I may now know why I have been suffering from headaches recently.......
 

......so finally got the cam belt done........great now runs soooo much better and with no more rattling going on under the bonnet!:D...........BUT just before I dropped the car in to the garage yesterday noticed a bit of smoke coming through the front air vents......strange I thought, maybe (due to the rather bizarre weather we had been having) that is was condensation coming off the aircon that was running......no obvious smell etc (well I say that but apparently my wife could smell something but as a smoker had no clue :o).

Anyway didn't think much about it and knew it was going into the garage anyway and had asked them to give it a once over etc while doing cam belt (and leak on oil transfer box)......so arrive at garage and yup, they can smell the 8 (oil transfer box of course, isn't it), so no problemo, that is until the wrong part was ordered by the local audi dealer which they didn't notice until they were about to start (thankfully before they pulled the car apart though), but no problem as I could pick the car up and part will arrive Friday and hey presto back in and done and ready for lunchtime, great :D. That is until I take a long drive home tonight (relatively speaking this is Jersey and its only 9x5 miles!) to enjoy the new found smoothness and refinement of my lovely engine when after 10 mins I was nearly gassed out:Confused:. popped bonnet and it appears to be exhaust fumes rather than anything burning off the engine area (i.e split oil or anything) and mainly from just underneath the back of the engine cover right in front of where all the vents are etc that suck air into the car..........................my question is I'm £500 down on parts, another £350 on labour, still another £200 to go, have ordered a set of new wheels and I'm about to dish out a load more cash sorting an IPOD connection etc out (just posted another thread on this challenge!) so am seriously SKINT and after all this TLC and cash being thrown at it the bloody thing it has actually been trying and kill me by carbon dioxide poisoning..........

PLEASE, PLEASE, can anyone tell me what the F*** is wrong with it and how much is this going to cost.......:mad:

(if this sort of behaviour continues it won't be getting the "special time" clay followed by polish, long rub down and then buff I promised it this weekend thats for sure!:tuttut:)

Oh dear, sorry to hear about your woes.

Is it definitely exhaust fumes? I would say a manifold leak if you are sure it is, but you would hear it. Could be a crank case breather pipe (nasty oil fumes), or even a rocker gasket.

With the best will in the world, it is very difficult to diagnose on an internet forum - I'd get the car back to the garage and get them to have a look for you.

I'm afraid it is a case of expensive car (when new), and big running costs - no matter the age. This is why so many of these end up on the scrapper :(

Keep us posted on how you get on +++

The 2 most likely problems are the camshaft cover gaskets (many have had issues with them) or breather hose leaking (Ditto). To tell, when the engine is cold put your hand down the back of the offending head after the covers are off and check the state of cleanliness. Oil from the camshaft covers leaks down onto the exhaust and gives of an orrible smell.

With the breather hoses you get less oil and also it causaes other issues.

Have your mechanic check those first.

[quote=jayzee;14265]Is it definitely exhaust fumes? I would say a manifold leak if you are sure it is, but you would hear it.

Sorry to be ignorant, but when you say I would 'hear it' what sound am I looking for? I know I had a rattle before the cam belt was changed, but as I have only had the car a few weeks (and assuming its always made a noise) I'm not sure what it supposed to sound like.:Confused:

It does smell more like exhaust fumes but could well be burning oil? What i do know is after I have been putting my foot down is VERY smokey i.e. you can clearly see clouds of smoke pouring out even with the bonnet shut:(

Its going to go back in the garage Friday bt wanted to give them a heads up in case I needed parts ordered (joy of Jersey is almost everything has to be ordered in and I need the car for a wedding on the weekend)

It would be a minor ticking sound if it were the manifold, but don't confuse this with the injectors which is normal.

More noticeable when cold as the manifold expands with heat.

I would go with Conan on this, as his suggestions are known ones - especially the cam covers, which could possibly be the issue from what you have described.

My experiences are with non Audi group cars :D

ah haaa.......so checked for oil (nope - no obvious wet patches), next checked breather hose (or think I did, could have been looking at the wrong thing!).....anyway whatever I was looking at seemed fine as well. So started engine from cold and yes can hear a 'ticking' that does not appear to be quite right.......to be certain went for a blast again and hey presto, can't breathe again (but feel strangely relaxed and all is good with the world:ROFL:).......get home pop bonnet and the ticking is not really as obvious now car has warmed up and doing a very convincing impression of my BBQ after several beers and a 'forgotten' pack of sausages.

