my engine power again but will do it this summer.

[Goran]

That is a nice huge amount of torque!
The only thing I wish my S8 had is a bit more low down torque.

[SilverS8]

Carry on carry on.... I'm bussy eating popcorn and reading the thread +++

As of now the car is nicely placed in the garage since MOT expired 01.09.13
Got all the parts needed but with 1 kid in the hospital for the last month there has not been any time to do the Job..

As prob most of you in here there are so many plans... I for now really want an RS2 for keeps but if i manage to get the one i have in sight the 8 has to go...

So RS2 or race S8?

:)

[RallyQuattro]

The question is what are you going to use the car to?
RS2 is nice to look at but it's no big difference against a much cheaper S2.
And for the cost of a RS2 you can buy a much better RS4 or RS6.

So if you want a good looking fast all day car then Rs4 or RS6 is your choice.

But if you want a track car, well then an race S8 will be a really fun car for less money than an RS car.

[SilverS8]

Short update.

Bought an 04 RS6 today so the S8 have to go....
;)

[SilverS8]

another update...

Seller decided to keep his RS6 even if we had an oral agreement.

Found this out when sending him the contract to sign today...
Even had insurance started today...

:mad::mad::mad:

[andycaca]

sad news :(
or you could look at it this way...its a sign to buy my KW v2 coilovers! :)

[RallyQuattro]

KW ver1 or 2 works okay for track use,I think they are the best universal coilovers you can buy, my friend have v1 on his A8 race car
But if you want to drive really fast and with slick tyres then they are to soft and you need custom built coilovers for your car.

Kw ver1 / 2 has springs with this hardness:
Front 120N / mm
Rear 80N / mm

My KW Competition 2-way
Front 240N / mm = 1370lbs, but I will mount even harder this year maybe 300N/mm = 1700lbs in front.
Rear 140N / mm = 800lbs

[andycaca]

there you go then. perfect coilovers for a trackday car with trackday tyres, kumho v70 or 888's. not full slicks :D

[brasiliangringo]

The problem ultimately may be that the engine hangs out over the front wheels, and the auto box weighs 145kg dry and probably 155kg realistically with fluids and flex plate,etc.
The difference between the auto box and the 75kg (85kg with flywheel) manual box in sharp turns is very noticable.

As a side note, Goran in my opinion highlights why most Audis when pushed hard do not really give the balance and feel you need when it comes to track driving, and lets be honest, same will be true for many other brands for varying reasons, mainly as they are road cars :) The engines in many Audis are always fairly well forward of the front axel which is not the best for weight distribution (compare to an M3 or GTR for instance) but for road conditions getting big power down safely in a Quattro is as good as it gets.

[brasiliangringo]

Get an old mx5 for 1k, half roll cage, strip out, sports suspension and you will have a grin from ear to ear. Get a turbo kit of you want to really have a hoot.

[Goran]

Or if you have the cash to play around, get a LS3 6.2 litre V8, they can be upgraded to 580hp naturally aspired, with something like 560lbft torque. It weighs 7kg less than Audi's 4.2 V8 (195kg), and if you convert the car to rear wheel drive you should be able to shuffle the LS3 back towards the firewall to reduce the engine overhang over the front wheels.
Using one of the LS3 compatible manual boxes such as the T56 which weighs 56kg, you save another 20kg compared to the 01E, and probably another 20kg by losing the front driveshafts. Using some of RallyQuattros tips on weight reduction I estimate that would take this conversion to just under 1600kg without driver. That might bring the weight distribution of a D2 back close to neutral, but you lose 4wd traction. I bet it would be a hugely fun car though.

[SilverS8]

Get an old mx5 for 1k, half roll cage, strip out, sports suspension and you will have a grin from ear to ear. Get a turbo kit of you want to really have a hoot.

