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Pre-Facelift S8 Manual Conversion?
I own a pre-facelift S8 with a gearbox now stuck in limp home mode,
and unless it's something small like F125 switch, it's looking fairly likely it's time for a change - the car has 146k on it, 36k of which were mine, so she's well in the danger zone. I was wondering what is required to carry out the manual conversion? My car has the 32v AHC engine, the only conversions I've read about are in the states using 01E DSY Audi B5 S4/RS4 gearboxes, and on facelift 40v cars, so I know that it may not be indicative of what's to be done on a pre-facelift. As far as I know the manual in the Euro S8's was a 01E DGV gearbox, are there any other cars that had this box, maybe TDIs? I assume that a different driveshaft would be needed, would the stock S8 manual driveshaft be available form Audi? Pedal box, clutch cylinder, linkages would be necessary, would the same half shafts be ok? Does anyone have a parts list of what is necessary to carry out this conversion? |
Tozo on quattroworld has just done a few manual D2 conversions but he is in the States. It's doable might be worth doing a search on there but please keep us updated on what you find/do. Also pics of your car are a must +++
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I assume it's a right-hand drive car... The work is a bit more involved as there is a lump where the starter motor recesses and this may foul the clutch pedal. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a good bit more to do that getting a recon (or new) gearbox fitted.
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Ah yes, pics!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1037894/file...Alloy_Avus.jpg She is indeed right hand drive, so that would be a factor! This is an older pic, the wheels are standard colour, at the moment they are anthracite/black (got a second set of alloys this colour), I can't really make up my mind which I actually prefer.... She's a 1999, which is quite late for a pre-facelift, and is fairly loaded with goodies! I saw Tozo's posts, mostly on QuattroWorld (do you really have to click into every single post or am I doing something stupid??), but his conversions seem to concern later engines, and he's using an S4 gearbox, as he may not be able to get the normal gearbox in the USA, I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I was thinking of dropping him an email but said I'd post on here first in case anyone has some info? What kind of price to 5 speed S8 auto boxes run at refurbed? I'd be hesitant to buy a second hand box that already has 100k+ considering the issues they seem to have, this was the main reason I was thinking about the manual.... |
Welcome to the forum. The manual conversion of a RHD is a bit of a holy grail on here. It's something on my 'to do before i die list'. My research shows that a manual box from Europe with peddle set modifed from another VAG vechile is the way to go. Propshaft also required.
Otherwise its a full fabricated afair with an S2 or S6 manual and custom propshaft and pedal set. If you do it please keep us updated; and of course you must come to one of the A8oc events so we can see it! +++ |
I thought RHD A8 D2s have too tight footwell for 3rd pedal. LHD cars have more space in the footwell because there's no electric box from right.
On top of that, if you have quattro then your new gearbox should "match" your final drive. If they "don't match", then front wheels and rear wheels will rotate at different speeds. I would shell out 600 - 1300 pounds for gearbox rebuild. Gearboxes are repairable and will work like new if repaired properly-- I see no problem with that. My own opinion... |
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Being an aluminium car, does the art of aluminium welding to the body/chassis need to be mastered too?
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Just got the fault sheet from the garage, they asked if I'd know anyone who might
know what all this points to.... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1037894/file...8_VAGCODES.jpg Things do not look good for me unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond my control I don't have any money to spend on the car (or anything, for that matter!), so I'm just gonna have to park it for a while if it is the gearbox that needs to be rebuilt. So now I will have 2 cars parked up awaiting funds, the S8 was my daily driver so it puts me in a bit of a bind. With all the **** that's happened in the last year I must be due a lotto win or something! To fufill my curious streak however, does anyone know if the 01E DGV 6 speed that was used in the D2 S8 was used in any other cars? |
Here are the ross tech wiki outputs for those codes -
17118/P0734/001844 - Gear 4: Incorrect Ratio Possible Symptoms Clutch Slipping Reduced Power Output Possible Causes Gear related Clutch slipping/faulty Gear related Solenoid Valve dirty/faulty Overloaded Clutch due to continuous high Torque or Tuning Wiring and/or Connections faulty Sensor Gear Position Indicator faulty Mechanical Failure Possible Solutions Check Engine Values for Plausibility, especially Torque related ones. Check Wiring and Connections Check Sensor Gear Position Indicator Check Gear Solenoides Special Notes The gear monitoring of the transmission control module checks the gear ratio by comparing transmission input and output speed in regard of the currently selected gear. This fault code is being set when recognizing an implausible transmission ratio. 17114/P0730/001840 - Gear Ratio Monitoring: Incorrect Gear Ratio Possible Symptoms Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON Possible Causes Transmission Fluid contaminated Transmission faulty (Mechanical Problem) Possible Solutions Check Transmission Fluid (Color and Contamination) Replace Transmission Fluid when necessary Check Transmission Mechanics Special Notes Transmission Damage may be caused by Engine Problems, make sure there are no other/relevant Fault Codes stored in Engine Control Module. When found in 6-Speed Automatic Transmission (01J/Multitronic): Instructions on how to check the Transmission Fluid as well as Details on a special Test Kit can be found in TPI 2016661. TPI 2006088 may also be relevant. A conversion from 6 to 7 Clutch Plates may be possible. See TPI 2004856 for Details. 