Baremetal respray
 

I'm likely opening myself up to a world of pain, not least from my fellows on this very forum, but I am thinking hard about sending the D2 for a full back to metal respray.

Last weekend was the first time I've really had a go at the paintwork with a DA and much elbow grease. Unfortunately I've found quite a lot of, in my opinion, poorly repsrpayed panels. The bonnet in particular is really orange peely.

Ballpark figure I'm looking at for this is about £10k - not worried about the painting itself, the guy I know has the same levels of OCD I do, and is very well known as a top rate painter, hence the price, but I am more worried about being able to replace bits of trim and clips - I'm thinking milky aluminium trim, glass and sunroof surrounds, etc

Car appears to be good mechanically, has just had an oil service (and the diaphragm honking has disappeared), and is booked in at Mackies first week of June for a gearbox service.

Interior could do with some work, but that will come next after the exterior.

And I am going to get pelters for a slight colour change - am staying with black, but thinking of having a different colour metallic fleck, maybe amethyst, maybe cherry. Have a finish something like these in mind: https://youtu.be/mobBb9WeHLI?t=516

If I go ahead, I expect to have the best D2 paintwork in the country, non-OEM colour aside - did Audi ever offer custom exclusive paints on the D2, and if so, does anyone have any links?

Apologies in advance :eek2:

Given that its a real Final Edition, and there are fewer than 20 of those left, I think you'll significantly devalue it by changing the colour since that is part of what makes it an FE. There were two blacks used on the FE - Ebony Black Pearl which is what yours is I think, and then a solid black (Brilliant Black?) which is what Stephen's is. If you want something funky then it would make more sense (to me at least) to start with an ordinary S8, not an FE. Or use a spray-wrap in whatever colour you like?

Audi did offer Exclusive colours on the D2. There aren't many Exclusive D2s in the UK but they do exist.

In terms of dismantling it:

The brightwork around the roof is simple enough, as is the rear quarter. The doors would need fully dismantling to get the trim at the base of the glass off - that is very challenging to get off without bending it.

Windscreen trim and rear screen trim can be prised off without damaging them which is nerve-wracking but not too bad. The screens won't come out intact. Fronts are available aftermarket. I don't know about the rear though - I'd be inclined to leave that in, although if the trim clips are rusty it has to come out to replace those.

The interior pillar trims all need to come out to get the B-pillar trim and rear quarter glass out, which also need all the lower sill trims out, which means the rear seat has to come out.

The sunroof panel would need to come out so the seal can be removed, then mask off the hole (extremely well!) and paint the panel separately. By this point its probably prudent to remove the front seats as well to avoid any risk of overspray.

The plastic trim at the base of the boot opening is very fragile and NLA so extreme care is needed removing the rivets from that so as not to shatter it.

The 'S8' plastic sill trims don't come off intact and are NLA. They are glued on with VHB tape which by now is stronger than the plastic. There's an extremely high risk of irreparable damage here if you want to paint the door shuts. The various stickers are also mostly NLA.

A limited number of trims and clips are still available from Tradition, but there is no guarantee of finding something if it gets broken or damaged. The aluminium trims are pretty much limited to good used parts at this point.

Ah...a 3am in the morning post...I wonder if you're already reconsidered this (mad?) idea?

Aaaanyway...I'm with Michaela on this - don't do it, you'll devalue your D2 :tuttut:

...and she's also right on my S8 colour, which is an - allegedly unique - "brilliant black" ;).

Unlike your signature then! :tuttut: +++

:eek:

When's the last time timing belt was done on it?
Have you had the rear subframe done? They all look like titanic by now. That's what I would be looking at with 10k to spend first

Out of curiosity, I dug out some photos from the 2017 annual meet to see if I could tell the difference. Taken at a slightly different angle, but within one minute of each other. Best I can do is confirm they are both black!

"Allegedly" ;)

"Allegedly" ;) ...though I should probably update that :rolleyes:

I know that Mark had the rear subframe was done quite recently as well as gearbox rebuild at Mackie’s. He treated it the car very well, so I’m sure that the timing belt would have been done as required.

But the bare metal respray is a daft idea! A top class ‘paint correction’ would be a better bet IMHO.

The first thing I am looking at paint correction and wet sanding, but if that does not bring the paintwork up to my satisfaction, then it will be repainted.

