A8 Dead :(
 

It just won't start, I drove it on a 100 mile journey yesterday. Parked her up at 10PM and tried to start her two hours ago and nothing. Had the AA man out, he spent nearly an hour trying to get it started, checking the battery which is fine, fuses etc.. but he couldn't find what the problem was. He wrote on the job sheet 'suspect loss of starter feed'. He said it wasn't the fuel pump. Any ideas anyone?

Does the A8 have 'power amplifiers' which feed the coil packs?

Not sure, I rekon Ian or someone else will though. If I cant get it sorted I will have to get it flatbedded to AVP.

I lose track of all your hardware Singh, but assuming this is the older prefacelift one you're talking about then its probably about time the copper cable feeding the started corroded away completely, most of them do.

The power cable from the battery runs all the way down the drivers side, then roughly under the drivers pedals it disappears into the chassis itself and re-appears at the end of the drivers side chassis leg, where it connects to a small distribution block on the underside. This block connects the alternator and starter. They corrode badly, and you'll find it under there with loads of green powder, which is normal, but not good.

Simply repair this connection and all will probably be well.

Note though, this is a live, unfused connection direct to the battery, so please disconnect the battery first +++

Pre-face, yes it does, however I read the symptoms as not actually turning over at all, ie dead, but I assume ignition, cluster etc all works fine otherwise, almost like you're trying to start it in Drive?

If the ignitions amps fail, you usually lose a bank or two, but it'll run.

In fact, there are two amps, and the cylinders are spread in an alternate firing order over them, so even if you remove one amp completely it will run on 4 cylinders. just. :D

There, you were right - Ian has all the answers +++

Have you run Vagcom up?

Thanks Ian, yeah it is the 96 4.2 qs in my sig pic, so where should I start looking? under the carpet on the footwells? Havent got a clue where the drivers side chasis leg is?

Clive - I offered someone on eBay £200 for a VAG COM, just waiting for them to get back to me. My eBay cable doesn't work anymore so thought I would go for the full Ross Tech version.

Edit: Just want to add, this is the first thing that has ever gone wrong with the car in the 11 years we have owned it!

[quote=Singh;5546]
Clive - I offered someone on eBay £200 for a VAG COM, just waiting for them to get back to me. My eBay cable doesn't work anymore so thought I would go for the full Ross Tech version.
quote]

£200 :eek3: ?

They're only £250 brand new, and thats the posh Can version that you dont need for the D2's...

You should be paying sub £100 for a genuine one you need second hand.... +++

In fact, I think we'll have one spare very shortly....

Oooo, I'm interested to!!! ( see my post in teh VAG com Section ).

If Singh gets his Can I be up for first refusal on it if it comes up?

Oh really? What a plonker I am, it was £350 buy it now. Yeah I'll take the old one of your hands +++

Oh ffs, now the sames just happened to the S8, f'in thing won't start!

Oh merde!
 

Not just amazing, but a real stroke of bad luck :mad:

Hope you soon get sorted, Amar

I cant even be bothered with them anymore, I'm lucky enough to have two D2s on the drive, both of them won't start!! :(

I just remembered though I got this warranty with the AA on callout, if they can't fix the S8, they will put £500 towards the repair!! I rekon its the fuel pump so looks like the warranty will pay for itself! Thats cheered me up :D Still ain't got a clue what the feck is up with the A8 though.

I'm sure we can help you, as its rarely anything major, but how about some more details??

1) Does it have power - Does the ignition actually come on, with the cluster etc

2) When you turn the ignition on, do you hear the pump pressurise in the boot?

3) Does the starter motor crank over or not?

4) If so, Does it turn over at the normal speed?

5) Is there any sign of firing, or is it dead?

6) Are both cars seriously showing *exactly* the same symptoms?

Give us some more info and I'm sure it can be fixed easily - Ben will no doubt get it going, but it'll be a costly tow over to him in the first place..

