Clunking in/out of 1st after Mackies Flush
 

My work brought me to Glasgow and I thought I'd make use of the time to visit Mackie Transmission and get the transmission flushed and the gearbox software updated.

I got a call to say the car was ready. They said they couldn't do the software update because my gearbox had the latest software. I got a cab over there and drove away a happy guy. Even from startup, everything seemed that little bit smoother and pulling away felt great. I happily drove back to my hotel... until I had to stop for the first time after the car had warmed up.

When the car shifted into first while slowing down, there was a clunk from the transmission. Pulling away from a standstill and, when shifting from 1st to 2nd, the car hesitated quite violently before shifting to 2nd and then behaving normally.

I tried calling Mackie but they had closed for the day. I emailed John but got an out-of-office.

I've decided to drive there first thing tomorrow morning and hope, pray and plead that it's something they can fix easily. I'm due in Sheffield tomorrow afternoon and, truth be told, I'm freaking out.

I hope it will be the gearbox relearning its control points but they should be able to confirm with you in the morning, what they charge you out of interest?

My goodness, I hope so Del. I've had a run of bad luck with the car recently and I'm thinking about throwing in the towel and going back to my 21 year old Volvo.

They charged me £436 for the service including the fluid and disposal of the old stuff. That was cheaper than I was quoted (£541) because a software update wasn't needed.

When I took the car in, they told me the software update can sometimes take a while because it has to be downloaded. The suspicious side of me is now wondering whether they skipped it to save some time because they said they were a little short-staffed that day.

If they put the wrong fluid in with the wrong software, it can have interesting results

You're right. I always thought the software upgrade was required to use the Lifeguard 8 fluid. There's nothing in the service history of the car to suggest the upgrade has been done before, so I wonder whether the software was needed but not done. If it can't be done, I wonder whether it's better to use the Lifeguard 6 fluid?

I don't know, my head is racing right now.

I can't offer any way of explanation, but hopefully I can offer some reassurance in that my car was done by them, but they did update the firmware as well and it's been fine in the time I've had it, they are highly rated as an outfit.

Hopefully it's just a settings issue and you get it sorted tomorrow morning

Just had mine serviced at Chester Transmissions and I asked about the LG8 fluid. They said not to bother and if it was working OK before (which it was) then leave it as is. They put the LG6 fluid back in and I have had no issues and it was about £250 or so.

I raised my concerns about auto transmissions being very susceptible to failure after an oil change and the guy said that changing oil would not cause issues that weren't underlying before or waiting to happen anyway.

Sorry to hear of your woes and hopefully whatever it is sorts itself out or Mackie's can fix it. Would be interested to hear what they say it is as sometimes my car does that 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st gear hesitation/snatch thing (mainly on downhill downshifts). But it always has done since I had it at 15k miles. I thought it was a "feature" !! :ROFL::rolleyes:

Thanks Lee, appreciate the good wishes from everyone on here.

I took the car back to them first thing this morning. They took it for a test drive and I rode shotgun. When the transmission was cold, it was perfect. Quiet and fluid with every gear change quick and smooth.

As soon as it warmed up, the clunking came back between 1 & 2. The transmission actually feels like it wants to burst up through the floor of the car. Worryingly, it also started clunking (albeit less violently) between 5 & 6.

The tech suspects either a solenoid, valve or the mechatronics. Whatever it is, it's going to need parts that can take between 3 and 10 days to arrive from ZF. During the test drive, he also told me that the transmission was very low on fluid when they received it - around 4 litres short! I have to say that I do wish they'd told me that while they still had the car. I know they probably didn't want to worry me but that kind of information would have warned me to be cautious with it. I asked for a ballpark figure for the repair and he guessed around £1200.

Rather than risk more damage to it, I thought it best to leave it with them, which left me a with a problem considering I was 400 miles from home. They were nice enough to offer me a lift to the airport, where I rented a car so I could get back home, stopping off at Sheffield for work along the way.

I left them my warranty details in the blind hope that the crappy warranty I got with the car is worth slightly more than the paper on which it's written.

As word broke at work about the car, I'm now facing cries of 'time to sell it'. Part of me agrees but on the other hand, it seems criminal to sell a car having spent as much as I have getting it to behave. Either way, I can't remember ever being this stressed about a car.

