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-   -   Tyre Brands - Price vs Quality? (https://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15099)

irelandbuyer 8th July 2019 04:53 PM

Tyre Brands - Price vs Quality?
 
HI All,

I'm getting new tyres (replacing Pirelli). The same are working out about 200 a corner. Looking at the brands, there's a chunky enough price difference between premium:

Bridgestone/Continential/Dunlop/Goodyear/Michelin/Pirelli

and Medium Class:

Falken/Fulda/Hankook/Uniroyal/Vredestein.

Given I do about 3k miles per year, and dont really want to cough up nearly 1k to change all, does anyone have any views on what way to go?

Realise a lot is down to personal preference, budget etc..but also safety and longevity of the tyre is important too...

Interested in any views.

Many thanks

snapdragon 8th July 2019 05:22 PM

I tend to get Korean (South) ones these days. While 30 years ago they couldn't even make toilet paper they have become a first world country. Hankook are OE fit on many VAG cars, even PORSCHES and I find them as good as the premium brands some of which have some really terrible tyres on offer. I have EU CAA rated NEXEN N'fera SU1s at the moment they are factory fitted to the Genesis G80 and I find them really good.

Joe2.0E 8th July 2019 07:14 PM

I am on my 2nd set of Hankook Ventus, far better than Goodyear Eagle F1 in terms of mileage, no noticeable difference in grip/handling or noise.
Online can be well cheaper if you can wait a week or so for shipping.

tintin 8th July 2019 07:32 PM

Part worns?
 
For me - as posted elsewhere before - getting 1st class (i.e. Michelin/Contis/Pirellis only..) partworns from a reliable source are the answer to avoiding paying over the odds for tyres.

Saving more than £5k on this over 3 or 4 years, while covering around 100k in that time, and getting 1st class handling with zero quality or safety issues speaks for itself for me.

ainarssems 8th July 2019 09:02 PM

I have mostly been using premium second had tyres. Michelin are definitely my favourites. Anything else I tried from premium are fine while fresh but as they get 3-5 years old the become hard and loose grip quite a lot.

Not really much experience with medium range, I have had couple that come with the car and normally old age and not much grip same as old premium.

Cheap ones I only bought new, they are OK while knew but wears out soon so no experience long term.

I now put Three A P606 on A6. So far so good, feel better than Continental I had on before, done about 1500 miles in 3 weeks good mix of all kinds of roads, mostly hard driving. So far does not seem to have excessive wear but too early to say.

sarg 8th July 2019 10:33 PM

Michelin every time where available.

Unlike others, I wouldn't touch part worns, not for the only small patch of rubber between you and the road.

I'd also be put off by budget tyres if I was looking to buy a car, tells me the car has probably had corners cut in its maintenance

Adrian E 9th July 2019 08:03 AM

Michelins have been the preference on the last 4 cars I've owned - they've generally come with something else fitted and I have tried Goodyear, Dunlop and Continental in the past. It's so vehicle specific in terms of how well they work that I now tend to go with Michelins by default. Given tyres for me are something I buy every 2-3 years, at least, I don't want to make a 'mistake' and find I don't like what I have paid good money for.

The S5 came with Contis at 2 years old (they were actually older than the car, so think were part worns put on to sell the car) and they tramlined dreadfully. Similar experience on our C5 A6 when I fitted them new - they also wore out in half the time of the Goodyears that were on it before with noticeable edge wear that rendered them illegal well before the centre tread was below 4mm! Alignment was spot on.

We rotate winters on the S5, so the summer Michelin Super Sport 20s still have 5.5mm tread all round and are wearing evenly and still grip brilliantly, despite being 4.5 years old. I don't monitor mileage between tyres, but we do 7-8k a year in it, with plenty of town work which kills the Contis.

I'm about to finally wear out the pair of Bridgestones that were fitted to our 2015 Golf at the factory, having swapped them off the back. Put Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on the back, which will get rotated to the front, and a new pair of PS4 on the back. They are so much better in terms of noise and grip it's just silly, as the price difference isn't that marked.

I had no choice but to run part worns 25 years ago, and had a few close shaves with bulges in sidewalls and dodgy puncture repairs. Not a massive issue on a 1969 Cortina that struggled to top 80mph. The industry isn't properly regulated so standards vary massively across the country - for instance tyres shouldn't be stacked when stored, but 99% of part worn dealers I've visited do precisely that! There's a voluntary code of conduct for part worn dealers, that was written when I was involved in tyre regulation, but it never got off the ground as far as I'm aware as the industry had to change tack to fight off efforts by the waste regulators to class all part worn tyres as waste, which meant storage limits and fire prevention equipment on a massive scale. Not sure where it had got to now. Basically if you are fortunate enough to live near a part worn dealer with a good track record of not being taken to court by Trading Standards and supplying properly inspected product, not an issue. After all, every tyre in use is 'part worn' so I don't buy into the hysteria the new tyre suppliers try to push that part worn = automatically bad.

