A8 musings.....
 

So 6 months has passed, and it really is time to let the D4 move on, but its always grated on me that for a car that was better than a D3 in every possible way simple didn't get me excited until probably the last fortnight.

To put this in perspective, in the last 6 months I've done 2000 miles in the A8, and 6000 miles in the TT. The low spec, smallest engine, 2 wheel drive noisy soft top variant that on paper is the one not to have, and yet I've driven it daily. Commuted hundreds of miles and raved about how its so good I'd love the RS version. And I still do.

All whilst the D4 sat on the drive, with its radar cruise, massage seats and sumptuous trimmings did nothing but grow slightly older.

This wasn't a conscious decision. Both cars were taxed, insured, road legal and good to go, but I kept picking up the keys for the TT. Every time.

Its not like you can even pick them apart on running costs. They both nail mid 30's on the motorway, it'd be tough to suggest one is more frugal than the other. If I absolutely had to pick, then the D4 uses slightly less fuel. And the D4 is more comfortable, more prestigious and virtually effortless to drive. I even look infinitely more hetrosexual stepping out of the D4, and its believable I work in IT for a living.

So why didn't I drive the D4 then ?

I couldn't work it out. I Even drove my D2 a few times this summer and I Feel something in that that the D3 often lacked, and the D4 is lacking completely.

'Urgency'

With hindsight, this answer is so bloody obvious than i'm kicking myself hard for missing it, and it goes a lot like this:

In 1994 Audi created the A8, and in their wisdom at the time, us lucky UK folks only got the petrol versions. This meant, that everytime you press the throttle, the car actually moves forward immediately, and if you're lucky enough to have 8 cylinders it will do this rather quite quickly.

In 2002 along came the D3, and fortunately although a diesel model was around, many sensible folk continued to burn the faithful T-rex juice so that getting out of a busy junction was a throttle press, and not a 2 hour planning exercise.

But by the D3 facelift, we're seeing a lot more brontosaurus fuelled cars out there, and they're happy plodding up and down the motorway but when you actually, really want to do something quickly. It just can't.

But this is ok, because we all remember the D3 petrol variants and we know its a fundamentally good car, but will some laggy engines.

So here is 2010. The D4 arrives with a choice of petrol of diesel. Everyone buys diesel. There is a 4.2 FSi but no one buys it. There is a 4.0Tfsi and the S8, both of which rely again on Turbos to really deliver the kick. Start/stop is here and everything has been downtuned to be eco.

If you want a D4 with non-turbo torque off the line, then its going to have to be one of the handful of W12's that are kicking around, and even then only in long wheel base.

And this people, is the crux of my conclusion. For a car to feel sporty, it just simply has to have some go from a standstill. Turbo lag cannot be excused simply because it does twice the MPG.

I am now more interested than ever to try out the new SQ7 with its electric turbo charger on its diesel V8. I wonder if this is the answer to making a diesel feel sporty again ? If so, will we see it in the D5? I'd like to think so.

For me, I now love the D4. I've reset my expectations from a 'newer version of the classic sporty D2' to simply being the best motorway mile munchers I've ever been in, and it fits the bill perfectly.

So, if you want a simply excellent motorway cruiser, get a D4. You absolutely will not be disappointed. Its step up and then some from a D3, never mind the D2.

But, if you've been a D2 enthusiast, or looking for that launch of the line, and MPG isn't the most important factor then join the growing queue of folks looking out for tidy D3 S8's imo +++

I could feel this gradually crescendoing to the conclusion that a D3 S8 would fit the bill +++

I know exactly what you mean. I had a D4 3.0TDI for a couple of months, it was a lovely car and, being new, felt much more luxurious compared to my D2. However there was no acceleration from standstill without really putting your foot to the floor, and then it still lagged. Reverse was even worse, it didn't want to move backwards unless you prodded the pedal with enough force.

Even my wife complained about the lack of progress the D4 made! :ROFL:

The stop/start made pulling out junctions a planned exercise, unless you had remembered to switch it off, which I often did in stop/start traffic.