17087/P0703/001795 - Brake Switch (F): Electrical Malfunction Possible Symptoms Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON Possible Causes Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Brake Switch (F) faulty Brake Switch (F) faulty Possible Solutions Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Brake Switch (F) Check/Replace Brake Switch (F) Special Notes When found in Vehicles with Drive-by-Cable (DBC) the Brake Switch (F) is connected to the Transmission Control Module. On older Models this Code is stored automatically after Terminal 15/Ignition is switched ON. If the Brake Switch (F) is OK you can avoid this Fault Code by pressing the Brake Pedal after switching on the Ignition and prior to checking Fault Codes. The Code should automatically be cleared then. When found in Vehicles with Drive-by-Wire (DBW) the Brake Switch (F) is connected to the Engine Control Module In this case you should check the Engine Control Module for Fault Codes as well and the Data Bus Wiring between Engine and Transmission Control Module. 65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error Possible Causes Control Module housing leaky > Control Module wet Wiring from/to Control Module faulty Control Module faulty Possible Solutions Check/Clean Wiring from/to Control Module Replace Control Module Special Notes This fault is NOT to be ignored when found in a major and/or critical system (Airbag, ABS etc.). When stored in other unimportant systems (Radio etc.) the general suggestion is to ignore it unless you notice functional limitations. Within the warranty period dealers are usually required to replace such control modules, but there have been a couple of cases with similar codes where these are getting ignored due to flaws in the control module software. If in doubt please refer to technical bulletins and similar documents provided by the vehicle manufacturer. Audi Airbag 6 & 7 Problem: A fault of the acceleration sensor may result in the above fault. Solution: Replace Airbag control module and both acceleration sensors. Audi Airbag 8 Problem: Due to under voltage the control module does not complete it's self test successfully. Solution: Replace Airbag control module and install a under voltage protection relay for it. Certain older TDI ECUs which have a vacuum line going to them Problem: Vacuum line broken, either before ECU or inside ECU. Solution: Inspect and repair vacuum lines to ECU and inside ECU. 17114/P0730/001840 - Gear Ratio Monitoring: Incorrect Gear Ratio Possible Symptoms Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON Possible Causes Transmission Fluid contaminated Transmission faulty (Mechanical Problem) Possible Solutions Check Transmission Fluid (Color and Contamination) Replace Transmission Fluid when necessary Check Transmission Mechanics Special Notes Transmission Damage may be caused by Engine Problems, make sure there are no other/relevant Fault Codes stored in Engine Control Module. When found in 6-Speed Automatic Transmission (01J/Multitronic): Instructions on how to check the Transmission Fluid as well as Details on a special Test Kit can be found in TPI 2016661. TPI 2006088 may also be relevant. A conversion from 6 to 7 Clutch Plates may be possible. See TPI 2004856 for Details. I have to say it doesn't look good - 4th gear was what went on my recently failed box If it is that then your only hope is for a rebuild or a service exchange box, or talk to A8 parts to see if they have any reasonable ones there. Good luck with things . . . . |
Not as far as I know that is why they are hard to find and expensive 2000EUR for second hand one plus postage from Germany
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inplain straight forward english, the transmission ecu asked for gear X, but after gear X should have been engaged, the ECU found that tha ratio between the input and output shafts was an inplausible ratio, ie gear X wasn't selected.
The gearbox is seriously dumb, ie there is no real way of figuring out what is wrong without stripping it down, but 130K on an S8 is a good innings. I concur with other peoples thoughts, if cost efficiency is your goal, then get another auto box. A8parts might have one, and they have a very good idea state it is in. Its not uncommon to have cars in to break through accident damage that have recently had a refurb box in.... |
Or some shoddy crooks have mine 1.5k miles old with a warrantied gearbox :rolleyes:
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I bought a manual S8 gearbox from Germany (ebay) last year. They are (were?) crazy cheap, I could have had it for 250 euros but waited too long, and when he re-advertised it someone else bid on it too so it went to 500 euros.
However, as others have pointed out there's a ton of other bits to get, and I wouldnt even know who to go to for a manual conversion. I just read Tozo's second conversion, its good to know its possible and that it works. |
I would say a manual conversion is the way to go. Besides being pretty much maintenance-free, a manual S8 is undoubtedly much more fun to drive, quicker and easier on front brake / suspension components.
01E is a lot lighter. |
I don't agree, i don't think that a manual conversion is in the realms of most peoples home workshop / garage. Unless the car is a toy and can be sat doing nothing for months until it’s complete. If you took it somewhere to have the work done then cha ching. Just the parts alone and the time spent sourcing of them is a job in it’s self.
How many times will an 8 have a recon autobox? They seam to last about 100k so say 200k on the car when you may need a second replacement would it be worth doing then? That said I’m really looking forward to seeing one of you guys doing it as i think it’s an awesome project and hats off to you sir. But i don’t think it’s the way to go for the majority. |
^^^ Dezzy, I understand.
I guess it all depends on how many miles you do in a year, and how long you plan to keep the car for. I'd rack up 35,000 miles in a year, so 105,000 in 3. If I intend to keep the car for 5 years, I'll be back in the danger done again... I've always done my own wrenching, so perhaps my assumption that it will be cost effective to go 01E is unfair on others...my current outlay is £379, and I have all the parts required. I've just sold one of my 01E trannies for £325. My outlay would have stood at £704, still pretty cheap. As long as you know where to search for parts, you'll be sitting pretty...+++ |
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