Want Audi estate for my wife -- please advise
 

Team,

I've never been on car market since 2010
And it looks like I miss some important wisdom here

It is time to get "estate" family car for my wife
(ideally in "women's colour", i.e. lipstick red)
Budget £10k+ or so

1. want Petrol
2. want Manual
3. want low RPM on highway speeds for good noise comfort
4. want simplicity and something that will last forever if maintained properly

Would happily buy just another D2 FL 3.7,
but they are not available with estate chassis & manual
(my A8 3.7 makes 1.5k RPM @ 70mph @ 5th gear, which is absolutely superb)

Interestingly, don't see many A3, A4 and A6s on the market with 1. large displacement naturally aspirated petrol engines 2. with manual
It looks like v8 and v6 engines are only found in S- or RS- series, but those won't satisfy my 3rd criteria since they will rev like crazy at motorway speeds.

Please advise what I should look at -- I will welcome all your comments!

Also, where should I search for used cars sold in the UK?
(I have only looked at autotrader.co.uk and cars section on eBay)
What's the ultimate place to find great stuff these days?

A6 2.7tt??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113037347726?

Not exactly a ladies colour, and I assume with £10k you're after something a little newer?

Good call, thanks
Those old A6s can be an option
Interestingly you can't find those big displacement engines on newer A6s

I was thinking A4 B7 with the 3.2 FSI, but there's only one red one on ebay and its an auto https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-56-A...5/173354093760

There's a bit more choice if you go diesel https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-55-A...R/163070549505

This red-painted 'Black Edition' (ie de-chromed) looks lush, but misses the drivetrain mark completely with a 2.0TDI auto https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4-2...d/142816407842

Going up a size to the C6 A6, there is a darker metallic red available but its pretty rare. Otherwise everything is monochrome or dark blue. Not much choice of fun colours there, and most of them are diesels.

You might have specified a unicorn there ;) Maybe buy something monochrome and wrap it a fun colour?

Admittedly the one in the advert has been modified to 320bhp and carries a premium in their asking price. Quite rare now to find a nice clean example of the A6 2.7tt.

Thanks Mikki -- will followup on all your suggestions.
This is exactly what I think -- I specified a unicorn !!
Happy to sacrifice colour.

i think you will need to consider the TFSI engine
-----------------------------------------------------
be careful withe older stuff 56reg etc
do a DVLA check as some 3.2 petrols carry the dredded £540 a year taxdisc

Thanks Roberto!

Are they 'bullet proof'?

Direct injection looks scary after D2!

Its fairly easy to find something that ticks three of the four boxes, but a full house in a fun colour is going to be a challenge...

Cheers Miki.
Forgot the colour.
Replaced it with 'immaculate condition'...

You thought about looking at others in VAG , Seat, Skoda, VW etc?

Good idea Brian. Perhaps Passat.

Good idea. A nice red Estelle perhaps? ;)

Wow! That looks very nice. It reminds me of the A6 Avant I had below. It was only a 2.0TDI (de-badged ;) )
But it looked the dog's doodahs - if you like red.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1528406646

I'm looking for a smaller car to replace Big Red as a daily driver but now I've seen those it makes me think. Perhaps there's an A3 in red with black trim kicking around.

Behave yourself:tuttut:

:D

was thinking more along the lines of this, though it's not manual, and no pics as yet, sounds like a girly colour though, and a nice engine+++

https://www.templarcars.co.uk/used-c...01806067234024


There is only one estate option IMHO, but it meets very few of your criteria Sergey...it's petrol, thats about it really+++ but it will get the kids to school very quickly:D

Thanks Brian. Will take a look at Skodas.

Hmmmm.

I think in your shoes, I would try and steer away from the manual option, as that is really narrowing the field of comfortable motorway cruisers.

....and then in that case I would seek out a 4.2 V8 C6 Avant.

They come with a lots of toys, and go forever, including the auto box.

They change hands for peanuts as traditional soot burning A6 owners shy away from the fuel cost, but will get a move on when needed to and will cruise beautifully.

Anything much newer is going to get smaller engine, more revs and more servicing complexity I suspect.

For what its worth, the big RS models tend to cruise quite well too. They have lots of torque and the gear ratios use it. The S models do tend to be a bit revyy though....

To put it in perspective, the C6 RS6 will cruise at lower revs and better MPG than the C6 S6..... +++

The other thing to do, with autotrader, is dont specify the car, or brand, but the criteria you have put....

Set petrol, manual, 5 door, the years, budget, mileage etc and see what brands it comes back with.

It sometimes brings out some stuff you'd not thought of.

I'd probably dial the engine size up a bit also to get rid of the high revving dross though +++

Ditto all the advice so far. My 2p, don't think you need a V8 for a motorway cruiser - speed limits in the UK are a lot lower than the autobhan!

We have a 1.4TSI Golf, turbo charged and super charged with about 150 bhp, very comfortable motorway cruiser! Modern engines and gearboxes can twist your mind a little +++

Cheers Ian and Paul.
Great advice !!

