D2 S8 Power Steering Fluid
 

Just sprung a leak.

Need to order some urgently for tomorrow so that I can top up to get the car to the garage.

Amazon Prime is my quickest option, but I've only got about 30 mins to order for delivery tomorrow!


Is this the right stuff?:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wynn-189869-...dp/B006HFM5GO/
(Wynn Oil 189869 1L Central Hydraulic Fluid 11S)

Or is there a better alternative (on Amazon)?







Edit: Took a chance and ordered it before the time ran out for next day delivery.

Did I order the right stuff? :Confused:

I know it's not OEM but I'll get it flushed out once the leak has been repaired. It just needs to be the correct type of fluid; something good enough to get me to the garage.




PS - Does burning power steering fluid smell like burning plastic?

Thats the right stuff :) No need to flush it IMO - CHF11S is the same spec as the Audi G 002 000.

Most motor factors carry it these days, since most (all?) german cars use it.

Great, that's a relief!

Thanks +++

Even red ATF is a good enough short term solution in an emergency. I would have no hesitation using it if I was stranded and couldn't get the green stuff, but that would definitely require flushing afterwards since it will eventually eat the seals. We're talking many months or even years though, not hours :)

Just don't ever confuse CHF with Citroen LHM! Same colour, but LHM will eat through concrete :eek:

Funny you should say that. I was thinking how similar it looked to LHM and was wondering if there were any other similarities .... I guess not. After years of BX and XM ownership, LHM is one green fluid that I'm very familiar with! Even had the misfortune to taste it once! :eek3:


Do you happen to know what CHF11S smells like when it's burning? Does it smell like burning plastic by any chance?

Reason I ask is, in the lead up to this loss of fluid, very occasionally there was a smell of burning plastic, and even little puffs of smoke, coming from the engine bay, seemingly from something burning on the exhaust manifold. It was difficult to see what it was and, at the time, there seemed to be no loss of any fluids. I'm suspecting/hoping that it turns out to be the same leak, hopefully one that is simple and cheap to fix.

I'm not sure what it smells like when burning tbh. Can't say I've ever encountered that.

Entirely feasible it could drip on to the downpipes though, since the p/s lines run over both of them. I might scoot out to the workshop and try it - I'm curious now :D

Yes, it does smell a bit like burning plastic when 'vigorously heated'. It doesn't want to catch fire though - it boils and evaporates before it'll ignite. It seems almost flame-retardant.

Don't try this at home :ROFL:


"I'm just going to the workshop for a bit"
"Ok honey what are you doing tonight?"
"Setting fire to power steering fluid to see what it smells like"
"Of course you are."

lol :rofl:

Let me correct that....

:ROFL: :ROFL:

Good to know Mikki. Thanks for that! +++


My Amazon order of 11S fluid arrived too late to take it to the garage today (typical ... they normally deliver early, but not today!). I'm taking it to the garage tomorrow instead to investigate where it's leaking.

I've topped it back up though (took about 1 Litre) and everything seems ok, despite the pump protesting loudly in the mile or so I had to drive to get home yesterday. I was worried that may have damaged the pump, but it seems to be working normally. No obvious signs of leakage either, so it must be a relatively slow or intermittent leak.

The pump will howl with any air in it's supply. The return from the rack is very turbulent and will aerate the contents of the reservoir if the fluid is too low - look in it with the engine running and it looks like it's boiling. I've seen several cars which are very sensitive to the fluid level so I wouldn't worry about the noise.

If its a slow leak then it probably only just hit the threshold where the fluid gets aerated. Hopefully the garage can find the leak, and extra hopefully it's not the main pressure hose because that is stupidly expensive!

Just an update on this ....

Finally got the parts and got this fixed today (or rather my mechanic did).

Turned out it was the hoses, three of them altogether. The hoses pass through the n/s wheel arch, where they're exposed to every bit of road salt and crap that gets thrown at them (you can see them, just behind the shock absorber). 2 of the hoses were badly corroded. One of them was so bad it fell apart while removing it. The third hose (a low pressure return hose I think) was in better shape but, being the cheaper of the 3 hoses we decided it best to change it at the same time. Parts alone for the 3 hoses was an eye-watering £700 (approx) :eek2:

And just to add to the financial blow, turns out the subframe has got a rust hole in it too, right below where the PS pipes were leaking. I suspect the PS fluid has been dripping on it for some time and caused it to corrode.

And get this, a brand new front subframe is £1500 :eek:

Mm I found the prices eye watering too! I cut the ends off the original hoses and swaged new hose on to them instead.

I just reconditioned my subframe. Some muppet had cut a couple of holes in it for who knows what reason. Sand blasted it, welded up the holes and re-painted. Be aware subframes can't be welded according to the MoT, which frankly is ridiculous. If you can weld bodywork which is much thinner, what possible drawback can there be to welding up a 2.5mm thick subframe? The lesson I learn from that is make the repair invisible, but sadly most garages won't consider repairing them. I guess you might find a good used one from our sponsors?