On premium vs mid-range, I tend to find the price difference doesn't balance the performance and longevity to the point I'm prepared to gamble on them being any good over a period of years of use.

MikkiJayne 9th July 2019 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian E (Post 151535)
for instance tyres shouldn't be stacked when stored, but 99% of part worn dealers I've visited do precisely that!

Why not? I do the same...

Is it any different if they are mounted to wheels?

moltuae 9th July 2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarg (Post 151533)
Michelin every time where available.

Unlike others, I wouldn't touch part worns, not for the only small patch of rubber between you and the road.

I'd also be put off by budget tyres if I was looking to buy a car, tells me the car has probably had corners cut in its maintenance

I'm the same. I'd skimp on food (if I had to) before I'd skimp on tyres. I always buy the best tyres available (with the emphasis on wet/dry stopping distance) and I replace both sets (summer/winter) every 2-3 years, or when the tread depth gets to about 5-6mm.

In everyday driving, cheap or worn tyres might feel comparable to new high-end tyres but if you need to take evasive action some day to avoid an accident, they're simply not going to provide equal performance. The difference in grip and stopping distances might equate to just a few metres, which will be practically unnoticeable in normal driving conditions, but when you need to take action to avoid an accident, every metre counts. I've had some very near-misses in my decades of driving and, on more than one occasion, just a minor difference in grip or stopping distance would certainly have resulted in a collision.

Admittedly, in my youth I did put budget tyres and part-worns on my old bangers, but those were different times, and the cars were so appallingly bad (by modern standards) that the tyres were the least of my worries. Something I do remember about those days of driving on part worn tyres (2mm-5mm) was how often they got punctures. I rarely ever get punctures now. It seems that a greater tread depth is less prone to picking up nails, which is another reason I prefer to change my tyres early.

Adrian E 9th July 2019 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne (Post 151536)
Why not? I do the same...

Is it any different if they are mounted to wheels?

It depends on the volume - a pile of 4 won't be a problem, in practice, whether mounted or unmounted. A pile of unmounted over 1.6m high is a bad idea from a manual handling point of view, at the very least. They're designed to take load vertically (in the main) so by the time you've created a large pile, the ones at the bottom have quite a significant load being placed on the sidewalls, plus there's a risk of injury from the whole lot toppling over. If fitted to wheels you wouldn't want to go anywhere near that height, although the wheel and air pressure will reduce the likelihood of tyre damage.

It's been a number of years since I was involved with the tyre trade industry bodies that were working on best practice guidance, but for storage it basically recommends storing part worns for sale in the same way new tyres are stored (ie in racks, sitting on the tread)

This is for commercial retail, don't forget, rather than what you do as an individual storing your own stuff. I have a pile of 4 wheels stacked on top of each other. I just inflate them to a fairly high pressure before storing long term.

irelandbuyer 12th July 2019 01:53 PM

Gents,

Many thanks for all the replies and opinions. Very helpful.

I decided in the end to go with Hankook Ventus S1 Evo 3.

The four were coming in between 120-200 cheaper than the other brands so happy enough with that as the saving will go towards a refurb on the 20' rims....

cheers,.....!!

Joe2.0E 12th July 2019 09:29 PM

Good choice if they’re as good or better than the Ventus S1 Evo 2.

irelandbuyer 16th July 2019 01:11 PM

Lads,

Went with the Hankook in the end.

The wheels were caked with brake dust so while they were off, i gave them an initial spray with Bilberry wheel cleaner, let that dwell for 10 minutes then hosed them down, followed by Iron-X. Couldn't believe the dirt that came off them.

Hit it with the hose, then Iron-X again, cleaned with a sponge, dried them and then applied wheel protectant wax.

Easy to do when in the tyre shop....

Thanks for all the good advice chaps...

ainarssems 20th July 2019 01:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ainarssems (Post 151530)
I now put Three A P606 on A6. So far so good, feel better than Continental I had on before, done about 1500 miles in 3 weeks good mix of all kinds of roads, mostly hard driving. So far does not seem to have excessive wear but too early to say.