Depends what size is suitable Sergey - the 4 cylinder lumps are pretty mundane mostly, but if fuel usage around town is in any way a factor then they certainly are worth a look.

Skoda Octavia vRS estate is the width of a Golf but has rear legroom not dissimilar to the A8 (just much tighter to get that 3rd person the rear bench!). They also come in a number of funky colours - kermit green is my favourite, as is the distinctive blue. £10k will net you a leggy 4 yr old one - £13k a minter with low miles

If fuel is less of an issue than the S4 avant with the supercharged engine is a decent option. I'd steer clear of a manual on tax and driving experience grounds. I can't recall the revs at motorway speed, but I'm pretty sure that even at 100mph it's less than 3k rpm in 7th gear. I'd try and get a late 2010 on example, or one that's had an s-tronic box. They changed the gearbox oil filtration system and reliability is much improved. Our S5 has had one gearbox service and there's no cambelt to change. It's getting a supercharger and aux belt next week as a precaution at 58k miles. They make excellent motorway cars.

Unfortunately cooking versions of larger cars are almost entirely diesel fuelled at that age/price point

Thanks Adrian !!

>> I'd steer clear of a manual on tax and driving experience grounds.

Are you saying that manual attracts higher tax?

Also what 'automatic' is bullet proof? There are many options out there now...

The manual S4 avant is in the over £500 bracket, whereas auto is £300ish - they also sold in TINY numbers as a result, before Audi dropped the manual option completely. They also suffer with clutch release arm and bearing problems as well as dual mass flywheel....

The s-tronic is reliable if the car isn't re-mapped and thrashed to death with lots of launch control starts or too much torque. Ours (2011 model) has been perfect. You need to learn to drive them to be sympathetic to the drivetrain (avoid creeping, let your foot off the brake and allow drive to engage before going near the throttle in stop-start traffic) but it's all about being smooth with it. My wife gets it, and she's not mechanically sympathetic at all!

The 6 speed ZF requires less maintenance, but as the conscientious person I know you to be, I know you'd end up getting the gearbox serviced anyway. The s-tronic requires an oil and filter change around every 38k.

If you went for one on sensible wheels (18s or 19s on the S4 - our S5 is on 20s, which weren't an option on the S4) and if you can find one, adaptive damping, it'll ride really well. Even on standard suspension with 18s it rides perfectly well.

They don't do a Golf GTI estate, but as an idea of what the 2.0T in the Skoda is capable of achieving, we did a road trip recently with 3 people, boot full of luggage and a towbar mounted bike carrier with 3 bikes on it, cruising at 85-90 and some local work while away and got 32mpg on a tank average. It's relatively easy to get 35mpg.

If you're down Gatwick way welcome to have a ride and see what you think?

Many thanks Adrian.

It looks like we will not get engaged with S and RS series -- too sporty and too high rpm on motorways.

S5 not available in Avant, so not considering that one too.

I wonder what is the most bullet proof engine and gearbox combination. Still believe it is Petrol + Manual. Really want something that doesn't break due to simplicity. I love keeping cars for a very long time, this is why I think this way.

Is it worth considering increasing budget and going for a newer A4 Avant models, i.e. years 2014-15 or so? Or is it a bad idea since engines became so complicated these days due to environmental restrictions. It looks like manuals are slowly dying for modern mainstream cars. Where this world is going... Perplexed.

S4 in 7th gear is doing 38mph at 1000rpm so will be less rpm at 70mph than 3.7 D2 which is doing 34mph at 1000rpm in 5th. If you want any less rpm you will pretty much be limited to diesels.

Ainars, amazing.
Which S4?

2012-2015 automatic, earlier ones are shorter gearbox, later ones have 8 speed box and even lower rpm

Have a look here: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/

Love it. Thanks for educating me!

It looks like I missed the whole era of car industry.

Ageed on the petrol.

The 3.0 TDi and 4.2 Tdi are actually pretty reliable overall. The smaller ones seem less so.

On the 6 speed boxes fitted to the D3, C6, Q7 4L etc, I wouldn't have to take my socks off to count how many of those I've seen fail. In fact, I think one hand would do it. And that's in 15 years !

Bear in mind the RS6's are regularly pushing 1000nm and 750bhp+ and have been for nearly a decade, and I don't recall ever seeing a C6 RS6 with a failed box....

The D2 and C5 gearboxes were some sort of feeble composite of chocolate and children's play putty. Don't make a sweeping transmission choice based on that experience alone.... +++

Ian, thanks again for opening my eyes.
So, A6 C6 Petrol with Automatic will be reliable long term runner.

I'll also check S4s Automatic years 2012+ like Ainars has recommended.

just a quick diesel mention
my mate took a 2.0tdi A6 C6 manual to 300,000 miles (not my cup of tea though)
he serviced it regularly and only had 2 issues Alternator and Aircon pump

anyway dont forget to check for g/km any car over 225 is £540 +

THESE are seriously good value (OLD AUDI A4 AVANT BODY) search for a red one !

