Retrofitting radio controlled clock
 

A8s were equipped with radio controlled clock. Clock is synched with long wave time/date transmitter in Frankfurt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Dcf_weite.jpg

Benefits are obvious -- clock is always right and no more worries with adjusting clock by one hour for daylight saving. In radio controlled clock mode we have radio antenna mast symbol displayed:

http://www.vagcom.org/wp-content/upl...k-module-3.jpg

UK cars didn't come with this feature because, I think, transmitter always sends CET time (either UTC+1 or UTC+2 depending on daylight saving time) and UK is, as always, a little bit different:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Europe.svg.png

But we have functionality to adjust time by one hour once the clock is in radio controlled mode. This feature was specifically designed for those who drove out of CET time area.

When I saw Goran's new LHD manual car from Germany I decided to try to retrofit this feature. Here's how receiver looks like. It comes with wires and 3-pin electrical connector that connects directly to unused socket on the back of instrument cluster, made specifically for that receiver.

http://as8.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=61504

Additionally, we'll need to order bracket and 3 screws that cost pennies:

http://as8.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=61505

On FL D2s standard receiver location is under the dash:

http://as8.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=61563

http://as8.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=61564

I will keep this thread updated when I finish installation.

+++:love:
Loving your work.

Nice work I did wonder about this feature

Update: This is very easy plug and play installation.

All you need to do is to plug receiver into instrument cluster from behind.
Then wait a couple of days and you'll see antenna mast symbol. This means that your clock is now in radio controlled mode.
In this mode you can't adjust minutes, but you can adjust hours. By this you're effectively telling instrument cluster the delta
between your local time and the CET time in Frankfurt.

And you don't need to remove dashboard for that. You can only remove lower trim where your knees are
and there's just enough space to connect electrical connector from the back of instrument cluster via removed knee trim opening.

I found that reception in the standard receiver location under centre of the dash is not very good perhaps because I have a-thermal heated windscreen.
Decided to secure the receiver elsewhere in the car, perhaps behind the lower right panel where most of electrical fuses are.
Undecided about exact location yet.

Pictures!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378462127

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378462127

To be continued ...

I highlighted the place where you need to look for connector if you access via removed knee panel.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378462730

View from behind the cluster (this is picture of PF cluster, but it doesn't matter):

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378463349

Also, behind the cluster there is standard recess for the radio clock receiver! It can be nicely secured there with 2 bolts from my first post. But Audi decided not to mount it there. Perhaps I should try that recess!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378462996

you will need to tell cluster that radio controlled clock is now connected. This is done with VAGCOM / VCDS.

Select adaptation channel 19. The lower bit should be changed from 0 to 1.

After installation wait at least 24 hours. Antenna mast symbol will appear during night hours and clock will be adjusted during night hours too.

That's very cool :)

Are these common enough bits to find on German ebay, if it was more or less standard fit across the '8 range on the Continent?

ETA - do you have the part number for the receiver?

For D2: (have no idea about D3 -- just use ETKA)

4D0 919 145 -- for D2 chassis number up to 4D-X-015 000
4D0 919 145 A -- for D2 chassis number after F 4D-Y-000 001 <-- I've got this one

There are receivers for other Audi models, but I think the only difference is the length of cable supplied and shape of plastic box. I believe they all work the same way. For instance, we have 8N0 919 145 receiver from Audi TT and it looks like this:

http://www.vagcom.org/wp-content/upl...k-module-1.jpg



Bracket and bolts for D2 if you need them:

1 x 4D1 919 159 bracket
1 x N 013 96 49 screw to fix bracket to chassis
2 x N 013 95 32 screws to fix receiver to bracket or to recess behind the instrument cluster


>> Are these common enough bits to find on German ebay, if it was more or less standard fit across the '8 range on the Continent?

I think all A8s supplied to countries in CET time zone (see the map in my first post) had this receiver installed as standard.

P.S. If you want to search German ebay just type "Audi Funkuhrmodul" or "Audi Funkuhr".
You need the version with wire coming out of it which ends with 4 pin electric connector.

Brilliant - thanks for the details :)

I find it a pain adjusting the clock on mine, even more so since it has to be done via the instrument cluster to update the RNS-E over CAN

How successful is the receiver at picking up a signal if the car is garaged? Presume it works OK since I think yours is garaged overnight too?

The radio bit is £59 new from TPS - bracket and screws come to less than a fiver

I have no answer to that question yet -- need to gather statistics. I fit hormann doors to garage these days so car is not garaged ... :)

All I know for sure is that radio control mode stays for 3 days even if there is no single signal received for 3 days (and transmitter broadcasts signal continuously). Then the mast will switch off until signal is caught again. AFAIK when mast is displayed again cluster still remembers the delta between CET and UK time, so clock won't jump 1 hour.

