WITW - Mark's poorly Dolphin
 

Next up in the workshop is Mark's Dolphin Grey S8:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619814309

Its nice to have a Dolphin Grey in the workshop again while mine is still in winter storage. It feels 'comfortable' for some reason.

Why poorly though? This is the contents of the sump :(

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619814309

There is no oil in the coolant, so its not the oil cooler. Logically therefore its either a headgasket or a crack somewhere. Obvious we're hoping its just a gasket, but I'll be doing some pressure testing to find out once the engine is stripped down.

I'll start on removing the engine and gearbox tomorrow.

Ooooh another Dolphin. She looks lovely :love:

I’m trying to work out the user is on here?

Looking forward to this one as usual +++

Markiii - I'm sure he'll check in soon.

This one is another variant on the dolphin theme as it has blues interior with vavona, and light uppers, so we have at least three different combinations now. Well, four if you count my custom interior, but it was originally black and maple.

That's not pretty. :tuttut:
I recall Mark's thread a little while back where the opinion was probably "just" a failed oil cooler, but it sounds like it may be rather nastier..... :mad:

Best wishes for a speedy recovery as the saying goes!

yep tis mine, I'm crossing my fingers is nothing terminal

I really wasn't sure on the blue interior as I ha da 911 with blue leather and swore never again. But in the flesh I rather like it

And that particular wood trim really lifts it

Engine out today. It didn't start well as the main bumper bolts refused to come out so I had to take it off with the supports. I'm getting quite good at this now though since the last four I've done have been like this! I am running out of new bumper bolts though :rolleyes:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

The power steering fluid is past it's best so I'll change that.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

After the bumper, everything else came off just fine - no other seized bolts and it all went really well :) Front panel off:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Oh, well apart from this

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

At some point in the past there has been an issue with two of the connectors in the electronics box and someone has made a really nice job of splicing the body harness to the engine harness. Unfortunately, the engine harness must come out with the engine - its nigh impossible to get it off with the engine in and completely impossible to refit it like that, so I had to cut these apart :(

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

I'll fix this later with some original connectors.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Everything on top disconnected, so on to the underside

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Strap the suspension up so it doesn't destroy the upper arms when the lower arms are removed from the subframe

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

The spring on this exhaust bracket is awol for some reason. I have spares though.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

I could tell the gearbox had been out in the past as this heat shield is loose. For some reason, every single 8 I work on which has had the gearbox out has this particular stud broken off. I've never taken the gearbox out with the engine in place so I haven't discovered why this is so.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

This is interesting on the gearbox. New OE replacement perhaps rather than a rebuild?

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

All the coolant hoses are distended so will need to be replaced. This one is especially bad

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

A pile of tools, as is tradition

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Which allowed me to assemble this pile of bits

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Engine out. 6 hours in total which is pretty good. Apart from the bumper and the wiring harness, everything behaved itself which is a pleasant departure from recent projects!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619901795

Before I removed the engine I opened the sump plug again, and was rewarded with 3/4 of a litre of clean coolant, then a cupful of the brown slime, so the coolant is leaking in while it is just sitting there. That means whatever is causing it should be relatively straightforward to find.

I'll split the engine and box tomorrow and then strip the engine.

blimey never seen a coolant line like that before, what causes that?

Just age I think. Its getting to be an increasingly common problem.

Is it possible to change that particular line whilst the engine is still in the car?

Might be possible, but very difficult. It might be necessary to go in from the wheel arch. The water pipe which runs along the side of the head has to come off to get the hose out, and thats very tricky with the engine in.

Started stripping the engine today. The knock sensors are so disintegrated that half the plug stayed in the socket.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

The exhaust manifold bolts were just rusty stumps so an F125 would not have been fun on this one! I hammered an 11mm socket on to them and just snapped them off since they'll be replaced anyway.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

On to the starter motor - the braided cable from the solenoid to the motor is normally covered in silicone sleeve, but this is completely burned off! Mark mentioned that the car once failed to start and emitted some smoke from the driver's side wheel well. I had thought that was the starter junction, but thats still intact so it must have been this cable overheating for some reason

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

The silicone has just crumbled away - never seen this before

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

Never seen this before either! :eek3: I'm guessing this would be why it didn't start on that occasion, and this loose chunk of starter has been rattling about in the bellhousing. This might also explain the rattle on startup :rolleyes:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

Little bits of the starter in the bellhousing

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

A fair few chunks knocked out of the flywheel teeth too

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

There they are stuck to the speed sensor

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

The bank 2 exhaust manifold did a wee on the floor. The SAI valve on this side was also full of water. This unfortunately suggests a cracked head :-(

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

Engine on the stand

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

Noticed this little time-bomb after taking the timing gear off - this pin is quite loose and eventually would have fallen off and in to the timing belt! Really it needs some blue loctite like all the other bolts inside the timing covers

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

I dropped the sump with the engine the right way up, rather than flipping it over, since I didn't want any of this gunge to drain in to the engine any more than it already had.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1619968020

Short day today because of the F1 and family stuff. I'll dismantle the rest tomorrow, including the exhaust manifolds and upper sump and then make a start on pressure testing.

blimey trust a car of mine to fail in new and unseen ways:ROFL:

I'm really not sure if i should feel unlucky.............

or lucky that none of the things you've found so far killed anything:Confused:

Yes, it happens to us all too.....:ROFL:

The swelling around the middle, that's partly Covid related rather than age! :ROFL:

Back to the car though... is there anything in the service history to suggest these problems? I service mine fairly regularly even though I don't do many miles.

