Anyone live in Bolton ????
 

Guys.... need to ask some advice from someone who lives in or near the Bolton area.

So if you happen to live in Bolton and wouldn't mind giving me some advice asap, I would appreciate a pm as I need help with a car.

Thanks in advance guys !

Isn't Ray in Wigan - not far?

I'm fairly close also, but I'm away the next few days....

Hi Paul...... pm sent !!!!!

Thx !

I'm fairly close to Bolton too.

Depending on what advice it is you need, I may be able to help.

Hi Mark...... pm sent !!!!!

Thx !

Any others reside in this area ?

As HP says, Ray (tc4332) is in Wigan.

There's a chance Ray might know the place. Partly because it's quite local to him but also because Ray knows everyone! :D

Cheers guys !!!!!

PM sent to Ray !!!

Thanks for all your rather nice comments.
Mark is slightly wrong in his comment about "everyone", there was a chap on the train the other day that I had not met before, but I did know both the driver and guard. Quite nice when the driver pokes his head out his window and shouts "Morning Ray".
I have answered the PM but have no personal knowledge of the company but have some feelers out.

This has become rather strange.
I'll bring you up to date but can't repeat what Ricky has told me via PMs (I have to leave that to him)
None of my contacts have heard of this car sales firm.
So I mounted my trusty 8 and had a drive to the area.
The address they gave was "Unit 22" in this Industrial Estate.
They had the road name correct but the units only went up to 21.
Across the road from these units was a new one numbered 1004, and I did find one that claimed to be 35.
Everything else was very large conglomerate food factories and warehouses.
Ricky told me that they claimed to have two other warehouses where they stored theiir cars. One in Exeter and one in Sunderland.
Now it seems that their web page has vanished.

Suspected it was a scam :mad: just hope no money exchanged hands?

Good work that man! Are you available for PI hire generally Ray? ;)

Only if i can have my son Craig with me.
He is our youngest, about 6 foot tall 9 foot wide and nicknamed Tank.
He must be allowed to wear shades

Good work Ray!

I'm guessing this car never existed. Probably some sort of deposit scam. Advertise non-existent cars cheaply then urge potential buyers to pay a deposit to secure the car before seeing it.


Gonna need a bigger car I think.

Although you don't say how deep he is. Width might not be a problem if he's thin enough to fold in half.

You have met him Mark, at the Christmas meet when we first got to know each other.

And with those dimensions, who's going to argue with what he wears +++

Of course, I remember now. And very nice bloke he is too. Certainly not foldable but appeared to fit in your 8 without any problem +++

Good Morning Guys !

I feel I have to explain myself a little now that I’ve had a little help from the forum, so here goes with my tail of woe!

I have been tempted 2 buy a car from Enville Motors in Bolton. Their website is www.envillecars.net, they apparently trade from Bolton, and they specialise in repossessions & end of lease cars. They told the following:

1. They repossess the cars and store them in one of their two warehouses, one in Exeter, and one in Sunderland. The car I was enquiring about was apparently stored in Exeter.
2. They also tell me after they repossess a vehicle they pay the outstanding finance on the cars and the flags are removed from the register so all their cars are HPI clear.
3. They say they advertise the car and try to sell the car immediately, but any that don’t sell go to auction with the advertised price being their starting price at auction. They apparently hold their auctions twice a month and cars are available for viewing and test drives on the day of the auction. Should you be happy to buy over the phone, they ask for a 40% deposit and £200 delivers the car to your home address, where you have the option of a 100 mile test drive and a free no question asked 5 day returns policy. I know this alone sounds dodgy as it could be a way to getting you to send them money and no car ever appears, but they do give you the other option of viewing and test driving before purchasing at auction. That coupled with the fact they have been in business since 2009 gave me some sort of positivity!
4. They say their prices are very low because the cars are repossessed and they don’t have showroom overheads.

To say I'm reluctant is obviously the understatement of the year, as we all know, when things look 2 good 2 be true they usually are, but my reason for posting on the forum was simply to see if anyone in the area knew them or anything about their reputation. Are they respectable or dodgy company? The other problem I have is that Google doesn’t seem to bring up much, which I find strange, as they have been in business since 2009. Having said all that, there is a possibility this is all-legit as I know repossessed cars and end of lease cars have to be sold somewhere. I simply needed some sort of concrete evidence before I would proceed and as of yet that hasn't surfaced.

Their prices seemed REALLY cheap which alone makes us all sceptical and nervous, but they have been trading since 2009 which made me think this couldn’t be a scam if its been trading for so long. In general it all sounds fair enough but the scientism in me just has doubts. At the end of the day if they were legit, the car I'm considering is a 2016 car so still covered under the manufacturers warranty.


The address on their website is stated below, and Ray has kindly taken a drive to see what he could see, and apparently Unit 22 does not exist!

Enville Motors. Unit 22, Westhoughton, Great Banks Road, Wingates Industrial Estate, Bolton, BL5 3XU. When I use Google maps for this I find the industrial estate but cant see anything to give me concrete evidence it exists.