Hi Ian - I have spoke to the AA about getting the A8 sent over to Ben and they are okay to do that FOC on a flatbed, so they should do the same with the S :)

Both cars aren't showing the same symptoms, I just meant they both won't start. The S8 is nearly starting it goes chug chug, its as if there is not enough fuel getting to the engine? The revs go to about 2-300 and then I stoped trying to start it because I didn't want to damage it. The starter motor is deffently cranking, it just won't fire up. I can't check the pump pressuire in the boot now as I am at work. The AA are due in about an hour or so I am going to rush home then. Hope I get it sorted soon, I need an '8 for a long drive tomorrow, 335s seats give me a backache on long journeys! :(
I do have a feeling its a fuel pump though, I spoke to the AA repair cover warranty team thingi I have and they said they will get it repaired at Audi upto £500 with a £25 excess and the fuel pump is covered, which is good I guess..

Edit: Ignition, lights, music etc are all working.

Have you filed them at the same petrol station recently cause I'm thinking dirty fuel?

Agreed, sounds like fuel pump on the S8, but £500 wont cover it, they aint cheap, you're looking nearer £700 *if* they still have them .... :-(

What about some more details on the A8, that sounds like a cheaper fix right now.. ?

They were filled up at diffrent petrol stations, the A8 has a virtually full tank and the S8 has a quarter of premuim fuel in it. Filled on diffrent days at diffrent stations, they have also been driven a fair amount on that fuel so don't think its that.

The A8 not starting isn't what I would describe fuel related, its as if trying to start the car with no battery!
S8 tries and fails to startup. It sounds hopefull but never actully makes it to idle.

I'm sure I can knock them down? I also know they are happy to use A8 Parts stuff as long as it is the exact same part number which should bring the bill down considerably, do you know off the top of your head if you have a pump? If not Audi then Ben at AVP will get my business, its just that Audi are closer..

Ian, I took of the driver side wheel, and wheel arch liners off the A8 yesterday but couldn't see the wire or any green dust :Confused:

Just spoke to Ben at AVP, was going to have both D2s 'shipped over' but hes away for a week :(

He told me to try this on the A8 which sounds intresting. On the left passenger footwell there is a block of wood that is screwed in, unscrew it and there is a black relay at the top left, which is ignition related. Its numbered 201 IIRC. Swap this with the one from the horn (same relay) and see if it starts. Ben really knows his stuff, I am properly properly impressed. +++

Your not going to believe this, I just tried starting the A8 ad the S8 again and they both sprang to life first time, how spooky..
Will get Ben at AVP to give them the once over anyhow..

That's really weird - must be intermittent faults there somewhere, which need checking out - please keep us posted...

Went to grab a Pizza for lunch and...





Rescued by a renault, oh the shame...


http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1246643519

Getting fed up now, had a new windscreen coming for it at 3. Called the AA at 2 they didn't get to me untill 5:30.. The windscreen guy was good enough to come and meet me at the pizza place though. Anyone know which relay is for the ignition? Ben said its the same as the one for the horn. I found the horn one? 204, cannot find the ignition one.

Sentimental value is getting in the way of this A8, we have had it eleven years and don't want to let go of it. Otherwise would have chopped it in for something a little newer.

Bens away for a week now, so will have to get it to him next week, shame though. I actully prefer driving the A8 to the S8. Much nicer power delivery, S8 snaps your neck off if you press the accelorator a little to hard, the only way to stop this is driving it constantly in tip mode! A8 is perfect, really relaxing to drive and I don't boot it around town and 30 zones anyway.

Thanks

I have the upmost respect for Ben, but in his weeks absence I'm not familar with the ignition relay he is wanting you to investigate.

If you want to answer my previous direct questions as to *exactly* what the symptoms are we'll try and help (its a public forum for just this sort of thing afterall) but reading through the thread, you've 2 cars, both randomly flakey and there are no real details for anyone to chip in ideas - Its probably why you're not getting a great deal of constructive help on this one yet.... +++

There are a million reasons why a car wont start, but its not really difficult to narrow down with some basic info.... +++

1) Yes, it has power. The lights instrument cluster and everything work. I even spent the three hours waiting for the AA listening to my I Pod through the stereo.

2) No, only noise I can hear is coming from the relay box, a clicking. This could just be because I have taken the wooden cover/ carpet off it though!

3) No :(

4) ---

5) No sign of firing, its exactly like trying to start a car in 'D' or with a disconnected battery.