Every time I look at it, I find it astounding that the broken piece of starter didn't get jammed up in the flywheel and punch a hole through the gearbox casing.

I can't fathom how it happened in the first place, let along how it didn't take anything much larger out with it. Possibly it was dropped when the gearbox was changed, but based on the exhaust manifold bolts that must have been well over a decade ago. Possibly a crack started which very slowly propagated until the day it failed completely?

The water from the exhaust manifold is somewhat less lucky though.

Is it possible something jammed up making it so hard to start that the starter pulled a huge amount of juice, thus frying the insulation and fracturing the starter motor?

Are you expecting bearing carnage when the cam covers come off, or does it appear to have been lubricating OK despite the emulsion in the sump?!

You could stall the starter on the gear without putting a fracturing load on the casing though. Even if the bearing in the nose seized and stalled it, that wouldn't break the end off.

I think that day it wouldn't start was when the crack finally let go, the nose broke off, and it twisted the bearing such that the spindle couldn't turn. The stalled starter took enough current to fry the insulation, but when you let off the key it un-jammed itself. Possibly the broken piece fell off at that point and then it was able to start. The bearing does still turn now, although it is slightly distorted.

The starter came out without that piece attached at all - it was just sitting in the gearbox bellhousing, so it fell off through action of the starter at some point. Its pretty hard to tell where anything started though as its been bashed around by the flywheel.

Cautiously optimistic the bearings have survived as its only done a couple of hundred miles like this and it still turns over by hand just fine with no unpleasant noises.

A slightly delayed update from Monday as I needed to talk to Mark about what I found before posting it, and then I was ill for the rest of the week :o

The engine has been steam cleaned on the inside! It turns out this mayonnaise is quite a good detergent.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

The cam bearing journals are still perfect so no bearing damage +++

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

At this point I built a pressure testing rig which was derived from my radiator pressure tester. I hooked up a header tank and either looped or blocked off the various water pipes, vacuum filled it, and then pressurised it to 1 bar.

This was the result :-( There is a crack in #7 exhaust port.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

The water pools up in the port when the valves are shut, and drips out of the inlet manifold

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

When the valves open it pours in to the cylinder and sits on top of the piston

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

The water in the sump is from the water seeping past the piston rings

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620502211

So, the left (bank 2) cylinder head is toast, and used heads are pretty much unobtanium. It might be possible to find the crack and weld it, but it would be contaminated with water and soot so welding would be extremely difficult, and not economically viable. Having discussed with Mark we decided the best way ahead is a replacement engine.

Having made a shopping list and ordered a bunch of parts, I wanted a better look at the broken engine to see if it is saveable, should a head turn up in the future. Also, we wanted to see if the cam chain tensioners were still good, as I know the ones on the replacement engine are not.

Bank 2 tensioner removed - this crud in the oilway is what destroys the filter gauze which then kills the tensioner. I've never seen this much before though. I think this is gunge from the mayonnaise detergent effect cleaning everything out

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Amazingly the gauze has survived!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Alas the bank 1 gauze and consequently tensioner has not survived. No idea why its always bank 1 that goes first.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The start pin still locks, but the non-return valve doesn't close fully so this will make a very brief rattle on startup, but not frightening clatter that the start pin causes.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The creamy slime drips out of every oil way

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Well, you can tell which cylinder was ingesting water :rolleyes: Its spotless!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The head has been cleaned too

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The cylinder wall is perfect though - I feared the water may have washed any lubrication off the bore and caused it to be scored by the rings but it has survived, meaning the engine is definitely saveable in the future +++

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

A slight stain on the cylinder wall from where the water has been dripping in, but there's no damage to the surface. Its just discolouration.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

#8

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

#6

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

I started stripping the engine to clean it up. I want to get as much of the emulsion out as possible before storing it so it doesn't end up separating and leaving the engine full of moisture.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Not too bad under the valley cover

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The oil retention valves are pretty nasty though. I don't want to retain any of this!

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

The upper sump is pretty dirty too - all the usual carbon deposits have been loosened up

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Very clean in the block though - all the carbon deposits have been washed off in to the sump. Just lots of the emulsion hanging about.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

Cleaned with carb cleaner. Once I've got as much slime out as I can I will spray the inside with oil to keep it clean until I find a head for it.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

I tipped the engine on its side with the remaining head down, with the cams removed, so the gunge can drip out under gravity overnight.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1620503556

looks surprisingly good in there all things considered.

makes me wonder if a steam clean isn't a good idea:ROFL:

These heads of no use?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-A....m46890.l49286

They might work, but I'm suspicious why there are no cam chains on them and why the tensioners appear to have been removed. They may well be an equal can of worms, and tbh after shipping and gaskets etc its about even to just get a known-good replacement engine.