When I received their sales invoice the sellers registered address is :

9 Cambria Square, Bolton, Greater Manchester, BL3 4DF. When I use Google maps and look for this it’s simply a house in the middle of a housing estate. The director of this company is Shahul Hameed Mohamed Nasar, and his company number in companies house is 07082572.


The only money I have been out so far is a cheap flight, which is really no big deal, and I would never have sent money without viewing a physical car. I did do a full HPI check myself and the car in question did show up clear. Unfortunately I have read stories online about HPI checks being clear and guys still got their cars lifted at a later date because there was still money owning on them. Strange!!!! How can that actually happen?

I have asked Envillecars to supply the finance companies name that was involved with the repossession so I can call them and satisfy myself. They were reluctant to give me the companies name and told me to satisfy myself with an HPI check. They did say they would consult their manager about giving me the details and get back to me, which obviously has never happened.

I have actually booked a flight for a viewing this Wednesday, but after I received a message a few nights I'm not so sure I will even use it now. One of the advertised pictures used on the Enville Motors website had a picture of a car parked beside a nice shed and it was being advertised for 10.5k. Nothing out of the ordinary there, except I recognised the shed because it is used in photos from a prestige dealer up the country a little. I over the years have admired some of his stock, and that’s the reason why I noticed it. Anyhow, I emailed the specialised dealer and told him my dilemma, and he asked me to forward him the photo. When I did he came back to me straight away and told me.... in his own words.....


I hope you really don't believe this is true?
We sold this car three weeks ago for over £20000.

Please do not part with any money.

Will be reporting this, appreciate you contacting us.


So immediately alarm bells are ringing. The car I was looking to buy is HPI clear, as I have personally checked. They told me Wednesday was the best day to visit their warehouse and they said they would hold the car for me until I come over if I booked a flight. All seemed fine to be honest. Their website was decent and I assumed a company trading from 2009 should be legit enough. Woke the next morning to now find their website doesn't seem to work, possibly be taken down. I immediately thought the specialised dealer had been quick off the mark and had reported them resulting in their website being taken down. But the website has appeared since then again. It seems to work sometimes and not others!

So that’s my story of the week! Interesting? LOL

I know what you’re all thinking, who in their right mind would even consider buying a car from this crowd with all these doubts. Well, if I’m being honest, although I had my doubts, I thought, why not for the curiosity go and have a look? What harm can that do? I have HPI checked the car and it was clear, and the HPI guys guarantee if you lose out because of the information they supply they will cover you up to a value of 30K. The only exception to this is that they wont cover you if the selling price of the car is less than 30% below the market value, which you guessed it, happens to be applicable in my circumstance! So I’m thinking, if I was happy with all my own personal checks, and was able to view both the car and its documents before transferring any money, I thought what could possibly go wrong? In fact, I still can’t get my head around how they have been in business so long, yet they have no Google presence. SO WHAT ARE THEY SELLING, WHATS THE ATCH HERE? I’m not in anyway saying anything bad about this company, but I just have my doubts hence the reason for asking for help on the forum!!!! I still have a flight booked to fly tomorrow to view on Wednesday if I have a change of heart! LOL !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...psxuxmpo1p.png


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...psreksyelz.png

So I guess the question is :

Who would run a mile or who would take a chance and go to for a jolly to view something that may or not be there ? LOL.

Royal Mail does NOT recognise that address.
Postcode is valid but within it nothing resembling that unit number or business name. :tuttut:

Their website is hosted offshore by shinjiru.com, who offer identity protection and anonymous payment. Something you'd do if you didn't want to be traced.

Companies House data doesn't shed much light either - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

I'd file in the too difficult/risky bin, personally...

I can not imagine any reason why they would then sell one of these for less than 30% of the market value. Bailiffs are not known for philanthropy.
On the other hand a price of less than 30% off the market value is a huge hook to engage the interest of someone, to the point where they can overcome their cynicism and fork out money to secure that 'bargain'.

Or. Look at this another way. If they are selling cars with significant discounts. Why would they waste time advertising or anything, when the motor trade will be queuing up to take them off their hands.

Setting up a company is easy. Is there anything to stop you registering a dozen or so, sitting on them for a few years, and then trading as though they have been around a while.

I completely 100% agree buddy, and I know your just stating the obvious ! Having said that, I just couldn't get my head around why the emails kept coming to the point of me booking a flight, so I could view the car and documents before buying. Had they given up contact the minute I told them I wouldn't buy before seeing the physical car, I could certainly understand the scam thing !!!!

It's called playing them at their own game. A couple of years ago I came across an Audi on Autotrader. As with these things, everything was too good to be true, but I decided to bite by sending the usual "I'm interested" email, but needing some additional information. Also dropped in that because I live in NI, I needed to be sure about things before jumping on a plane. Anyway, kept them going for about a week with fairly basic questions that you'd ask, without getting into the real important questions. In the end I gave up as they were refusing to answer some of the questions. I suspect that so long as they think they can finally reel you in, they will continue to respond.