Ask Goran who has German car.

I would think it shouldn't struggle - my little AAA powered alarm clock links to the Rugby clock and manages to get a signal indoors through several layers of insulation even with the antenna long since broken off!

A single skin garage with no insulation shouldn't prove too problematic....

Well looking on ebay I found 1 of these for sale by our forum sponsors (they've had a few left hookers in to break over the years, apparently) so spoke to Dave and ordered it today :)

Will need to order the bracket from TPS as A8parts didn't keep it when they stripped the car

Don't order bracket for now. Try to install with screws in the standard recess behind cluster as OEM place for receiver may be difficult to reach. You will only need two screws from my list to install receiver in the recess behind cluster. Or you can use double sided foam tape with some cable tires to fix it anywhere under dash when knee panel is removed.

Will I need to remove cluster to install in that spot, or should I be able to get to it from underneath?

I have published photograph where I hold receiver in my hand with wire going to cluster from behind. You can get to this position without removing cluster. You can then fix receive anywhere you want behind the knee panel.

Getting to OEM spot to fix receiver with OEM bracket in the center of dash is only possible if you remove cluster, but it is still very difficult to get to to OEM spot because of space shortage.

I never tried to I install in recess behind cluster. I think audi dicided not to do it for a reason, but I have no ideal for what reason.

You can remove knee panel now before you got receiver and study the area.

Hope it helps.

Do you always disconnect battery when doing these little jobs or not worry about it? I don't appear to have the radio code for my rns-e so bit nervous of unplugging!

Will have a look in elsawin for trim removal instructions and see what I can see. Might be just as easy to pull the cluster. It must've been out to do the rns-e wiring so hopefully not too tricky to get out!

Will need to get it coded as don't have vcds

In general I don't worry about battery, but I'm very careful :)

In this particular situation I have removed instrument cluster and disconnected all connections from it without disconnecting battery. I have done this way many times. This time I removed cluster because I also fitted CAN Gateway behind instrument cluster and that project still continues. That project is not related to radio controlled clock. When I connected connectors back in place I don't remember if connector with clock receiver was connected before or after connector that supplies power to the cluster, so I won't bother if I was you.

With cluster out I tried to access the OEM place for clock receiver in the middle of dashboard. In ELSA Audi claims you can get there through cluster opening, but I just don't understand how I can attach bracket with a screw in such tight place. I tried to leave receiver there temporarily without attaching it, but it didn't catch signal after 2 or 3 days and I explained it to myself because I have heated windscreen which blocks all radio waves. I then put receiver into driver's door pocket (it has long wire) and the antenna symbol appeared next morning. I'm still contemplating about best non-OEM place to attach it to in my car.

If you'll decide to pull the cluster just throw towel on steering wheel upper trim / cowl. If you won't do it the cluster will scratch it. It can also scratch the upper area of steering column surround trim, so be careful. When I removed my cluster first time I have wrapped it with Audi's sticky felt tape that partially protects me form that trouble. I still need to be careful. I personally find that removing knee trim is easier.

How it happened that you don't know your RNS-E code? This is weird.

No VAG COM cable? This is even more weird :) I can't do anything electrically without VAG COM. I purchased genuine cable recently, but I can sell you my old one. It works with VAG COM v908, which is more than enough for K-line cars. Because I now fit CAN Gateway and experiment with 'over the CAN' diagnostics I need to have latest VCDS so I've got genuine cable. Or just purchase Chinese cable off ebay. It is a must have if you're serious about car.

Having spent an age up under the dash of the A6 I've got fairly good at getting to fixings you can only feel rather than see! Wonder if taking the RNS-E out would improve access or if it would be too low?

Ref the code, although I know the unit was a factory reconditioned one bought from Audi and I have the handbook, it was only a couple of years after buying the car that I realised the code isn't in the front of the handbook and should be on a separate card, which I don't have :( I'm sure I can get the code via my local dealer, but it's obviously less hassle not to need to.

Don't have VCDS etc due to cost - mine has never thrown a code apart from a faulty ABS sensor and the F125 switch, and I got those read locally for free. I will invest at some point but to change a bit from 0 to 1 I can hopefully get someone to do that for me :) Let me know what you'd want for your old cable ;)

To get to middle if dash from center we need to remove not only RNS-E, but also rns-e frame, wich means HVAC too and central air vent. £20 for cable. But I think on ebay you can get one for even cheaper.

Hi Sergey

If you've got a spare copy of the software on a disc as well then that's the kind of money I can afford to spend +++

Will be in touch - off for a job interview that's not quite an interview this morning.....