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01806087317870

OR push the boat out and get this .. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01803064318904

checking road tax costs?

just put the reg number in this site below to check

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ViewVehicle

Hi Sergey

I only mentioned our S5 as it’s mechanically identical to the S4. Ainars is right that facelifted models (rectangular front fogs replace round) are better on fuel due to gearing and a different supercharger - plus they have stop-start. One with small wheels rides perfectly well

All modern autos are designed to get into a high gear ASAP for CO2 reasons, which means driven gently they are all pretty much seamless when changing gear. Autos also work better with all the modern driver assist gubbins

As you know the d2 was built to last - anything modern i’d consider 10 years about the maximum you’d want to own one. Modern paint is pretty poor for a start even before you look at mechanicals

If you’ve not driven anything recent I’d definitely recommend trying some options before firming up your requirements. The offer to try the S5 for the driving experience is a genuine one if you wanted to. Think you’d be surprised by how refined it is

Many thanks Roberto. The info you provide is brilliant.

Will still prefer Audi brand though.

No A6 C6s on the market in red now :(
Haven't known they are so reliable.

Cheers Adrian !!

Perhaps we should drive to see you & test drive your s-tronic S5.

Based on what I hear from Roberto & Ian A6 C6 is very reliable.
We like the shape as well.

A4 side is also VERY appealing since the car is smaller and will be easier to park & garage. Will need to identify a good engine / gearbox combo for those.

Meanwhile, if anyone will see A6 C6 in lipstick red please share the link.

No worries mate - more than welcome (we're now next to Pease Pottage services on M23)

You'll find plenty of S4 Avants in bright red - popular choice - as well as white or a really nice blue.

I suspect if you want the newer model with longer gearing it'll bust your budget though.

Worth having the panoramic sunroof on the Avant - really makes the cabin a lot more airy.

A/S4 is a LOT easier to park than the A6, which is really no smaller than the D2.

This is a facelift S4 avant in the right colour - not ideal spec (I'd prefer full leather) but small wheels

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01803274962346

4.2's yes, but the 3.2's do have issues I believe... I'd stay clear of them....

That is lovely example you provided Adrian.
Assuming RPM on top gear is low -- Ainars has taught me how to check this easily.
And perhaps we can stretch budget to buy out this example.

The only issue here is 'can I trust this dodgy s-stronic gearbox...?' :) :)
I can believe Ian and Roberto that ZF created bulletproof gearbox for A6 C6 that will last 'forever'.
But my mind is unprepared yet to see the 'outstretched hand of opportunity' in s-tronic cars... Maybe I'm an idiot...

This is damn good example though.
Where can I read about reliability of these s-tronics?

Adrian, because you know S4 Avant platform, can you provide search criteria for the most bullet proof cars?
For example S4 chassis XX, years from XX to XX, engine XX, gearbox XX.
That will remove many variables from equation for me!

`Perfect Ian.
Now I know exactly what config of A6 C6 to look for: A6 C6 Avant 4.2 Petrol with ZF Automatic.
(I remember Mikki was saying something about difficulty to access engine due to wide fenders and narrow bonnet in these cars, but this is a minor issue I guess)
Tried to search Autotrader for this config and there is no single A6 Avant with 4.2 engine... Am I doing something wrong? :)
Tried to search Autotrader for S8 Avant and C6 chassis come with 5.2 engine, but no 4.2 again...

>> I'll also check S4s Automatic years 2012+ like Ainars has recommended.

Any specific engine/gearbox combo? What are the most 'high-reliability' versions from S4 Avant 2012+ world? It looks like they are mostly 's-tronic'...
Adrian proved example of car above. 2013 S4 Avant -- '1 LADY OWNER - STUNNING'. 3 Later petrol -- no idea about them. Any feedback from reliability point of view? Shall I view it?

The budget is now anywhere between 10k and 20k.

Thanks everyone for helping me.
I'm catching up decades of missed information.

The large petrol models will tend to be older, as demand post 2005 just died for those type of engines.

I would say with s-tronic in the A/S4 quattro models is reliable from 2011 onwards. The main change they made was to add a filter that became part of the service schedule to change - any earlier car that's had a box will have had the later one fitted, but if budget will stretch I'd be looking at the 2012 facelift I mentioned before with rectangular front fogs.

If the S doesn't float your boat, have a look for A4 2.0T but make sure it's quattro or it's got the CVT multitronic which is hateful.

Understood Adrian. Thanks!!

So today I'll be viewing the car that you suggested:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01803274962346

Will let you know the output...

*** If anyone has an opinion about reliability of this car please post here asap ***


Update: Tried to check tax rate via Roberto's link https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ViewVehicle
and I get:
"The vehicle tax rates are only available if you have the latest 11 digit reference number from the V5C registration certificate (logbook)"

Hope this won't attract dreaded £540 p.a. bill