I'll get the garage to check EVERYTHING but am pretty ceratin its the manifold as the smell is like sticking you face near the exhausts and taking a nice big deep breath.........not entirely happy but feel better now it seems clear the manifold is the most likly problem.

Appreciate the help very much from you both in helping me narrow down the potential causes +++................right off to empty the kids piggy banks while they sleep to pay for this ;)

Do you mean its smoking quite a lot? (i.e. said sausages are burnt - lol) as a leaking manifold wont really emit a great deal of smoke - i would be surprised if it was noticeable to be honest.

When you go to the garage done tell them what it wrong - if the diagnosis is free let them have a go first - if they come back with a valid idea that you hadnt thought of then thats cool, but if they come back with a load of rubbish you can then point them in the right direction.

The danger is if you tell them to 'fix a leaking manifold' and like good little boys they go off and remove it, replace the gaskets and clean the surfaces and re-assemble it only to find it doesnt solve it, then thats your problem. but if they diagnose it as a leaking manifold and they remove and re-seal it to find its not fixed then thats their mis-dianosis, which is there problem, and therefore should be favourable on the pocket....

I never tell them what to do - Im able enough to diagnose it (plenty of time spannering on old cars, new cars, and racing cars) but dont have the time to DIY the fix, so i get garages to do the work, but be sure to never tell them what to do as it can backfire.

P.s. Love the car, the colour really suits the '8, and i think it even looks great on the 18" Avus's!

Thanks for this, very good advice.

- yup diagnosis is free, so your right, I shouldn't say what I 'think' it is as they probably will just be lazy and go off fix something that isn't broken!

I'll tell them to take the car for a blast so they can see for themselves. And ohhh yes I'm mean REALLY smoking - but only when pushed hard, otherwise is not very notieable at all.

I really like the colour too (LY7Q) - has a nice pearlescent quality to it that changes with the light, so when really sunny looks more silver and when not (so most of the time!) looks more almost dolphin grey. I kind of like the Avus as well, but really wanted to fill the acrches out more so have just ordered a set of 19x9.5J wheels for it. (wanted 20's but just too expensive for my pocket at the moment!), hoping they look the business as the offset is 35 so may not even need any spacers.

Have to say I do LOVE black cars though - most of my other cars have always been black - I think its the best colour for a high end motor, but god it can be a real pain to keep looking good!

okay - so apparently problem identified, they assured me they went through everything and they only issue they could find was both cats are covered in oil coming from the transfer box (which it was booked to do anyway). They have changed the seal, which was absolutely destroyed, and cleaned cats up so lets see, hopefully its all good now.

Excellent +++

Remember that depending on how well they cleaned the cats, you will still smell oil for some time to come.

It will eventually go away, and will not be anywhere near as bad in the mean time until it does.

.....losing my sense of humour
 

okay so the oil trf box leak was sorted and just expected a few days for the oil to burn off the cats and all would be good.................but life just isn't that simple. Turns out I have discoved ANOTHER leak, not sure if it was doing it before or just bad timing but the damn sump gasket is gone and is merrily pumping oil all over the cats again.:(

To make matters worse its another cheap part but the cats etc have to be dropped off the car again (basically re-run of getting to the trf box) so I'm looking at another £400 in labour.:mad: (the garage swears they didn't see any leak from the sump as they assured me they double checked everything - as I asked them too)

To cheer myself up and try and get the 8 to stop misbehaving I clayed (first experience of using clay and have to say it makes a BIG difference) and re-polished it this weekend, so whilst in smells horrible it looks great (whilst stationary, otherwise its obscured in a cloud of smoke!)

Surely the garage has to take some responsibility as they really should have seen the other gasket leak at the same time,especially as you specifically asked them to look for any other issues?

Also you say another £400 - is that how much they charged you just for the output flange seal? if it is then it sounds extremely expensive to me. . . the part would be approx £117 from memory of mine and no more than 2 hours labour :Confused:

Hope you get it sorted anyways, and start to enjoy the S8 fully :D

When you say sump, which sump do you mean? The gearbox sump pan can be removed without removing the cats; see here for the process.

If that is the sump you are talking about you might as well have the filter and ATF changed as they are going to have to drop the ATF to get the sump off.

The engine sump is easy to remove without special tools.

A full ATF and filter change should cost no more than £180.

Ummagumma! Your cars obscured by clouds. Don't let the animals meddle with it or they'll drive you to the wall.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. Twas a Momentary lapse of reason.

I think there's some sound advice in the preceding threads. They should have noticed. That's their job. That's what they take your money for.

