D3 Pre-Facelift A8 4.2 QS Vs D2 Facelift S8?
 

I'm looking at going back to the D-platform.

I've previously owned a '96 D2 A8 4.2 QS, a '98 D2 S8 and lastly, an '01 D2 S8.

Now I've looked at the last of the line D2 S8, I went to view a 2003 car on a '52 registration. It looked good in the advert, but was rough in real life. Drove reasonably well, but the interior was tired, looked like it had been to the moon and back, towing a caravan. Touched-in chips in the paintwork, and a couple of parking dings.

The sloshing sound coming from behind the dash, water spilling into the passenger's side footwell with each right turn, water spitting out of the central vents, and pouring out of the rear vents made this a no-no. Of course, the wooden board covering the relay board in the passenger footwell was so wet, it was swollen, felt like a sponge.

"Final Edition" cars with 20" wheels seem to be specified lower than my old '01.

Now I'm looking at the '03/'04 D3 A8 4.2 QS. For those who've driven (or even owned) both, how does this stack up against a D2 S8 facelift? The figures online would suggest the D3 A8 4.2 QS is quicker. Is this true from a driver's perspective? What is the ZF6HP26 transmission like, when compared to the D2's ZF5HP24, in terms of reliability?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

No one can advise? I'm going to look at a 2004 model later on in the afternoon, so I would really appreciate some input here.

Hi There,

I've wondered the same sort of thing and with my car being off the road I've also been looking. I did ask a similar Q the other year (http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5612) and there is some info on there, though I feel that quite a few people are biased towards the D2.

Lee

The D3 gearbox is much more reliable by the looks of it.. But still needs regular servicing to last properly.

I felt that my D3s are a bit less 'connected' to the road than the D2, but they're at least as fast, just that the air suspension takes away a bit of the feedback.

In terms of performance, they're pretty similar, the gear ranges seem to be similar up to 5th with the D3 having 6th on top which helps with motorway cruising.

Sounds good. So just the same regular trans fluid changes (circa every 60k miles). I read somewhere about battery replacement. Are there any codes that need to be reset? Is this the famous Power Management module thing?

Thanks guys!

The codes are simply to change the serial number for the batter in the system so it resets itself.. Nothing major.

The power management module is usually only an issue if someone jumps the car using just the batter terminals. You need to jump with +ve on batt and -ve on the big terminal point just above the battery.

^^^ Thanks, PsYcHe. It looks like the D3 4.2 QS it is. +++

ZF6HP26 is such a fantastic transmission IMO, very smooth and mine has had 967nm ran through it for 95% of it's life, no signs of failure, I know of some running 1,000NM+ and the boxes are still going strong.

D3 4.2 qs or a D2 4.2 qs. For me, no contest, the D2 all day every day, but seeing as you've already had a few D2's, may as well try the D3. :rolleyes:

Amar, I'm really glad the ZF6HP26 will handle high torque levels without breaking into a sweat. I may actually grow to like auto tranny's. :cool:

I'll chip in.
Currently run a D2 and D3 4.2QS and for me, the D3 is the more comfortable cruiser - that 6th gear and the air suspension helps.
The D2 feels more communicative on the road - makes you want to ring it's neck more ;)

I'm lucky and get the best of both worlds :D

Perhaps I can you and my SWMBO to have a chat at the next meet? :D

+1. I only want TWO D2s. +++

I managed that gig for a bit too... Kept my D2 and she drove it about when I got the first D3.. Then I got a dog and the D2 went for an XC90 :(

If you mean they should have a chat then agreed - although you know it won't work out how you think.......

Carefull what you sign yourself up for... I went to one of those partys once, you know where all the keys get thrown in a bowl in the middle of the coffee table. I ended up with a garage door!

:rofl:

99.9% of the time, the D3 wins hands down. Advance key, radar cruise, the MMI, air suspension, massively more robust gearboxes, stiffer boddies handle better, fully carpetted boots, better audio, better tech, auto headlights, more comfy seats, brakes that actually work well, a really useable MFSW, more functional interiors, better economy, newer looks - All makes it a great daily driver and I drive my D3 7 days a week and feel really happy about it.

But - 0.01 of the time, I'll climb into my PF D2 and it does somehow excite me in a completely different, more connected and raw way. I dont incidently find the Facelift D2 as exciting. The PF D2 has a throttle cable and boy does that change everything. I wouldnt however by choice use it for anything more than a blast around the countryside. The D3 is far, far, far better as an everyday car by todays standards.

The PF D3's are absolute bargains now. They are so much value for money, its unreal. The few remaining nice D2 examples are holding their value through classic, collectable status, but not through every day driveability.....

A mint, low mileage, high spec D2 is a rare beast, very collectable, and should be parked up and enjoyed rarely at special occasions. Think of the D3 as the disposable, rugged, multipurpose modern equivalent that is still in good supply and and thus you can afford to be choosy, finding the exact spec and colour you want...... +++

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the official view of the forum! :rolleyes:

I drive my FL D2 S8 every day on a 70 mile round commute. Best car I've ever had by a mile and I wouldn't dream of parking it up for use only on special occasions. And IMHO, you could translate "newer looks" of the D3 to 'generic styling'.