A couple of other interesting facts as well to ponder. Matty mentioned about the identity protection. In addition to that, the domain name has only been in existence for 10 days. If you do a search on Google, you'll also get a couple of Facebook hits. Both of these seem to have been in existence for about the same time, and have links to the site. No other posts, friends, links or anything else.

I would strongly recommend you give this a very wide berth. If it looks like bullish!t, smells like bullish!t then it probably is. I would follow the advice of the local dealer you spoke to.
It may also be worth calling the local trading standards and asking if they have any knowledge of this company.

I'm not suggesting that it is the case, my view from the start on this was steer clear - but who is to say that the person you are talking to actually has anything to do with the company (or indeed the car)!?

Perhaps the companies house registration is legit and for an unrelated business, the details are very public and so very easy to use.

The car is likely a real car, just probably one that they don't actually own. VIN and registration plates are on display, find one that is HPI clear and finance free and you have all you need to ensure a clean HPI report.

Spin a line, gain a deposit, disappear and leave little but confusion and anger - rinse and repeat.

Edited to add: the only reason they didn't get away with it was they got greedy, if they had asked for a smaller deposit I suspect you would have deemed that more reasonable and possibly gone ahead. 40% was a joke, but if they asked for £1k refundable if you didn't like the car I suspect you (or someone else) would be much more likely to be looking for the non-existent building at the end of the road - and learning the hard way that faster payments can not be reversed!?

All the original emails, phone calls, in fact all communications to that point led me to believe this was legit. That coupled with the fact that I could view before handing over any money were enough to satisfy me to simply book my cheap £69 flight. Its only after I booked the flight and spent a number of nights investigating a little deeper that I am able to say what I have said in my post. No matter what the situation I would never put a deposit on any car no matter how much of a bargain it was without viewing !

So in brief, there is no way in the world that I am now going to pursue the car, but as Ray had mentioned details on this post I thought it wasn't fair to ask for help and then not tell others what the situation was, or indeed leave other members wondering what my post was all about.

I therefor simply put the post up as a warning to others and at the end of the day its a interesting one for various reasons so I thought others could benefit from hearing the story.

So to sum it all up, £69 lost but a little knowledge gained. No big deal from my point of view !

All replies and help appreciated guys !

I have no doubt you have hit the nail on the head with this post buddy !!!!

Yesterday the telephone number was :



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...psxuxmpo1p.png



Today their telephone number is :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...psmtswverv.png

I have to say dealing with people trying to order online sometimes that the Bolton / Rochdale areas near Manchester are a particular hotbed of fraud / stolen card use and when challenged these people normally either hang up or try to bull**** you. avoid avoid avoid - take your flight and have a nice day in the city or something!! +++

I have to say that is a huge generalisation and not fair - there are a lot of legitimate businesses and individuals in Bolton and Rochdale I'm sure - I'm not from either but I'm not far off :tuttut:

Paul I was very careful in what I said and I didn't generalise about the whole populations - I simply stated a fact that in MY dealings across the whole country there are a couple of areas where we regularly get SOME people trying it on and /or trying to use cards which are not theirs to have goods delivered - and I'm afraid that one area is there and the other is Slough / Uxbridge. In both cases we have also taken many orders and delivered them to those areas when they have checked out ok but they are area where we have to be particularly careful to "avoid being defrauded" in some cases. No offence meant but when people are trying to steal thousands of pounds off your business by defrauding you with other people's stolen cards then it does rather put the damper on your enthusiasm!

I don't believe your assertions are statistically sound nor are they really relevant to the thread, but hey your a moderator and I'm not so I will leave that to your better judgement.

Sorry but really don't understand why you even contemplated this at all, from what you say it's clearly very dodgy. Just glad you saw sense in the end and took advice from these chaps;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86URGgqONvA

As stated Paul they are sound to MY PERSONAL experiences - nobody else's, and they were relevant to the thread because the thread was about someone trading from an 01206 Bolton phone number who has now changed it to a Manchester one! My being a moderator has nothing to do with anything so not sure why you even mention it, my contributions to the forum of over 5000 posts and my views as a long standing member of the forum I guess will allow any other members to take what I say as I would expect, my personal opinion and experiences, and no doubt those that know me would know that I made them to contribute to the relevant discussion going on on this thread, so it is I that don't understand your strong protests on this one as I have neither moderated anything or tried to besmirch anyone in particular! :Confused:

When's your flight (presumably to Manchester). To Neil's second point, you could have an nice day out in one of the UK's finest cities. Let me know, and if I'm around I may even pick you up from the airport ;)

Very nice, typical, offer from a Forum member, Steve(TinTin)..
Unfortunately Ricky's flight was to Exeter because that is where the "car" is supposed to be. :love:

Very decent of you buddy ! Thank you !

But as Ray has already said my flight was to Exeter and I was supposed to fly today. Have already made other plans so the flight has been forgot about.

Exeter is lovely for a day out :D

Report your experience to these guys here

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud

As for paying a deposit without viewing, I think it depends where you're buying from. I bought a car last week with a phone deposit subject to inspection (paid on credit card for protection just in case), picked it up today, happy days