Its a hell of a job swapping a subframe over. Possible with a lift, an engine support beam, and a transmission jack. You need the subframe alignment pins to get it back in the right place too, otherwise the wheel alignment will be all over the place afterwards. I made a couple when I put mine back together so PM me if you'd like to borrow them +++

http://www.corradov8.com/pics/s8/subframepins.jpg

http://www.corradov8.com/pics/s8/subframepins2.jpg

http://www.corradov8.com/pics/s8/subframepins5.jpg

I feel your pain, I had a rust-holed subframe too on my S8 when I bought it, had to be replaced. If you buy all your parts from the same dealer press them nicely for a discount. I did and they gave 10% off.
Lesson learned, I am not a good pre-inspector, I completely missed that and the leaking self-leveling shocks.
And the non-standard poor quality front springs.

Thanks for the info guys! :)


Excellent photos and info there MikkiJayne!! I'll pass that info on to my mechanic and make sure he's equipped to do the job! If he hasn't got the correct alignment pins please let me pay to hire yours; if they'll help make the job go smoothly, they'll be worth their weight in gold.


As for the replacement subframe, I figured it might be worth looking for a used one in good condition. I contacted the forum sponsors and they had a suitable used one in stock (which they assure me is in good condition) .... ordered and on its way for £70! .... a damn sight cheaper than the £1500 for a new one!!

My plan is to get the used one cleaned up and repainted, perhaps even galvanised. It should be possible to get it like new, or maybe even better than new, for a lot less than the price of a new one.

The subframes were originally zinc plated before they were painted, but like nuts and bolts and everything else, it doesn't last forever. The drawback with galvanising is that you'll have to remove the mounting bushes which is difficult and expensive - eight halves at £30 each! Powder coating would be the same, but tbh I don't rate powder coating for anything with sharp edges - it fails at the edges and then rusts worse than when it's painted because the powder coat flakes off in a big sheet.

IMO, the best thing to do is blast off the rust (or blast the whole thing with the bushes very well masked up) and then paint it with something like POR-15 or Rustoleum. Both products are designed to kill any remaining rust and are designed for things like undercarriage. I used some Ronseal 'No Rust' semi-gloss exterior metal paint which does the same, then sprayed a few coats of satin black over the top for a factory-ish finish :)

That's a result +++

I had exactly the same - mine failed its MOT recently because of this, and I thought I was looking at a big bill, but the forum sponsors came to the rescue, also for c£70. I also had mine cleaned up and rustproofed before fitting, so that should stop the problem recurring +++

Thanks. I think that's what I'll do! :)

Just discovered mine has dumped a lot of it's PAS fluid today, pump was howling and it took at least a litre of fluid. Mechanic unable to look at it until next week..getting a bit nervous as that's me down to only one car now as the Fiat is having electrical gremlins investigated. Fingers crossed nothing goes wrong with the RS6 now :(

It might just be a slow-ish leak Brian, despite how much fluid it took to top up. There's no real indication of fluid loss until the pump starts complaining, by which time the system is almost empty. The header tank level is misleading too I found. It can look like it has plenty of fluid but if you keep pouring it in (beyond max), while the engine is running, the level drops and it continues to take more, presumably due to the displacement of air in the system. I kept topping mine up for a while until the garage could fit me in. I found it was maybe losing about 100ml per day.

I hope you manage to get it sorted soon without too much expense!

[quote=MikkiJayne;111348]Mm I found the prices eye watering too! I cut the ends off the original hoses and swaged new hose on to them instead.

I just reconditioned my subframe. Some muppet had cut a couple of holes in it for who knows what reason. Sand blasted it, welded up the holes and re-painted. Be aware subframes can't be welded according to the MoT, which frankly is ridiculous. If you can weld bodywork which is much thinner, what possible drawback can there be to welding up a 2.5mm thick subframe? The lesson I learn from that is make the repair invisible, but sadly most garages won't consider repairing them.[quote]

I'll repair them and make it invisible with full pen single sided welding, painted with marine grade red oxide primer ready for a top coat of your choice +++

I think the reasoning behind the whole repair issue is no call for coded welders in the motor repair industry. Structural welds should not be done by a self taught welder on a mig machine bought for Christmas as it'll be like aero chocolate or lack penetration. Car bodies are so thin you don't need a good technique as you get full penetration without trying, not so easy when you get to thicker steels that require full pen with 0 inclusion on a full x-ray, there are welders and welders. I don't even trust the garage to do my brakes let alone welding structural joints.

Mine went to the point the fluid was coming out as quick as I could pour it in, so should be ok with a top up to get you where you need to be for the hose change.

Ah well, seems it is the expensive hose that's leaking..£260 + vat from TPS, however the mechanic has managed to source a cheaper one elsewhere..downside is it won't arrive till next Thursday..just off down to his place with a sleeping bag till then+++

Sounds like yours is probably leaking from the same hose mine was Brian.

I think there are 3 PS hoses in that area altogether; might be worth replacing the other two at the same time. Mine were all a bit iffy on closer inspection. I think it cost me something like £700 for all three from TPS (OEM), but maybe your mechanic can source the other two hoses cheaper elsewhere too.