That's a collection of great dance songs :D. You're really on the Pulse there

I could get Division Bell in anywhere :ROFL:

the saga continues.....
 

Okay so had a rather heated exchange on the price they charged for the trf box seal AND the fact the sump gasket was F****D but they didn't notice.

Eventually came to a gentleman's agreement that they wouldn't charge for the labour on the sump. (he assured me getting the l/h cat off to get at the trf box was a real pain - ended up taking the wheel liner out apparently???:Confused:).

So I pick the 8 up again and all is well with the world.........for about 15mins as the engine management light comes on whilst driving home. Next morning its off, then on, then off, then on (you get the picture) and is running rather 'lumpy'. Phone garage and they said bring it in so they can stick it on VAGCOM, but make sure the light is 'on' when I do otherwise it won't detect the fault. Anyway turns out every time I plan to drop past the garage the light goes off - its as if it knows I'm taking it back and is so scared it pretends to 'fix' itself! Finally, manage to get the car in this morning and guess what, VAGCOM says:

1. Coolant sensor reading abnormal - intermittent fault
2. Misfire on 2
3. Misfire on 4

FFS this is starting to get a bit much now and even second guessing buying the car (but I do still love it sooo much, just wish it would bloody well work for more than 2 days without a problem!)

Even worse I have precisely ZERO options in terms of garages - £65 p/h at the only independent for Audi OR £130 p/h (and equal incompetence) at the ONLY dealer..................:mad:

You really don't have to take the Cat off to get the sump off. The wheel arch liner dosn't need to come off to take out the cat either!

Also, and I may be wrong. The light shouldn't have to be on should it? Doesn't the ecu just log the fault and it stays there untill cleared?

I will second this, they did my 2002 S8 without removing the cat. it has just been in for a new L/H cat and it took the guy longer to do that than to do the gearbox...

great, so basically they are incompetent and possibly even complete con artists - or both. Either way the whole experience has left me thinking I'm just going to have to suck it up and go to the main dealer. Whilst the hourly rates maybe crippling, assuming they know what they are doing, it will actually work our cheaper!

We bought the Tiguan new from them, as well as our previous 2 cars for her (VW Polo and then a Mini Cooper - both new as well) so we are considered reasonably good customers - hopefully that means I won't get the run around.

Anyone spot the trend - wife keeps getting new cars whilst I buy used??!! Thats it - I'm going to buy something extravagant for my 40th - maybe not new but a 2 year old Quattroporte is actually within reach financially (if I save very hard and the 8 doesn't continue to be a money pit in the meantime).

great, so basically they are incompetent and possibly even complete con artists - or both. Either way the whole experience has left me thinking I'm just going to have to suck it up and go to the main dealer. Whilst the hourly rates maybe crippling, assuming they know what they are doing, it will actually work our cheaper!

We bought the Tiguan new from them, as well as our previous 2 cars for her (VW Polo and then a Mini Cooper - both new as well) so we are considered reasonably good customers - hopefully that means I won't get the run around.

Anyone spot the trend - wife keeps getting new cars whilst I buy used??!! Thats it - I'm going to buy something extravagant for my 40th - maybe not new but a 2 year old Quattroporte is actually within reach financially (if I save very hard and the 8 doesn't continue to be a money pit in the meantime).

audi dealer rates crippling..........maseratti will be cheaper? :D

good point - I can always hope it doesn't fall apart.............plus that sounds exactly like something my wife would say, ruining my dreams by using logic and reason. If she had her way I never would have bought the 8!

I prefer to live in a bubble of optimism and unplug my brain when it comes to the purely (to my mind) emotional purchase of cars...........

never one to trample a dream, and anything Italian is always bought with the heart (you really can't attempt to rationalise it) and not the head. And the service price (whatever it is, i'm guessing there will be several zero's in it) is cheap when everytime to clog it, it'll make the most wonderous noise!

I had a Quattroporte a few years ago; I kept it for 12 months... enough said :ROFL:

Living out in the sticks, the bloody thing was constantly covered in mud and scratches :mad:

They say that you only live once, so if you can do it... er, do it +++

The running costs do make the S8 look somewhat like a Prius - I kid you not!

the saga continues..........
 

now all the oil leak problems have been sorted the 8 has decided to break something else........symtoms are a lumpy feel when at idle at apparent even worse fuel consumption. Managed to get it on vagcom and have a misfire on cylinders 2 & 4 and intermittant fault with the water temp sensor - this explains the engine management warning light coming on and off all the time.:(.............so basically its running as a V6 at the moment!