6) I'm pretty sure the S8 is a fuel pump, got a warranty on it so not to worried about it.

Thanks for helping Ian, hope this makes it a little clearer for you +++

P.S Ben said that sometimes water can get into where the relay box usually is on these models, sure enough when I took the carpets out. It was drenched around that area!

That sounds to me as if the main power feed has coroded and no power is being supplied to the starter motor. The junction where the power supply jumps from the battery cable to the starter motor is where you can see the brown cable in this picture...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n2DSCF1509.jpg

Here is the schematic for it.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1246710869

If the cable ends have coroded then there will be no power to the starter motor.

Cheers for that Mike, could you let me know if this is the drivers side or passengers side?

I concur with Mike, main power feed corroded....

Its on the drivers side.

The cable, being a live earth, is encased in a plastic block. It may be easy to overlook, but keep looking and you'll find it. Theres only one bloody thick power lead under the front end of the chassis i promise you +++

Thanks Ian/Mike. Will have a look next week or send to Ben if I can't be bothered +++

Got my new proper VAG COM through today, so scanned the A8. Which still isn't starting. These were the results.

5 Faults Found:
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: No Activity
P0134 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16538 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1: No Activity
P0154 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16500 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62): Implausible Signal
P0116 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

The immobiliser one I found interesting but when I scanned the immobiliser it showed no faults. If it were the immobiliser it would be the part in the car as I have tried three different keys and they are not the problem. Ben's coming over on Wed though to take a look, he reckons its not the immobiliser as if it were it would start and then turn off. This sounds right to me from previous grief with an immobiliser problem before in an A6.
Anyone got any speculation? Will keep you all updated :)

Did Singh buy yours Ian or is it up for grabs?

Nah, I couldn't wait any longer so paid the full wack. I think its still up for grabs mate +++

Ace!,


Ian, is teh spare one up for sale then? PM me what you want for it.

Cheers

Well, the A8 is in Bens capable hands now. He came down and had a look and reckons its the alternator and later I got the car over to his premises. He is soo soo much better then Audi in terms of knowledge. Infact I was so impressed that I gave him the job of a full service/cambelt/waterpump/alternator & brakes change and a full check over the whole car so anything else thats deemed neccessary as well, a job that had originally been booked with Audi. Should drive a million dollars when I get her back +++

Hi there chap!

Alternator appears to be OK, now got it up in the air and can test it fully.

As suggested by many, the main feed connection is badly corroded but there's power there. It is not getting it's solenoid feed is all. Found 2 corroded wires in relay box in passenger footwell - now repaired. Going to get main feed cleaned up now but looks as though ignition switch not operating correctly, looks burned out! Will call you with update later on. Had it running off the key so we're nearly there mate!

The start inhibitor relay is the one I suggested before I went away for you to check but my description of it's location was incorrect due to it's age. This relay is part of a duel one that also operates the reverse lights(!) on your car - it's working fine! Looks like water ingress caused the high resistance issues on the wiring in the same place though. I shall make sure there'ds no leaks before it's returned to you.

p.s, nice car and a credit to you!!!!

Hi Ben, thanks for the update. Glad we left it at the right place, not sure how you made it over here in an hour! We were using the Porsche's sat nav and following in the A8 it took us over an hour and a half!
I think the fact its looking nice is down to its low mileage, but in the 11 years we have had it, It has never had a cambelt change so its probably hanging on by threads right now! Oh and I must warn you CD1 is all Michael Jackson :D

BTW: If the front end of the car looks like its been put together by an 18 year old business studies student with no car mechanical skills at all, it has...

[quote=Singh;6012]Hi Ben, thanks for the update. Glad we left it at the right place, not sure how you made it over here in an hour! We were using the Porsche's sat nav and following in the A8 it took us over an hour and a half!
QUOTE]

Ha! You need an old 90 20v quattro and plenty of V-Power!! The Porka'll attract too much attention - no one notices a 17year old black "old man's car"!!!

There is an 80 on the fleet if that counts? It just wasn't at home when you came around! Ready for the S8 tomorrow then? Want a full checkover and the output flange seal thingi majigi. :(