Getting back in the D2 was such a good feeling, even if it's not quite a refined, maybe that's part of it...

Stuff gets more bloated over time - cars are no different. Which is why I'm sticking with my originals +++ (D2, Model S, Fiat Coupe, etc, etc....)

Yes, I'm more interested than ever in getting my D2 back to fully working condition, but crumbs its a long way from it..... :-(

I'd happily drive it daily if it was sort though.... +++

Nothing like a D3 S8....
 

Hi Ian,

I know what you mean after over 100,000 miles behind the wheel of the lovely V10 engined device. The urgency off the line and the thrill of real revs is still intoxicating. I am looking forward to stretching it's legs at ADI next month. My only reservation is the sheer physical size. We have elected to take our BMW 130i for the trip round Scotland's North Coast 500 because of the narrow/single track roads. Missed S8 on trip up to York!

Are you going back to a D3 S8 again?

Richardracer

I know what you mean... My pf d3 wasn't as fun as the d2, but the 4.2tdi d3 was pretty decent.. Especially remapped :)

The a7 with the supercharged 3.0v6 is pretty nippy from a standing start :)

No, I doubt it. Mainly because good ones are so few and far between, virtually none existent. Plenty of cheap tatty ones around now, but the good ones are really holding their value, so the Yorkshire man in me will need to be finding a different sort of bargain sadly.....

But that's not a 'never'... ;)

The D3 4.2 Tdi was very prompt when remapped - but - it still had the initial lag.

Somehow, they've amplified the lag on the D4. It does have 800nm from the factory, so to be honest its probably a relativity thing. Its so bloody quick when its going, that you really notice when its not +++

That A7 is ripe for a remap to get it moving along just a little nicer still... :D

I think you need to invest on some lead for your right boot +++

Seriously I have a naturally aspirated V8 (granted it is only an S4) and a V8T diesel A8. The difference is the S4 feels and sounds fast, where as the A8 simply is faster without the "fuss" or maybe "fun".....

The current loan car is the latest version of the 4.2TDI, ~380bhp..... maybe because it is a loaner (and they are always faster right) but it seems to trouble the traction control easily on a 4wd car with huge tyres :ROFL:

Is your car on autotrader now?

I have plenty of lead, but its not working +++

To be clear. It isn't about the stopwatch 0-60 times. And its not about the motorway cruise, or the B road overtake, all of which the diesel is perfectly well accomplished at - and possibly better.

Its that first 0.5 seconds after the hammer goes down.

Sat waiting for an eternity for the engine to lug the massive weight forward enough for the engine to spin and the turbos to build some puff and then suddenly we're off at a frantic rate of knots.

Even at higher speeds, and even though the gearbox and engine are incredibly smooth, you know that when your foot goes down there's so much frantic gearbox work going on to mask the otherwise complex torque curve that's happening under bonnet.

I guess, I just prefer it simple. Foot down = already gone. I'm not slating the excellence that is the D4, or even the D3, but more the motor industry in general for leaving us with this 'norm' that actually is rather a backwards step.

We're now turbocharging everything in the pursuit of the smallest, most eco friendly possible start/stop engine with no real guts, relying on puffs of wind to actually get the ball rolling.

The only manufacturer that seems to have properly advanced in the launch department is Tesla, although that's an emotional mix of 'insane' velocity with no noise which is oh so weird. But not totally in a bad way.

I loved my S4. It was manual, and whether it was quick or not, I don't recall to compare, but i felt in control of every cubic inch of capacity. And that was really important with hindsight +++

Give me a little fuss and fun with my luxury. Bring back the 'sport' in the A8....

We are talking about a V8 aren't we? :ROFL:

In seriousness, I know what you mean - but I guess I have adapted to compensate, as given the choice I usually take the A8, not the S4 these days..... Massage seats I guess +++

I guess, Ian that, given your frequently expressed preference for D2 PF throttle linkages consisting of levers and steel wire over FL "fly by wire" , you are missing the feeling of connectedness between your foot and the fuel entering the cylinder?