I am having second thoughts about Three A P606. Accidentally hit one on kerb while reversing and got a nice big hole in sidewall. Did not even hit that hard and it was just a normal kerb, nothing sharp or armature sticking out. I have definitely hit other tyres in kerbs and potholes a lot harder but this is my first blowout. Now that I have tyre off the car I can see it wearing on the edges as well, both inside and outside but a bit more on outside. Checked other tyres and it is the same on others, more on front, less on the back. Also some graining on the outside, I guess they do not like hard cornering in this hot weather. I don't think they will last more than 10k. Second hand Michelins with 7-7.5mm at the comparable price to new P606 I got 20k miles on the same car and was still able to sell them on ebay, Continental second hand also 7-7.5mm about 18k miles but there was nothing left on them to be ale to sell.

Three A P606 do grip well and this blowout might be isolated incident or do to exact nature of hitting kerb but I think I would have been better off getting another second hand set of Michelins but I could not find anything good at decent price and was risking at running existing tyres below legal limit so resorted to quick and cheap option.

Put on a spare tyre, an ancient Dunlop SP Sport 9000, I am not sure how old it is, it's 40X where the manufacturing date would be so I guess it's older than 2000 and boy it does not have any grip at all in wet. ABS comes every time in wet I push brakes a bit harder and I cannot do right turns or go round the roundabouts at any decent speed in wet with the most of force on the left front tyre where this old Dunlop is.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1563631997

paulrstaylor 20th July 2019 04:52 PM

I had some budget tyres on the RS4 that were fitted by the previous owner, soft sidewalls was an understatement although they were XL stamped. One cut, one egged in the space of a couple of months and the only kerb action was going on and off the drive, so I suspect speed bumps maybe the cause.

Replaced all four with new Goodyear F1s, cost £100 per corner vs £60 for the budget, which is good value for money I think!

ainarssems 9th August 2019 01:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ainarssems (Post 151754)
I am having second thoughts about Three A P606. Accidentally hit one on kerb while reversing and got a nice big hole in sidewall. Did not even hit that hard and it was just a normal kerb, nothing sharp or armature sticking out. I have definitely hit other tyres in kerbs and potholes a lot harder but this is my first blowout. Now that I have tyre off the car I can see it wearing on the edges as well, both inside and outside but a bit more on outside. Checked other tyres and it is the same on others, more on front, less on the back. Also some graining on the outside, I guess they do not like hard cornering in this hot weather. I don't think they will last more than 10k. Second hand Michelins with 7-7.5mm at the comparable price to new P606 I got 20k miles on the same car and was still able to sell them on ebay, Continental second hand also 7-7.5mm about 18k miles but there was nothing left on them to be ale to sell.

Three A P606 do grip well and this blowout might be isolated incident or do to exact nature of hitting kerb but I think I would have been better off getting another second hand set of Michelins but I could not find anything good at decent price and was risking at running existing tyres below legal limit so resorted to quick and cheap option.

Put on a spare tyre, an ancient Dunlop SP Sport 9000, I am not sure how old it is, it's 40X where the manufacturing date would be so I guess it's older than 2000 and boy it does not have any grip at all in wet. ABS comes every time in wet I push brakes a bit harder and I cannot do right turns or go round the roundabouts at any decent speed in wet with the most of force on the left front tyre where this old Dunlop is.

Second sidewall failure in less than 2 months and 3.5k miles.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1565360551

snapdragon 9th August 2019 03:08 PM

Maybe worth bringing it up with VOSA.
They should be recalled when you think they can recall Peanuts because it doesn't say May contain nuts on the label.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-a...-safety-defect

ainarssems 9th August 2019 05:10 PM

Well the first one was at least partially my fault hitting the kerb, but I have hit other tyres a lot harder without any damage to tyres but have bent wheels and suspension, this time it was just a bit of scratch to the wheel. And these are the first 2 sidewall blowouts in my more than 20 year driving history.

Second one today I did not particularly hit anything, I was driving rather enthusiastically on gravel road, it did have some bumps and potholes but all smooth, no sharp edges. Got on the tarmac and it sounded a bit strange. Pulled over in the safe place after mile or so and tyre was almost flat. Could not see any major damage so hooked up compressor and started pumping in air, as the pressure got to 10 PSI I could hear air escaping and found the split. Not even a scratch to rim.