3:30am posts - I'm just a night owl, nothing more to it :tuttut:

I don't agree at all that a top quality repaint will devalue the car, not that it makes any difference as I've no intention of selling. I will also look into wrapping, if necessary, but in my opinion that would devalue the car as you just don't know what then lurks beneath.

I assume nobody has a problem if the respray is OEM colour? Would it be sacrilege if I had a little more metallic fleck added?

I am also going to investigate whether or not the aluminium trims can be recreated, or refurbished somehow.

The gearbox rebuild was a while back now, 10/2016 at 115437 miles, so the warranty has expired. Mackies serviced it 10/2017 and 10/2018 (following a leak 08/2018 which needed recovery to a local transmission specialist and sump gasket replacement). No invoices for gearbox since, hence booking made at Mackies for June 2022.

Front & rear shocks, brakes, all front arms and bushes were done 03/2015

Biggest mechanical concern at the moment is the steering rack, as I still feel there's something not quite right, like a grinding feedback through the wheel sometimes, but if that is needed, that will get replaced too. PAS pipes (some at least) were replaced 04/2016, PAS pump was replaced 02/2018

Timing belt was 09/2016 at 115,118 miles (now at 136k) but maybe worth having this done again as it'll be 6 years this year, thoughts? I've just found anotehr invoice for a timing belt replacement 11/2017 at 119k - why would Mark have had this done again a 2nd time so soon?

Rear subframe and bushes was done 12/2018

The bonnet respray was done 08/2019, by the same garage Mark was using for maintenance, which might explain the poor quality paintwork

Front suspension arms & tracking 02/2019

Front brakes done again 11/2019 along with nsr caliper and paint all calipers

For clarity, the budget for the rest of the car's need is not impacted at all by anything I spend on sorting out the metalwork. I'd been saving for a 2nd weekend toy and have, probably, decided instead to use that money towards bringing this car up to close to 'concours' standard

Which will include some interior alterations too, sorry purists ;)

I'm smitten with Michaela's red - black interior combo. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do and whatever you go with I'm sure it will turn out well and add to your enjoyment of the car.

Paint correction / wet sanding would be a first best bet to get the car to an acceptable standard. The transformation of the paintwork on the Barn Find MJ is currently working on looks to be stunning. Then throw the money at mechanicals and other interior toys you feel you need.

https://fiftyfivedetails.com/wet-sanding

Looking at the FE's that some of the chaps on the forum have they all had some modification, albeit mainly subtle internal enhancements. I would agree with MJ as there are specific items to the FE which make it an FE (Paint, Interior Colours/trim adaption, Alloys) but if you are going to keep and never sell, then that consideration is for you and you alone. If you do change the paintwork and maybe want to sell in the future you could state "used to be FE spec, but now enhanced" and see how that goes:ROFL:

Just remember the membership to the FE club may be revoked!

A good while back I had a 1977 Ford Escort RS2000 in signal green that I planned to change the colour as I hated it. I am glad I was talked out of it when selling though! Had to be original paint, original wheels, original engine all the way. I put a 5 speed box in from a Capri 280 and had to change it back to the std 4 speed to get what was then 'top dollar' for it!

I thought there was only one black for an FE? Ebony black?

I believe there is a record of FE's in the UK indicating specification and their current status. I wonder if the record also notes the enhancements made?

Then again, what do I know!:Confused:

Officially there is. Stephen's is a unicorn as far as I know.

Neil has very comprehensive details of all identified FEs including current whereabouts in most cases.

'Mine' was probably the most modded in an 'OEM+' way, as it came to me with RNS-E and Audi bluetooth already fitted, along with the Milltek exhaust. I subsequently upgraded the TV reception to digital, added the radio clock module, changed the marked purple painted door trims for 'wood' that vaguely matches the centre console (although I never did manage to track down a matching lower handle trim for the driver's door)

I never received the original nav etc parts, but anything I did myself I kept all the original bits (carefully wrapped) and passed them to the new owner. Along with a complete kit for a solar sunroof retrofit that I never got around to doing. So basically a lot of it could be undone for a purist, if they wanted.

I was never at any point aware of just how rare FEs are, but in my case the OEM+ bits were part of the appeal when I saw the car so it never put me off and clearly the chap who bought it was similarly happy with the changes.

I went to see my paint man yesterday and talked through the difficulties with unobtainable trims and clips, he was having similar issues with a similar aged RS4 in his workshop.

