A8 Timing out?
 

Ok so forgive me If this turns into a waffle but I guess you need the story.

Bought a 2000 A8 D2 2.8 recently. (picture in introductions)
after about a week it started making a noise that I attributed to a tensioner on the aux belt.

Turns out I got it to the garage just in time as the water pump had died and dropped water all over the tensioner below it causing catastrophic failure (loss of all ball bearings) and very nearly toasting the car.

I took it to my very competent tame mechanic who fitted a new cambelt kit tentioners water pump and rollers in just under 2 hours.

He told me with the bearing going he had no correct reference point so had to guess the belt position (possible misquote here)

I've since read about the special tools and about having to take the front end off to do the job.
I've also read a lot of posts on here that tells me this isn't uncommon.

Everything works fine and runs but I now have a lumpiness at tickover that wasn't there before.

We both suspect the timing may be slightly out and the VCDS log kinda confirms it.



What I need to know is
1. if I buy the special tools will that allow him to set it up properly if he has no correct reference point.

2. where do I get the tools and a ball park price if possible

The car does have one or two other issues but I'm kicking off here with the priority cases.

Thanks in Advance

Mike


VCDS LOG (Excuse me if its incorrect its the first time I've used it)

Monday,09,February,2015,11:08:17:62939
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: Release 12.12.0 (x64)
Data version: 20130910


VIN: WAUZZZ4DZYN008033 License Plate: X307WRC
Mileage: 132212 Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Control Module Part Number: 3B0 907 551 AB
Component and/or Version: 2.8L V6/5V G 0001
Software Coding: 04553
Work Shop Code: WSC 00202
Additional Info: WAUZZZ4DZYN008033 AUZ7Z0X1202885
VCID: 63C54907F1A06306E91-5000
3 Faults Found:

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-10 - - Intermittent
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1650 - 35-10 - Missing Message from Instrument Cluster - Intermittent
17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
P1338 - 35-00 - Open or Short to Plus

Readiness: 0000 0000

I'd start with the camshaft position sensor... That would cause timing issues. Can't remember if it can be done with the belts in situ or not, but other members have has issues.

Camshaft position sensors do fail now and again, sometimes without ill effects apart from fault code, other times affect engine running. You probably want to change that first, new are quite expensive(over £200) but they are known fail so it is a risk when buying second hand. There is 2 of them, 1 on each bank, G40 will be on back of bank 2 left side of the engine, cylinders 4-6. But fault code 17746 should be for sensor G163 which is on bank 1, so this is a bit confusing :Confused:

Timing tools for 30V V6 can be bought on e-bay at reasonable price not like expensive ones for 32V V8's. There is 2 tools needed, examples on the e-bay links below.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-V6...item418212bf0e

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Locking-Cr...item3f3298624c

Also check measuring blocks for learned lambda values, should be within -10..+10% and no more than 4% difference between banks. If the difference is more than 4% it definitely needs timing done but even if it is less still might need doing.

These V6 seem to be sensitive to overheating so it might have suffered some damage if coolant had leaked out and overheated.

Its never over heated as far as i'm aware in fact it runs very cold most of the time.

I have the same engine in my A4 and it's bang on 90c when warm.

I'm way below 90

Although I'm thankful for any advice there was nothing wrong with them before the cam belt was done I can't see why there would be now.

I'd rather avoid swapping out 2x £200 + parts if its just the cam belt being a tooth out as I asked.

Everything was fine before the change everything is fine now apart from the lumpiness.

Is there a way I can prove or disprove these things needing changing before I go out and spend 400 plus on new parts Just to find its a tooth out and could have been sorted for the cost of the labour.

Please don't think I'm second guessing your help I really do appreciate it I just wanna be sure, this care is gonna cost enough to sort as it is without just throwing part after part at it in the hope that might be the issue.


Thanks i'll run a full check tomo and report back.
I've ordered both tools so will just have to wait till they turn up and book it back in

I'd be looking at the thermostat or engine coolant temperature sensor if it's been like that for a while.
Not sure what and where that is on a 2.8 but I'd guess it's not that different to a 4.2.

The 4.2 sensor is relatively easy to replace, but a bit of a swine to get at and put back without the risk of losing the retaining clip. I've done it at least 3 times (don't ask!).
Again, if it's the same sensor as a 4.2 it's a pretty common VAG part (green 4-pin type) and I think it actually has 2 sensors in it, one used by the engine management and the other by the instruments.
Don't buy a cheap clone if you do replace it - tenth of the price but a tenth of the quality. :tuttut:

Guess belt position ? Nonsense. You lock the crank with crank locking pin, pop sprockets off both banks and use the bar to line them up with belt in place. Not hard at all but you need the bar and the pin to stop it pulling timing when you tension.

ok so with the correct tools it should be possible to sort, thanks.

I've ordered them up so should be able to sort it and if the crank position sensor pops up again after its done i'll swap that out as well.

Thank you all+++

You can wedge something like a chunk of wood behind sprocket and rear of upper timing guard plate, then lightly tap the rear of the timing guard with a hammer to pop the sprocket off (it doesn't damage the guard provided you have filled the space between sprocket and guard on inside). Much easier than using pullers.

Thats brilliant thanks for the help.+++