At some point, I'll have to catch a flight up to Glasgow and then drive the car home. I just hope they get it back before I go on holiday in August.

Im sure Mackies will put it right. They are expensive cars when something goes wrong but even large unexpected bills like this are only a fraction of the yearly depreciation when they were new.
It might be worth contacting the Trader you purchased the car from to push the warranty claim.
Typically 3rd party warranty firms will just give the runaround to the likes of Mackies or Yourself. They might be more co-operative with the Trader that purchased the warranty as they will be selling them policies on a regular basis.

That doesn't sound right. I doubt it would even drive with less than half fluid level.

That's probably me mis-quoting the tech... I wasn't exactly in a good frame of mind at the time - I was more concerned about finding a way back to London. He also spoke very softly, which wasn't exactly compatible with the non-resonated Milltek exhaust fitted to my car!

Sorry to hear about your problems especially as many of us up here rate Mackies. But if you need any help (accommodation/transport from airport to Mackies etc) if or when you come back for your car then do shout. Be glad to help +++

The D2 5HP24A transmission is pretty famous for a fluid change being a "kill or cure" but it's rather surprising to see a D3 in a similar state.

That said it sounds like it wasn't exactly perfect to start with so this has highlighted a problem that was there waiting to catch you out sooner (probably) or later.

Sounds like someone else has had a go at changing the fluid in the past and not put enough back in maybe? Maybe that's what causing the changing issues. Unless it has a leak I can't see how it can be low on fluid otherwise. Very odd but I hope it doesn't cause too much pain, mentally or financially, but on the plus side when Mackies have finished with it, it will be like new and would be a shame to sell.

Thanks everyone. David, that's a really kind offer and I really appreciate it.

Mackie called me today and I'm afraid the news wasn't good. They told me it was one of two potential problems, and they didn't have enough data to decide between the two. The first is the gearbox controller at a cost of £4500. The second is a new gearbox at the cost of £9500.

I was speechless when they called, moreso because I was barrelling down the M1 in my hired Citroen at the time. I told them I'd call back tomorrow after I'd had some time to process the news. I asked if anything can be done to make the car driveable and they said they'd have a look but they doubt it.

Reading between the lines, I think that roughly means that they can't see anything mechanically wrong, but it won't stop doing it, so it must be software related.

The last two times the car went into a garage, it was noted that there was some kind of fluid leak under the car but it was difficult to say where it was coming from. Audi didn't find anything when they serviced it, so I told them about the previous reports and asked them to check thoroughly for leaks. They again told me there was nothing. I'm guessing the fluid that had leaked had become difficult to see and it was probably too low to leak any more. It must have been transmission fluid.

Tomorrow, I'll suggest it may be worth trying a switch back to LG6 oil. Considering the problem only happens when the gearbox is cold, my last hope of repair is that the software is mismatched with the oil.

If that doesn't work, it kills me even to type this, but I'm going to have to let her go. I love the car dearly, but we're in my fourth month of ownership. It's been at Audi for one of those months and I've spent Just shy of £5000 on it and it still wants more. Wow, this is the first car I've purchased in 16 years... It's a pretty convincing argument for taking the bike.

I apologise for the tone of this message. I'm feeling a little sorry for myself at the moment.

Don't apologise for the tone. Think we can all feel your pain. Is there a (cheaper) way you could have a known to be working 'box dropped in there for much less than the prices quoted? I'd like to think there would be, given the sums in question....

All the best.

Thanks John,

Used parts are another option but the labour is still going to be astronomical. I just checked on Auto Trader and there are a few nice S8s for sale at the moment, although none have quite the spec of mine (although one comes close). My point of looking was actually to see if there was a cheap enough car I could use for parts!

I don't know how often these gearboxes come up for sale on their own. I thought there were a few different versions of it, so finding the right one would be a difficult task.

If you could get it to Chester Transmissions (or even give them a call) they quoted me 1900 for a recon gearbox that would be as good as new but I guess fitting would be a few hundred, but that's still less than half of the cost Mackies have quoted you. They had dozens of RS6 gearboxes in there in bits too. Worth a try. If you can limp it down from Glasgee to Chester it may be worthwhile. Just thinking out loud really as I can feel your pain....