He wants to try the correction route first, is not keen on repainting at all, reckoned it would be 300 hours or so, which would amount to about £15k, not £10k. That is still a possibility but not until we've tried correction first and collected enough parts to replace. At this stage, if we do repaint, it'll be in the OEM black plus a little more metallic fleck mixed in as I what it to 'pop' a bit more.

I asked him about getting the aluminium trims remanufactured. It was a maybe, but it'd need to be at least 20 sets, which I said probably wouldn't be a problem, there'd be plenty of buyers for them from here :ROFL: But I suspect MJ is already investigating this. He did not think he could do anything do improve them with a polisher, indeed that it might make them worse - he doesn't want to touch the mirror caps either.

He will sort out a couple of marks and dings while it is with him.

He does a lot of work on Porsches, said he has no issues at all obtaining parts for them and suggested I should use the budget towards a 911 purchase :rolleyes:

I'm also going to get the alloys refinished in the OEM colour. They are in perfect shape, just the wrong colour (and I'm not fond of it). They will be going to same place that did a fabulous job with my M4 wheels a year or two back, really really good re-diamond cut. I've mentioned that nobody has yet managed to reproduce the OEM finish exactly, he accepted the challenge.

MJ - I think you have been doing some research on FE wheel colour, are you able to share any of it?

Oh, the flipping diaphragm starting honking again, so will get a new one ordered

If the aluminium trim is still smooth and shiny then it can usually be brought back to 80% with some heavy cut compound and a microfibre or wool pad, and then refined to 85-90% with your metal polish of choice. It takes a bunch of passes, and something like an iBrid Nano, or the Sealey mini polisher is perfect. Treating with wax further enhances the shine as it fills in the pores in the anodising, but obviously that needs more maintenance than ceramic. I haven't tried ceramic coating the trim yet - thats on my list, ideally before the barnfind goes in for coating.

If the trim is matt and rough to the touch it won't recover and needs replacing. In those cases, send them to me so I can blast and powdercoat them gloss black :D

It turns out quite a lot of the trim is still available on Tradition, although not quite all of it. I haven't checked prices though.

The same applies to the mirrors by the way - you can go hard on them with any kind of compound you like. Just don't go near them with any kind of sandpaper as that will permanently change the finish and won't be recoverable. The mirror base which attaches to the door responds well to plastic polish and sealant.

Re the wheels, your wheel guy will regret accepting that challenge about halfway through the first wheel :ROFL: The factory finish is painted barrels and inner spokes, raw blasted details between the spokes, and a semi-polish on the front face (*not diamond cut). It must have been a crazy complicated process, and the only way we can think of to replicate it is to 3d print some inserts to go between the spokes to mask off the sandblasted detail while painting the barrels, then machine polish the front of the spokes, then lacquer the whole thing. We think the factory must have had some sort of moulded insert to fillin the spokes, hence printing new versions, because masking all that detail by hand is practically impossible. Even with moulded inserts its going to be quite a labour-intensive process.

One thing to be aware of is that many of these wheels have been diamond cut several times and now don't have enough metal left to do it again without losing the detail. Add the damage from any corrosion and it may not even be possible to recover them to original since the base wheel isn't up to it. Problem is, you won't find that until you strip them. I have a few in that state.

The original colour is Avus Silver Z17 - not available in powdercoat, so I generally have wheels wet painted in Avus and then powder lacquer. On an FE wheel that actually doesn't matter since its only the edges of the spokes and the inners which are painted, so any fairly flat silver will do. You'll never be able to tell if its not quite Avus.

I totally missed this...Very curious.. .. Out of interest, how do know Stephens is Brilliant black ? Audi confirmed, or is it actually on the build sticker for once ?

oh.

p.s. I agree on leaving the paint original colour, and preferably original too +++

Confirmed by TPS after an enquiry to the factory. I spotted it when I had Jim's & Stephen's next to each other at the workshop, and then had to look it up.

Subsequently when Neil was doing the research in to all the known FEs we realised that Stephen's is in fact the only known example in Brilliant Black, with all the others Ebony Pearl.

Interesting..... Seems like a case of a sales order being screwed up somewhere in the process, bit like the wide ranging interior enhanced leather packs.

100% agree. It is totally impossible to perfectly recreate the original FE 20" finish, which I found out when I had Pristine Wheels in MK (now closed :-() re-do mine. I asked them about shot-blasting, but it was not option, and diamond cutting again - without very good protection on top - leaves the wheels very susceptible to pitting and corrosion. So I'm glad I have my new Tradition set as backups +++

I agree - he is Brilliant (and) Black +++++++++