Over here an MX5 is 10k and i wouldn't be caught dead in a Japcrap car :)I'd rather push my Audi around+++

[RallyQuattro]

Last year 1 week before we got snow here in Sweden = It was cold asphalt I drove on.
I tested 0-100km/h with my RS8, Here's a movie on it.


http://youtu.be/tZbQu1dm8VQ

Maybe I test again now in summer when it is hot asphalt and with summer tyres on.

[1781cc]

If you do want a track car, like Audi's and 4WD, can I throw my recommendation in for a first Gen Audi TT?

Can be bought cheap, you know the brand and parts are easy to come by, fast when stripped with a few choice mods, and aside from straight acceleration are faster on circuit then a new RS6. Don't believe me? check my video from last month - and this is only running 250bhp at the moment and they can be tuned to 300bhp before rods and 400+ with Rods as the rest of the engine is already forged:

https://youtu.be/hNwc37c60co?t=2m25s

Bang for your buck, they are so much fun on track and more room for hairdryers when driving any other time (I jest...)

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i409/leewhiteheadmma/TT%20Track%20Car/Track%20Day%20290417/PR_170429_MSVT_BA_1192_zpsximeznww.jpg (http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/leewhiteheadmma/media/TT%20Track%20Car/Track%20Day%20290417/PR_170429_MSVT_BA_1192_zpsximeznww.jpg.html)

[YorkshireBloke]

Next thing you will be telling that you can reduce weight of 3.7 by having less fuel in the tank because of lower fuel consumption :)

:ROFL: :o

[Goran]

Last year 1 week before we got snow here in Sweden = It was cold asphalt I drove on.
I tested 0-100km/h with my RS8, Here's a movie on it.


http://youtu.be/tZbQu1dm8VQ

Maybe I test again now in summer when it is hot asphalt and with summer tyres on.

It looks very quick! From the youtube time alone looks like 4 seconds flat, what was the racelogic box time to 100kph?

Thanks for posting, amazing car +++

[Architex_mA8tey]

A couple of our owners bought a 4.2 quattro a few years ago and between them stripped out everything they could including most of the dash and all standard seats etc but left the car road legal and drive-able. I last saw it at castle Combe race track pushing a guy in an R8 from behind and watched the R8 driver getting more and more larey with his driving as they kept squarely in his rear view mirror lol. I think there's a video on YouTube somwhere! I'm sure an S8 would be even better! Go for it!! :D

AHA! FOUND THE yOU-tUBE LINK!!
https://youtu.be/cMOBRSwc66o

[RallyQuattro]

Unfortunately, I forgot to insert the memory card in the beginning, so I only saved the last runs on the memory card, but the fastest time is seen in the movie.
http://youtu.be/tZbQu1dm8VQ


Here are the last runs on papier and the one in black became really good at the first gear but then unfortunately a very slow shift to the second gear.

[Goran]

WOOOW!

3.4s to 100kph on the best run, and that's in winter!
That's sports car territory!

If you get a chance for a test in summer, please post it up I bet it will be even quicker.
Now I really want to test mine, I have a new exhaust I think I have knocked the weight down to around 1720kg full tank without me in the car. The stock exhaust weighed around 40kg!

[RallyQuattro]

On that 0-100 test the total weight on car with fuel and me in it was around 1620kg
And with 610 engine hp and 860Nm

But it will be at better tune for E85 and more hp in a couple of months.

[Goran]

On that 0-100 test the total weight on car with fuel and me in it was around 1620kg
And with 610 engine hp and 860Nm

But it will be at better tune for E85 and more hp in a couple of months.

That is amazing! So without you the RS8 weighs only around 1540kg. Sorry for assumptions about your weight :)
That is impressive, such a huge car with low weight, perfect track car +++

My S8 had a service book weight of 1789kg, but it had some funny options that add more weight such as self leveling rear suspension. You must have removed a lot of stuff, yours weighs 250kg less.
I bet your OZ wheels help, from memory they are something like 7kg each vs 12kg for stock 18", that's 20kg saved just from the wheels!