You might consider a 2nd hand Autobox, eBay.de have one for just over €2k.
See Image below for details.

Tony I'm sorry to hear the troubles you are having, I know how much you wanted to find the right car :(

Don't know where he's coming with his numbers from, but ETKA says you can have a complete box with Mechatronic unit for 5000 before any discount.

There has also been a few broken in the UK so there is always options.

Really sorry to hear this bud. Hope you somehow sort it out.

Again, thanks guys for all your support. It really does mean a lot.

The only gearbox I found online with the same PIR code as mine is this one for £3079.

It's from a car that's done enough mileage (86k) for it to need a service too. Also, the seller's feedback has a few people complaining about late deliveries and non-working parts, so I'm not sure they're tested before they're sold. I also think it's horribly expensive for a used part, considering the tiny target audience.

Other than having (yet another) four-figure bill, my worry is that as soon as it gets fixed, something else is going to go. Mackie told me the reason it's so expensive to replace is because the whole front end of the car has to come out, engine included, to fit a new gearbox. If that's the case, I may as well get a new power steering pump & aux belt fitted at the same time. I'm still not happy with my steering and the lack of feedback through the wheel makes me think it's on it's way out.

Where does it end? (other than a trip to webuyanycar.com)

In another post I spoke of a problem I recently had with a 7 Spd s-tronic DSG gearbox on an A6. Audi wanted £10.5k for a new one but I managed to get it rebuilt and fully reconditioned (new clutches etc.) for £2.5k. I had it done here: http://www.bristolgearboxcentre.com/

Might be worth a phone call... They have boxes on the shelf ready to fit (sameday). But if you are not in a hurry, they will rebuild yours and keep your casing. They specialise in VAG auto boxes. In fact I think they only do VAG

Wow, I certainly didn't expect to be reading those kind of figures in relation to this problem, but I echo what other people are saying, have a look at the second hand/broken car market. There is bound to be a cheaper option then the prices they have quoted.

That said, I understand the fear of a never ending bill - sometimes it is right to let a car go instead of having all the horrific outlay. That is a decision only you can make, but in any case I hope you feel whatever decision you make isn't tinged with regret.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-S8-D3...gAAOSwNSxVFzME

£699 - but not sure if its compatible with yours?

Thats a great deal and from the forum sponsor too, so you know there will be no messing around

Sorry to hear of this also :(

When my D2 gearbox packed up a few years ago I ended up plumping for a new Gearbox through TPS and managed to get mine for £2600 as a new box with mine in exchange to go back in the crate. It even came with all fluid already in and ready to go for that price

At £699, the gearbox from the forum sponsor is the way to go if it is compatible with your car or can be made to work by swapping over some components. Mackies would surely be able to this if its possible.
Hope you get sorted.

The £699 gearbox was the first one I saw and my heart jumped when I saw it, but sadly, it's the wrong type. Also, it's from a car older than mine, so I'd be worried about it's longevity. :(

I'm going to ring around and see if there's anywhere that has one off the shelf. I've not called Mackies back yet... I'm almost afraid to hear answers to my questions because if the fluid doesn't fix it, I'm really up against it.

Some (fairly) good news at last!

I called Bristol (thanks for the recommendation) and I gave them the code for my gearbox. They actually have one in stock (albeit in Poland). It'll take a couple of weeks to get here, but they can exchange it for £2700, all-in. They did seem really friendly and knowledgeable. I described the symptoms and he also suggested the mechatronics were at fault.

So, I called Mackies and they said changing the fluid won't make any difference. They have, in my absence, been busy trying to get it working. They reset it to factory adaption but it made no difference. They very generously aren't charging me for any of this work. I also told them about the possibility of a reconditioned gearbox and, although they couldn't do it, they had good things to say about Bristol, so that's a really good sign.

I've got a recommendation for a car transporters, so I'll look into having the car transported from Mackies to Bristol... if I decide to go ahead.

I've just had my cabriolet shipped up to its new owner in Fife, the company used was: http://www.falkirkcarcarriers.co.uk - very professional outfit, I got an update today that the car arrived as expected and was undamaged.