I have couple used sets lined up for tomorrow to go and have a look locally and to see if I can negotiate decent price as they are a bit more than I would like to pay. ContiSport 5 and Primacy 3. About the same price and normally I prefer Michelin but Contis are less age. Everything going well I should be on another set tomorrow and will have 3 tyres to put on ebay.

ainarssems 16th August 2019 05:55 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Have talked to many people and it seems it's a common thing that cheap tyres have sidewalls made of cheese.:(

All the second hand ones locally were not worth the price asked for them. There are much better deals to be had around Birmingham and Manchester but that's a bit far away to go just for tyres and don't have anything else to do that way so got a pair of brand new Michelin PS4 from Amazon through purse.io paying by Bitcoin. £132 for a pair of 225/45R17 for A6 delivered not too bad. They even smell better than other tyres. :ROFL:

Bought a bit more BTC during yesterdays dip and the price have gone up a bit today so it will make it even cheaper so might as well put in another order for pair.



http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1565977896

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1565977896

ainarssems 16th August 2019 06:18 PM

Also bought a pair of second hand PZero for S8 255/45R19 locally for £50 for pair. Allegedly only done 3k miles but looks more to me, made in 2017. Only changed front as they were on the limit due to me not swapping them around in time. A lot more grip than 7 year old GY Eagle F1. Now the front is planted when I go full throttle in the corner instead of just going straight before, a lot of fun as I can kick the rear out now with old GY still o the back (no ESP or TC on my S8) If my experience is anything to go by PZero will have just as little grip in 2 years time as I have found all premium tyres degrade and loose grip rapidly when they get 3-5 years old apart from Michelin.

ainarssems 30th August 2019 09:19 PM

Second pair of PS4 arrived to be fitted Saturday

ainarssems 30th August 2019 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapdragon (Post 152164)
Maybe worth bringing it up with VOSA.
They should be recalled when you think they can recall Peanuts because it doesn't say May contain nuts on the label.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-a...-safety-defect

Just had a recall at work because label saying contains 'Soya' was not in bold font :Confused::ROFL::Confused::tuttut:

ainarssems 6th September 2019 03:50 PM

I think I should have gone for 235/45R17 instead of 225/45R17, Michelin are very narrow and very big grooves which help to avoid aquaplaning but it's rather small contact area, still achieves impressive grip. And I could have used a bit higher sidewall for more ground clearance, keep hitting things with underside. :(

ainarssems 22nd September 2019 07:57 PM

It's great to be on Michelin PS4 on all corners on A6 after my little suspension arm misadventure that damaged tyre as well. So I guess it's good I did not change fronts for PS4 earlier as they have been standing at home for about 3 weeks.

I have been a long term user of second hand premium brands and Michelin have always been my favourite, mostly because they do not loose performance over old age like other top brands. They do loose some but less and more gradually.

Pirelli, Dunlop, Good Year are good when new but 3-4 years old performance just drops off the cliff, you start sliding around and as you are sliding they wear out quickly as well so it's good if you buy new and do a lot of miles but not great if you poodle along 2-3k miles per year.

Continental are a bit better with aging, the last I had from Continental was ContiSport 3 which were inferior to PS2 at the time, never heard anything about CS4, CS5 from what I heard was proper sh@t lot worse than CS3 but the latest CS6 is supposed to be top dog even better than PS4, I still sided with PS4 due to my past experience about ageing even if I do a lot more miles these days.

The grip on Three-A P606 was not bad but PS4 feel so much better in every way. I could go on and on about every way how PS4 is better, I can run them at lower pressure, get more grip, more comfort and more mileage. Last set of Michelin I bought second hand was 7-7.5mm, did 20k miles was still able to sell on ebay, CS3 bought about the same, did 18k miles, was nothing left to sell, was probably challenging the legality as they were very worn on sides.

Michelin tyres seem to bee a lot narrower and a bit higher for the same size so I wish I would have gone 235 wide instead of 225 so that's a consideration to make. It's a narrow tyre with very wide grooves and a little contact area, makes it good for resisting aquaplaning and amazingly still manages to get great grip

Nognar 22nd September 2019 09:11 PM

Recently fitted Goodyear Eagle F1s to the D2 QS and they are simply excellent.

Very quiet, comfortable and grip very well. All in an excellent and recommended comfortable tyre.

S8 has a new set of Avon ZZV5s all round as I wanted to try them, for the money they are good. Not in the Michelin/ Conti/ Goodyear bracket but perfectly decent for the money and similar to the Falkens I had on it before.

As for the A2, that has a set of Falken all seasons on it and they are perfectly decent for what they are. Good in the summer and amazing in the winter, especially with a little snow the A2 was unbeatable.


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