Dreams of a masser are looking dim if I continue to heamorage money at this rate! I am desparately hoping this will be the last of the repairs for at least a few months and dreaming of the day its running properly with no problems as all I'm getting from the missus is "I said you shouldn't have bought it...blah, blah" (which I'm struggling to argue with at the moment quite frankly!)

Based on my experinces with local garages so far anyone fancy taking a guess at the part/labour prices I have been quoted? Starter for 10......main dealer has said £36.58 for the sensor and £56 for each coli + 2 hours labour. I can get the parts on-line for half the price @ Ignition Car parts but wondered 1) is this a good idea or should I go with the OEM parts? and 2) How easy a job is this to do - i.e. could I tackle myslef with a basic tool kit?

.....obvioulsy I meant 'coils' not 'coli'........although possibly a freudean slip as the symptoms of e-coli food poisoning bear a remarkable likeness to the general feeling of nausea I get everytime I get in the 8 at the moment a find something else is broken.

Each plug has it's own coil pack so you could swap them about and see if the miss moves with them if not then it's not the coil packs, and you can do this with basic tools.

As Dezzy says. Screw driver to take of the air bog to throttle body pipe (2 jubilee clips). Allen key to remove the cover. 10mm spanner to take out no 4 coil and swap it with number 3. Replace air pipe and clear faults with vagcom, go for a drive and see if it moves to three. Do the same for 1. If it don't move, do the same with the plugs and see if it moves.

Which water temp sensor? You have 2. One in the head and one in the radiator I think.

As Dezzy says. Screw driver to take of the air box to throttle body pipe (2 jubilee clips). Allen key to remove the cover. 10mm spanner to take out no 4 coil and swap it with number 3. Replace air pipe and clear faults with vagcom, go for a drive and see if it moves to three. Do the same for 1. If it don't move, do the same with the plugs and see if it moves.

Which water temp sensor? You have 2. One in the head and one in the radiator I think.

thanks for the replies - re the sensor i think its the one in the head, but will check. As for trying it myself it looks pretty straight forward so I'm up for having a bash at it - only problem is the need to clear the faults with vagcom - I don't have it myself.

May consider just replacing the plugs anyway - if I still have the problem then its must be the coils but to check I can swap them as suggested and if it misfires then it would confirm and I can just replace? I know changing all the plugs is unnecessary but its got to be better than paying the dealer to do what seems like an easy job?

Bad luck really and those prices are outrageous £400 for transfer box seal?? It costs £10 for seal and £240 at Audi dealer

And yes for misfires swap coils and plugs around to see if fault follows them, failing that ignition amplifiers .

For the temp sensors- there are 2 one on each head, the one in the radiaor is just a simple thermo switch.

No need to clear faults. If the fault is not detected in next time it will run fine as without fault just store the fault in memory. If fault does not show up again in 30 or 40 times the ignition is turned it will be deleted itself.

Great thanks for this - I'm going to give it a go this weekend!

in the mean time....welcome to the 6 cyl a8 owners area......soon as you're an 8 cyl again however we'll have to ask you to leave.

rofl

Regarding the transfer box oil seal, luckily the only problem I've had in 18 months of S8 ownership.....

Had mine done a couple of months ago at the main dealers, 2 seals required, and a couple of exhaust clamps....... total price £150 - thanks Neyland Audi!

brilliant - I assume they main difference is that the 8 cyl members know the names, childrens names and favourite holiday locations of the staff at the local petrol station........? :ROFL:

Although apparently running on 6 cyl has actually made the already cataclysmic fuel consumption even worse.........I'm actually down to 11.9. However, for some strange reason (possibly due to the initial start of this thread......i.e the headaches) I have stopped even caring and in total disregard for the planet and my bank balance have started to see how just low I can get it to..........expensive yes, but fun trying and I assume exactly why I have 'S' mode and tiptronic options :D

Just want those 2 cyl back so I can experience the full effects of the glorious V8 lump and that adrenalin rush as I try to then stop it before heading into a hedge......I think I know exactly what audi was thinking here,...."vee vill put zee fun back in da automobile, those crazy britishers vill like this very much!"........so 360bhp, almost 2 ton and no brakes.........oh how I laugh (passengers are somewhat less appreciative for some reason?):ROFL:

Rofl +++

Have you considered lead, or depleted uranium boots......

Double function here, ensure your mpg stays in single figures, whilst improving braking by 'crowbar effect'

Don't need them with my size feet, but maybe Conan can help with some diver's boots :-)