I think the fluid will leak through the sleeping bag eventually Brian :p :D

Alas... the mechanic had ordered D3 hoses, however he did get them from a reputable supplier..our very own Forum Sponsor..but speaking to them it seems decent D2 hoses are like rocking horse **** and I believe there is at least 1 member in the queue before me. Looks like a wallet hurting TPS order is the only option unless anyone knows of any other suppliers?

+++

That's not good mate.
When I was toying with how I was going to fix mine on the cheap I was going to speak to my hydraulic man about it as he makes hoses and everything hydraulic. But before then it was rescued by Mike as he had some knocking about. But while talking to MJ she mentioned that when cutting a hose in half there is some sort of weird restrictor in side the delivery side pipe. I think she did doc it on here but I'm too lazy to go look see. So not just as easy as getting a pipe the same size and having new end swaged on.
It might still be worth asking the hydraulic guy as he's the mutts nuts and I'm 100% sure he'd know a way to replicate the pipe.
I'll PM you his details if you want to give him a call.

I wonder if it would be possible/cheaper to have some hoses custom made, from somewhere like this maybe?: https://www.tridenthydraulics.co.uk/...ing-hoses.html

Or you could have a go at making your own if you're feeling ambitious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGJ5zC7lhz8



EDIT: Dezzy beat me to it.

Thanks guys I did look at that site earlier Mark..suspect that getting a one off made would probably be just as expensive if not more. Also thanks the PM Dezzy will have a look at that too, but I think TPS is going to be easiest :D

Dezzy is right - I tried making up a plain hydraulic hose (£60) but it didn't work well - the pump howled constantly as it had no back-pressure and the steering was too light. The factory hose has a special nozzle in the pump union and a nylon liner in the first half of the hose which Mike and I think is some sort of constant pressure / variable flow solution.

There are only two options at the moment:

1, stump up £750 for new factory hoses, for as long as we can get them.

2, find a good used hose set, de-rust it, and re-paint / cover in shrink sleeve which is what I did. Good used ones are getting extremely rare now though.

When Audi run out of new hoses we'll have to come up with a new solution, but I have other things to get on with until then...

Thanks for that response MJ, at least that's confirmed what I suspected, TPS wallet empty here I come+++

However I suspect these hoses on mine are the original ones so replacing them with genuine Audi should see another 15 years I guess, so probably see me out:ROFL:

mmmm .... time to order a set then? Better investment that Bitcoin eh?:ROFL:

Would anything else have similar hoses like the A6?
At the end of the day it's not alien technology, someone has made these hoses for about 40 quid so it must be achievable again. I'm sure MJ will find a way forward.
The subframe however, when they become unavailable new and there are no rot free ones left out there, that will be terminal. I don't fancy trying to make one of those from scratch. Offer to repair still stands, don't scrap the holey ones

Could a company like Pirtek not make them up to match what youve got?
http://www.pirtek.co.uk/

.

Interestingly I just spoke to the mechanic and he is going to speak to Pirtek when he returns from his annual ski trip week after next+++

Surely, Dezzy, anything more complicated than a 1930s Ford tractor would look like "Alien Technology" to someone in the west country??:p

If my local cretins are anything to go by, not even close :rolleyes: They refuse to re-use hose fittings, pointing to an ordinance from head office which states the exact opposite. Instead of crimping a new hose to the special banjo fitting, they insisted on cutting the original barbs off and silver-soldering a new hose tail on, to which they then crimped a new hose. That lost all the clever nozzle stuff and made the pump howl.

There are a few challenges to replicate the factory hoses and its going to take some R&D and possibly a couple of attempts.

1, removing the crimp from the original banjo fitting without damaging the fitting - its a big crimp on a small fitting. Possible to do, but one slip with the grinder...
2, sizing and fitting a reducer bush at the original distance inside the hose as the original to support the nylon liner - this is a steel bush pushed about 18" down the inside of the hose, then crimped externally to hold it in place. No such crimp exists in Pirtek's catalog so it'd need some research to find / make a replacement
3, doing the same about 3-4' down the hose to replicate the support for the nylon liner where the bolted union used to be. The bolted union supports the other end of the nylon liner, and then its plain 10mm hose after that to the rack.

Its a non-trivial task to replicate the factory hose performance, but not impossible. It just needs sufficient motivation, like the factory having none left. Unfortunately there's nothing else in the Audi range which is a direct fit (A4 and A6 are too short) and the D3 hoses don't quite fit although might be a good starting point. I know a few other hydraulic hose specialists in my local area (including HEL who make stainless braided hoses and fittings) so there are more options to explore still.

Hoses on back order from Germany, estimated delivery 2 weeks, the simplest of the three, the mainly rubber one is obsolete so need to get that made up, probably from Pirtek..really missing the old girl:-(

Ooh that's not a good sign. Still, that's the return so simple enough to replicate if you can persuade Pirtek to swage new hose on to the original fittings. The fitting at the front end of that one where it meets the cooler is a restrictor so important they keep it.

Got the S8 back today, over a month since I last drove the old girl..and I have missed her. My RS6 is a great car to drive and is stunningly fast, but it lacks the feeling of class and sophistication and all round “coolness” that the S8 has, will go for a drive tomorrow +++

ETA needs a good clean now too:o