I'm sooooo glad I removed my tensioner filters now even though I change the oil every 5k

so is removing them a good idea?

Yes, I take them out now, on the basis that its less bad to have that gunge go through the tensioner than stainless steel mesh.

A tad behind with updates on this sorry. Its taken a little while to work out what to do engine-wise. In the meantime, I tidied up the broken one, since it would go back together when a head turned up.

I cleaned up the block ready to put the lower sump back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

For those who may be curious, this is where the crank locking pin goes.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

Lower sump back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

Metal oil cooler pipe

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

I flushed the oil cooler with brake cleaner until no more slime came out, then put it back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

Cleaned up the mounting face on the block ready for when a head turns up

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

I'd removed the oil retention valves while the engine was upside down to let the slime drain out. Cleaned them up and put them back in.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

The breather plate is a; really expensive and b; back-ordered so I cleaned it and re-sealed it using the same silicone as used on the sump.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

Ready for a replacement head.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621454406

Having failed to find a head, I acquired a replacement engine. Of course, as soon as the engine was on a pallet heading Southwest, I also found a head :rolleyes: So now I have a spare engine (yay) and Mark's engine is going back together and back in the car +++

I put the cams and tensioner back in the good head

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

New oil seals

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

This head all done

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

This is the replacement head. The inlet valves are fine, but the exhaust valves are leaking slightly so they'll need to be lapped in. This bar is the roller which the rocker arms sit on.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

The rockers need to come out to get easy access to the valves

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

The exhaust valve seats are a little crusty

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

This is why the head was taken off - the other side suffered a timing incident and exploded. This side ate a small bit of debris and just dinged the head slightly but its still perfectly usable.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

Crusty valves too

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

Much better

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

2 done, 6 to go

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621455455

More great progress. I’m glad the engine is salvageable with the replacement head +++

I’m sure there will be a D2 passing through the unit at some point that will utilise that spare engine :D

I'm curious MJ, when you remove the tensioner gauze filter. do you bin the whole thing or just cut out the gauze leaving the surround?

Bin the whole thing. The gasket under the tensioner provides the seal, rather than the surround of the gauze. That actually sits slightly flush with the mounting surface of the tensioner.

A lot of work for only three pictures. I finished lapping the valves, fitted new valve stem oil seals, refitted the springs, and refitted the roller rockers

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621542263

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621542263

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621542263

Ready to go back on tomorrow +++ I'll put the cams and tensioner back in once its on the engine since it won't move around like it can on the bench.

I've often come across people who are experts at a particular job or task but never anyone that can improve design, manufactor ,dismantle,Refurbish and everything else with such easy and commitment
Great work, a delight to see and read about it

I have a suspicion it's not as easy as she makes it look+++

Never having been that deep in an engine what are the vertical cylinders in the middle?

Housings for the spark plugs

doh of course they are. they look so big from that angle

Lots of inter-dependent things all happened together today. The headgasket and bolts arrived so I could put the head back on, and the sump came back from powdercoating so I can put that back on too.

New gasket:

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Head back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Cams back in now. Bank 1's cams are easy as they're not opening any valves so they can both go in together easily. Bank 2 is much harder as the exhaust and inlet cams are both partially opening valves and they want to escape in different directions.

To counter that, I put the exhaust cam in first, in a position where it's not trying to open anything.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

You can see how it's a bit forward of where it should be...

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

...especially when the timing bar is attached. This is where it will jump to if the bar is removed without a belt fitted.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Pulled it back with the bar and attached it to the other side

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

This put the notch in the right place so I could time the two cams together

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

15 chain rollers to the notch on the other cam

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

This is the gasket for the tensioner - you can see the raised section which provides the seal around the oil feed to the tensioner

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Inlet cam in place. Once the two cams are timed properly with the chain, I'll let the exhaust cam pull forward again by 45 degrees which also puts the inlet cam in a position where it's not trying to rotate and so makes it much easier to clamp down

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Cams fully fitted and all the caps torqued down

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

New exhaust gasket

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Manifold and cam cover back on and this side is done too.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Now the heads are on I can flip the engine over and prime the oil system. I poured fresh oil straight in to the oil pump pickup and spun it by hand until the oil filter housing started filling up.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

New filter and more oil pumped through almost to the 'top' and then put the cover back on. This will minimise the amount of time the engine has to spin before getting oil pressure back in to all the cam and crank journals from which I've allowed the slime to escape. The cams are all sitting on assembly lube, but even so I don't want to have to push a litre of oil in to the pump and filter before it gets to the cams.

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Sump baffle and pump pickup back in place, and silicone sealant on the sump flange

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

Freshly powdercoated sump back on

http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachmen...1&d=1621629675

This will sit overnight so the silicone can cure, then I can flip it over in the morning and carry on. Yes, the oil will drop out of the pump pickup tube when its turned back over, but there is now oil on the filter side of the pump so the pump will prime very quickly when needed.