Adrian

Yep, I have disk too, although googling for "VAG COM 908" gives result much faster. But get your job first! :) Good luck Adrian.

Well my module arrived courtesy of our sponsors today :)

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1378905389

Foam stuff has fallen to pieces - anything equivalent available does anyone know?

Bracket on order so will have to wait for a while :)

Any foam stuff used for packaging wrapped with Certoplast will be OK.
Remove knee panel and stick it to instruments panel.
Put module into driver's door pocket and wait for signal.

Then you'll decide where to attach it permanently.
You can drive for a couple of weeks without knee panel...

I'll see if I can retrieve any intact from the spare wiring loom I have :)

From http://ec1.images-amazon.com/media/i...L000070757.pdf

"The successful reception of the long wave signal depends on the positioning and location of the clock. Insufficient signal strength or external electrical noises may prevent the unit from receiving a complete signal. The main reasons for poor reception are heavily reinforced concrete and steel structures, and close proximity to electrical units such as TV’s and PC monitors."

I think Audi moved receiver unit from standard recess behind instrument cluster to middle of dashboard for facelift cars because of new colour LCD display that can interfere with long wave reception. Just my guess.

If yes, then perhaps that makes middle of dashboard not a very nice place to fit receiver for cars with RNS-E.

On the other hand most of time car is parked, so LCD screens are off and receiver is always working... Just thinking...

I would have thought that the main reason for not using that space could be shielding so that the signal isn't received.

I've no idea how much metal is around that area, but if the cowling/dash above the instruments more than just plastic with a metal supporting frame it might block the signal.

The issue with TVs and monitors referred to is that associated mainly with the broadband radio emission which emanate from cathode ray tube devices such as old TVs and monitors. This is what enabled the old TV detector vans to check that you were watching TV .. and which channel. LCD/LED screens do not have the same problem but there may be some other elemnt of the system which cause problems. You will get stray electro-magnetic fields though from alternators, transformers, motors etc. Long wave HF (3-30Mhz) transmissions are fairly penetrative (much more so than UHF (1.3Ghz) satnav frequencies) and so require considerable shielding e.g. concrete, steel etc to prevent reception.

Here in the south east we're nearer the transmitter than quite a few parts of continental Europe so think we should be ok. When they designed it hopefully they allowed adequate signal strength to penetrate a typical garage roof - not a lot to it apart from a few tiles and single skin brick :)

Sergey has a bigger issue with his metalised front screen which won't be a problem for many people fitting this

If these things really did exist (that is, with some electronic wizardry inside them, rather than just an empty van used as a scare tactic), then they must have been one of the daftest wastes of money ever.

Pretty much every home in the UK has a TV. The retaler has to inform the licensing people when you buy a new one, and they know everyone who has a licence. So why not just call on every home that doesn't have a licence? :Confused:

Much cheaper and just as effective I would have thought.

Just had a call from TPS - my bracket and screws have landed :) Will go and pick them up later

Did it not work in the little recess that Sergey suggested?

I'd already ordered the bracket before we discussed that option - got the bracket now, which I was expecting to be plastic, but turns out to be metal.

Pics below:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1379325673

Grand total of £3.73 for bracket and screws

It will work in that recess behind the cluster and space permits too. The only problem is why Audi moved it from there to the center of dash.

Because of poor reception? Have no statistics yet to answer that question.

Installing on that bracket in middle of dash can be a bit of nightmare.

By the way, the dashboard plastic 'visor' above the instrument cluster is hollow inside -- perhaps it's possible to fix the receiver there. It will sit above everything, but still too close to cluster. Just an idea.

P.S. I talked to Goran and he has heated windscreen in his new LHD car -- just like me. Receiver is in stock place obviously as he's got car manufactured for German market. I think Goran is happy with reception, but he promised to keep an eye on antenna symbol and to update us.

What's the difference between these 2 units? There are a few without the 'A' suffix on ebay.de, but not with the 'A' suffix

Possibly a change in the cluster design? Will have a look at the non-A versions and see if I can see a physical difference.

Have you tried A8parts as that's where mine came from and they may have others from left hookers they've broken?

Yes, I tried A8 Parts but yours was the last one

I got mine off eBay from Germany, arrived earlier this week. €40 including P&P.
Same as Adrian's (an A version) with a slightly later manufacturing date of 35/00.
Won't be fitting it for a while, but will probably take the instruments out to do it and decide on location at the time.

I can't see any physical difference in the module or connector, so it's probably just a revised part number, a bit like the TV module boxes where anything will pretty much work.

Some appear to have chopped the connectors off, which is genius.....