I have the same issue with my Infiniti, after years of NA petrol engines - 3.5v6 in the skyline, 3.0 flat 6 in the Legacy and 3.2v6 in a honda legend to name a few I now find myself in a fly by wire, black box filled turbo diesel lump.

I just find the lag and lack of urgency irritating at times. Yes, it will chew the miles without issue and return 30(ish) mpg but the ability to slip past a slower motorist in a country filled with single carriageway A & B roads is probably a deal breaker when it comes to change.......just a pity Infiniti binned the 5.0 v8 in the fx last year :(

Haven't had a chance to stretch the S8's legs yet but I'm looking forward to a good run up the Glenshane pass to blow the cobwebs out of it (and me) soon.....and maybe pass (safely) the odd slow Ulster motorist

I know what you mean exactly. My current D3 is roughly the same 0-60 as my old beloved RS Clio 172. The Clio felt like a rocket. The D3 doesn't. Partly it's because of refinement, but the lag as you pull away highlights the difference.

I think it's obvious what you need Ian.

A Tesla P100D. Simple. All that torque from 0 RPM. I know I want one.

I think it can be remapped easily, though I've not actually checked properly.. Lots of maps for the 333hp S4 variant of the engine, which I assume is just a different map/rev range anyway. Shark are doing 25% off in September, and it's been soooo hard not to charge in and buy a Stage 1+ map and just watch my fuel consumption figures disappear.

Definitely wouldn't complain if one landed on my driveway, but its unlikely to happen as the Yorkshireman in me just cannot get past the RS6 topping purchase price.

And if I had C7 RS6 money lying around, I'll be honest. I think I'd have the RS6. Ok. Yes, I know I would....

Yes, the turbos are big and quite laggy, but its the one exception that I'll consider it still sporty :D

I wouldn't bank on the MPG going down. In most cases its documented to improve. I assume the remaps exchange tight emission control for more power and thus MPG....

The RS6 certainly had better MPG after its MRC stage 2, despite hitting 700 ponies and 1000nm... bonkers +++

I think its very easy to misjudge just how fast D4's (4.2) are, the refinement makes it feel quite mediocre, but while driving completely normally not particulaly trying to fly away from the lights and not even in sport, a quick glance in the rearview reveals that the rest of the flock are miles behind.

there is a lag, much less if its in sport mode, know what you mean by the fly by wire feel but to be honest its enough for me.

im still very happy with mine, its just a great place to be and everything just works so superbly

I'm happy with my D3 3.0 TDI (remapped)
Even more so after this mornings drive into Holland

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Take the S8! You'll never forgive yourself after driving around there in something smaller, honestly. +++

I've been all over the NW of Scotland in my S8's (D2's not D3's but only a tiny bit smaller) and never had a problem on any of the roads.
(And that includes the infamous Wee Mad Road through Inverkirkaig) Remember, all the van drivers get through, so why wouldn't you?

And those arrow-straight single-track roads are great in a big fast mile-muncher. :snigger:

That's reassuring Andrew, as I'm planning to do this in either the S8 or the Tesla (the latter being a wee bit larger...)

Tesla bigger than S8? :Confused:

Bigger battery, at least!

Take the 8! Roads like these are more fun in an 8.

having driven it in some tight situations yes it is wider, however like you I was surprised;)

Yes, in terms of width (not length) which caught me out. It's wider than all the S8 variants, and considerably more so than a D2 and D3 - I parked mine behind an Aston Martin and was surprised to find the Tesla was wider than it.

Overall measurements (from t'internet...)
Model S - 4,978 mm L x 1,963 mm W x 1,435 mm H
Audi S8 D2 - 5,034 mm L x 1,880 mm W x 1,438 mm H
Audi S8 D3 - 5,062 mmL x 1,894 mm W x 1,444 mm H
Audi S8 D4 - 5,135 mm L x 1,949 mm W x 1,460 mm H