They collect and deliver all over the country.

Good news on the gearbox mate +++

I just called Chester Transmissions too. They don't have a gearbox in stock but they are able to recondition my existing one.

They quoted me £600 to have a reconditioned mechatronic unit, plus around £180 fitting and £150 for fluids, all plus VAT.

If the gearbox needs replacing, the reconditioning would be £1895 + 450 fitting and £150 fluids. Again, all plus VAT.

They're all still steep bills but they're more in the realm of feasibility. The mechatronic unit reconditioning obviously sounds most preferable.

Chester have the advantage of being quite close to Mackies, so the transport costs should be lower too.

...Plenty to weigh up over the weekend.

I hope it works out whatever way you do it. +++

But we all love a story with a good ending :)

Sorry, I didn't notice this post earlier. Strangely enough, that's the same company Mackie recommended! I've asked them for three quotes - one to return the car home to me, one to go to Chester and the other to go to Bristol.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards Chester. I like the idea of there being the possibility of only replacing the mechatronics. Also, if the gearbox does need work, it'll be my existing gearbox that's reconditioned, so all the numbers will still match.

I'll take the weekend to think it over and start on Monday.

Once again, thanks everyone for all your help. I'll keep you posted.

Tony, sorry to hear of your problems with the car, have followed your pursuit for an S8 and if it was me I'd be heartbroken.#

Out of interest, was the car running OK prior to the gearbox flush?

Hi Homer,

Thanks for your kind words. At the moment, I'm consternating about whether to repair or to unload. I've been leaning towards repair all day but sometimes I look at the financials and it's downright scary. It's funny, as at least one of you will know from another forum, I was originally looking to by a Range Rover and was talked out of it by a Land Rover employee who warned me about build quality and reliability. At times like this, I think a Rangie would have been a walk in the park in comparison!

Before the flush, the gearbox had a very slight shudder at around 1800rpm. It also had a pretty severe take-off from standstill when using anything but minimal throttle, but that was eased almost completely after the Terraclean - it seemed to give the engine so much low-down torque that there was little difference between manoeuvring speed and on-gas speed.

Only two things remain on the car to be fixed after the gearbox - the engine has a knock on the top end that isn't too severe, but triggers my OCD. The other is that I suspect he power steering pump is on it's way out because the steering never seems to want to return to centre. If the gearbox fitting requires the removal of the engine, I may ask the repairers to put a new pump in at the same time and just be done with it.

I think Bristol should be able to keep your casing and re-build. As they did with mine. Surprised if not..

And not wanting to hi-jack the post and turn it into S8 common faults but if the engine does come out then it might be worth doing some rear hoses as a preventative measure. I have a failed oxygen sensor (pre cat) and apparently that is an engine out job too. Just because of a poxy sensor that's failed!

If power steering pump was going, I would expect you to get some noise or light vibrations from the steering. So maybe you don't have to worry about that - unless the engine is out anyway for other reasons.

Thanks Kele,

Please don't worry about expanding the scope of this thread, it's all great info and conversations are organic. I've noticed there are two transmission places in Bristol. Which one did you go to?

If I do repair, I think I'll go with Chester. They have a good reputation and keeping the original parts appeals to me. It's a shame that, if the whole gearbox needs to be reconditioned, I'll be paying around £300 more than if Bristol were to replace it. On the flip side, I won't know the history of the box from Bristol (although I can't imagine it can be worse than mine!).

If they are able to repair just the mechatronics, I will have felt like I've had a near miss, but realistically, I think it's likely to be the whole gearbox because it was run with low fluid.

Three questions:

1) Does the gearbox removal require the engine to be taken out?

2) If so, what should I get changed while its out?

3) How much is a power steering pump?

The power steering pump can be tested on the car with a pressure gauge and flow restrictor, the connection to break into and do that is down by the passenger side air box.

The steering pump is almost a grand before discount so would be wise to test rather than replace.

But the hoses on the back side of the engine is a good idea if your in there.

Really hope there is a good outcome to your issues Tony

Thanks very much Del.

Why is everything four figures with this car?!?! I'd be willing to pay it if it lasted as long as it costs, but in my experience at least, that's not been the case.