I know the D3s are affordable, well built bargains (apart from a few horror stories about the electrics), but I suspect it's not only me that wouldn't swap their D2 for one.

But different opinions make the forum an interesting to be. :)

After test driving two cars - a 2004 D3 4,2 QS, and a 2003 of the same spec. I'm in love with this car! It blew my mind.

The 2004 car actually belongs to one of my best buddies, and he was gracious enough to let me use the car for two days! I've still got it, though we'll be swapping cars at work later in the day.

My D2's - especially the pre-facelift ones felt raw and ready, with a crisp throttle response and gruffness my '01 facelift S8 never had, and consequently felt quicker. The D3 4,2 QS is in a different league, and really puts the D2 in the shade. A much better cruiser, and yes, I can confirm it IS quicker than the facelift D2 S8. It's a bigger car, so seems more insulated, and the speed sensation is less evident.

Gas mileage, going by the DIS is better, and boy, the 6-speed tip is a joy to use! The shifts are very smooth, and from what Amar has said, has held up well to the monster torque in his C6 RS6. I'm no auto fan, but the ZF6HP26 may well change my perception of the tiptronic shift.

Interior is way ahead of the D2's - it's all too easy for a big luxury cruiser with lots of gadgets to have the interior looking cluttered. Not so with the D3 - every control is well laid out, and within easy reach. The menu system employed cuts down on extra controls anyway.

My choice is firmly the D3. Sure, the D2 is a great car, but next to the D3, it feels (and looks) old, yet not old enough (or indeed the sort of car) to gain classic status in the true sense.

Is a sunroof standard fitment on all UK D3's?

Nope... my PF D3 didn't have one.

Was there any year the D3 had rear blinds as standard? I'm looking at '03 - '05 models though. If blinds don't come this early (or if I find a nice example without) how easy is it to retrofit?

I know I'll need blinds, door cards, rear parcel shelf and the relevant harnesses / switch / relay etc.

Is it all plug-and-lay, or not worth doing? Perhaps IT can chime in here, thanks guys!

None as standard on any year, except maybe on the W12/S8, but they'd be the manual ones, there was an option of power ones too I'm sure. Should just be door cards and the hooks for the manual ones.

I've got two potential cars to view, both 2004 4.2 QS. What I'm not sure of is if they have HID headlamps or seat memory. Both have Navigation, though only one of the adverts mentions TV.

One has a sunroof. Was HID, analogue TV and seat memory standard fitment? My apologies for all these questions, I'm just more used to the D2, and the nearest of these cars is 244 miles away from me!

Thanks for your valued help.

Pretty sure the QS should have Xenon. TV and Nav were standard fit. Definitely driver's seat memory, and fairly sure passenger was standard. They're probably not mentioning the TV as it'll be Analogue so won't work, but you can still drop AV inputs into it.

If they've got the fingerprint reader, then they won't have memory buttons in the driver's side as that's controlled by your fingerprint (a PITA).

Thanks, PsYcHe! I owe you big time, I really appreciate all your valuable help. :)

Xenons were only standard on the W12 and S8, although reasonably commonly specced @ £500. Sat Nav wasn't standard on the early D3 SWB albeit often specified. MMI was standard, as was the control panel and even the NAV buttons, so check the NAV button actually does something... In 2004 Nav was standard on LWB, and £1000 on SWB.

TV wasnt standard on anything, ever to my knowledge. Even S8 and W12 you'd be ticking the box specially for it @ £705

Elec rear Blind with manual side blinds would be standard kit on a LWB model, otherwise you could have the on a SWB for £475, rear only for £300 or electric rear and sides for £700

The silver lining though is that memory driver and passenger seat were standard from the outset.

I've got a number of D3 price lists to hand, happy to check out any listings if you can post a link to them +++

Thanks, IT. Here are a couple:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-m...#photo-content

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-m...ory/1031327772

Interestingly, both were registered on the same day, with very similar license plates.

Ok, firstly OV and OU reg cars tend to be Audi Demo/Press vehicles, which explains the same day reg no doubt along with reasonable spec.

Top one first:

Its low miles, but sounds like it has a couple of silly little bits wrong with it - paint, boot etc. What else did they neglect ?

Not a fan of cream interiors, but if it low miles and doesnt look grubby with the age then they can be ok. This car looks to have adaptive cruise also - or - its had a front end prang and someone fitted the wrong grill. Hopefully the former. No aluminim pack, but an aluminium handbrake lever suggest the MMI controls were swapped at some point, probably a drink spillage which is quite common. Advance key is good to see and facelift rear lights will have set him back a few quid, plus it means you're far less likely to see water ingress from the older units which was common at that age. Overall looks quite good, although with no one buying big petrols right now you should be haggling < 5K definitely.

I'm also not a fan of tinted windows, which it seems to have, but just my personal preference.

Nice body colour. Good to see it supplied with 2 keys as well. Dont worry about the missing phone. You're far better off pulling out the factory motorola thing and fitting a proper bluetooth module anyway.

Good to see seats are heated. It was an option, unlike the D2

Sat Nav and TV is good. DVD is unlikely. It will have a DVD drive for the Sat Nav though in the boot

With Bose too, and new discs and pads all round its looking like a decent option.

and the 2nd:

Adaptive xenon lights, but no adaptive cruise. Black interior is more popular than cream, but silver outside is a bit safe imo (each to their own mindst)

Bose is good, with Sat Nav and sunroof but thats about all I can find on this one.

Lack of advance key would rule it out of my shopping list immediately tbh.

No mention of service history, shortish MOT.

If it were my money, the first one is the better one on paper, especially if it has adaptive cruise and you can get it the right side of 5K. +++

Thanks, IT! +++

I've been negotiating with the seller of the blue car. The mileage is great, but one proble - no service history. As in, none at all whatsoever, which is a worry on a 10-year-old car. Even my '95 B5 A4 QS has history up to 2010.

I also prefer the black interior, my '01 S8 had cream, and I was forever making sure my wife had her shoes clean before getting in - and she didn't like it! :ROFL:

Decisions, decisions!

Here's another ex Audi Press car, IT:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-03-Au...item3381745ddb

Looks like Aqua Blue, though it's a non-sport, not sure what the suspension on these is like. Adaptive cruise. The non-sport seats are not to my taste, how easy are Sport seats to find, and fit?

Any more insight on spec?

a8parts would sort some sports seats I'm sure, but not sure how easily they fit in.

The photos are pretty lame for this one, ACC, and possible adaptive xenons, but hard to say what else it has. Radio / cassette apparently which isn't possible, so take the rest of the text with a cut and paste pinch of salt.

I cant justify it, but I'm just not warming to this one at all.... I guess even if you upgrade the seats, they're still not black.

Well, the blue one's with privacy glass is gone...

So it's the silver one, or this one:

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-m...#photo-content

Quite a high spec - blinds, ACC, solar sunroof, adaptive xenons, keyless entry (finger print recognition) etc. No sports seats or steering wheel though, not sure what suspension it has either.

The black wheels, I can't stand, but they can be replaced. The pictures couldn't be worse - so fuzzy! Probably taken with a pin-hole camera, or a VGA camera on a Sharp GX20 phone. :rolleyes:

I've spoken to the seller, but he can't get any more pictures today. Blaming the poor quality on the "bad weather" yesterday. :tuttut:

Again, not having much experience with the D3...is 150,000 miles a risk? The car has Audi history up to 90,000 miles, the timing belt, rollers, water pump and tensioner was done at the last service. There are three folders of bills - it's had an ABS module replaced by Audi, transmission fluid and filter change.

Just wondering if the mileage makes it a no go purchase? It's a 2004 car in metallic blue with:

Adaptive Sport Air Suspension.
Adaptive Xenons.
Adaptive Cruise Control.
TPMS.
Cool Box.
Voice Control.
Mobile Phone Preparation.
18" 5 Arm Alloy Wheels.
Aluminium Pack.
Accoustic Parking (F&R).
TV / DVD.
Sat Nav (naturally).


I'm not sure if it has a sunroof yet, but I'm not really bothered if it doesn't (I never used the sunroof on my '96 4.2 QS, '98 S8 and my facelift '01 S8).

Depends on how it drives.. You could get another 100k trouble free from it. If it's in good nick (mostly motorway, etc.), then it could be a better shout than a short journey model.

Take my PF for example, low miles, but had a huge list of issues for the garage to sort out.

Thanks guys for all your valuable help. I ended up buying a 2005 car, well specified too. No adaptive cruise though, but:

Adaptive Sports Air Suspension.
Adaptive Xenon Plus.
Electric Rear Blind.
Manual Side Blinds.
Extended Aluminium Look.
Power Door Closing.
Power Trunk Closing.
Alcantara Pack.
Light Pack Interior / Exterior.
Ebony Black Pearl Effect Paint.
Bluetooth GSM Phone.
TV Reception (Analogue).
DVD Player.
DVD Based Navigation.
Heated Front And Rear Seats.
Electric Heated Mirrors.
Folding Door Mirrors.
Auto-Dimming Mirrors, Int. And Ext.
Sports Front Seats.
Digital Climate Control, Front And Rear.
Bose Surround Sound.
6 Disc Multichanger.
Front Seat Memory.
Electric Steering Adjustment With Memory.

Picking her up next Friday. I just wanted to ask some questions:

Is it possible to retrofit ACC?
Was there an electric rear side blinds option, if yes, is retrofit possible?

Thanks!

You can retrofit ACC, but it's a big job.. new cluster, bumper bits, the radar unit, wiring, etc. Probably not really worth the hassle TBH.