D2 S8 Remap - worth it or not?
 

I can't recall how but I ended up looking at various companies offering remaps of the D2's ECU.

Claims of 20BHP gains and some more torque were banded about and the cost seemed to be between £300-£400.

I'm one for keeping a car as original as possible, however the thought of an extra 20BHP without major work does appeal. That would mean something getting close to 380bhp before adding any subtle and appropriate upgrades; another way to look at it would be to restore some of the BHP that's been lost so you're close to the original amount they supposedly had when new.

Either way, on paper it sounds appealing.

Has anyone done this and found the end result worth it, or is perceived wisdom to leave well alone on D2s (S8 in this instance)?

My old S8 had some sort of remap (a chip-swap soldering job) done by the previous owner, though I never did get to the bottom of exactly what it was - the paperwork from whoever did it wasn't very illuminating.

He reckoned it was to change the gearbox behaviour to make it more sporty, though from what I could see it was more likely engine-related.
Given that I didn't find my FL S8 to feel any quicker that's plausible I guess.

The services I've looked don't require any chip-swapping, more updating the existing software.

I'm thinking that 20hp isn't going to feel that different is it? And that's assuming they achieve the full increase that they claim to be able to make.

The PF cars couldn't, when they were current, be remapped without an EPROM change. Not sure if that has changed, but not an issue on facelift cars.

There's a small number that've had Revo maps on D2s that have felt they added something to the car. If you want an extra 20bhp, or at least what feels like it, if you run regular unleaded swap to high octane stuff and you'll feel that increase and then some!

I looked into the Revo option, even as far as having my map read off the ECU because they didn't have a file for the ECU version I have. I decided not to do it because I wasn't convinced that what I would get would improve the car without the risk of damage. I also started a job where emissions control is a major part - what I learnt early on from that job (which I still do) is that mapping is a whole lot more complex than a lot of remappers would have you believe. The difficulty is telling the ones who know what they're doing from those that talk the talk. Even big companies haven't impressed me when questioned.

I wouldn't bother.

Since these cars are normally aspirated, and already tuned quite optimally from the factory, there's little room for improvement, as I found out myself a while ago.

I was fortunate enough to be invited along to Superchips' workshop in Buckingham several years ago, to spend a day with them learning their remapping procedures. I took along the '8 I owned at that time, a '97 4.2 (non-sport), and they kindly offered to roll it and map it for me, using their 4wd dyno.

After taking a copy of the original fuel map, they spent half an hour or so tweaking and customising the map in an attempt to get the best performance increase possible. We then re-rolled the car and compared results, only to find it was DOWN 5bhp from the original! They decided to try again, and an hour or so later they produced another map, which increased the bhp this time by about 5-10bhp. The difference was of course barely noticeable on the road.

I suspected as much, thanks for your replies. I'll save the money for something more important.

I use V-Power all the time and there is a noticeable difference if I have to use another brand, and even then I'll only put enough of that in to get me to the next Shell station.

Tesco do a 99 but the flake keeps clogging up the fuel filter.

I spoke to a respected mapper on the Audi circuit when i had mine (Rick @ Unicorn) and he opined he could but wouldn't bother as the gains will be so marginal, i probably wouldn't notice it / be worth the outlay.

User - A8 Doc - on this forum used to be involved in remapping, no idea if he still does but worth a quick email I'd think

I doubt you could get 20hp extra without changing the exhaust. The stock S8 has 400cpi cats, and baffled mid and rear box probably not optimal for performance.
So before re-mapping you would definitely need to change the exhaust and cats.
To get a even a bit more power you would probably need to port & polish the intake manifold and get some long tube headers made up (very expensive). Then a remap after all the physical changes. Have a look at JHM S4 videos on youtube, they got a lot of power out of their S4, it has more or less the same engine as the S8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n7xVwjWWD0

The other way to 'power' is actually to reduce weight. Acceleration = Force (torque) / mass

Mine was remapped before I bought it. The graphs that came with it show about 5-10 BHP increase at best, although I do think it picks up a little better at lower revs than my previous S8, but you'd probably not notice the difference unless you'd been told.

:ROFL:

Class... Can't believe no one else commented on that one +++

My usual Shell outlet (Chiswell Green, just off M25 J21A) was closed when I passed it on Sunday.
Had to fill up with BP 97 on the A12 near Gants Hill. The S8 looked seriously out of place among the chavmobiles.....
(That's what happens when your younger son decides he's going to marry an Essex girl and live in her "manor")

Very droll about the flake.......

Where this would be worthwhile is for anybody on LPG as you can remap to regain the loss that running this on a normal advance curve gives you.

Yes Will, this does mean you!

Thought I'd chip in on this one. Against the prevailing opinion I am completely in favour of remapping the D2 S8.

Along with a few others here I had the REVO Stage 2 map put on my old car. It was totally worth it in my opinion as it made the car far more drive-able in normal conditions and gave it a more urgent top end.

The biggest difference was that is moved the torque further down the rev range. Before the map, the car really needed 4000rpm, before you would start to feel the push in the back. After the map, my car would pull from 2500rpm and then above 4000rpm it would start to stomp on again, with the final 6-7000rpm range being awesome. In fact it would rev out so hard and fast in the lower gears, the change up points where about 250rpm higher.

In daily driving the car felt much smoother, even though I had the most aggressive map for the throttle response. It was faster at Santa Pod, I gained 0.2 secs in the qtr mile.

Overall well worth the money I paid for it. The REVO map, felt entirely consistent on all the other cars I drove. In a side by side rolling test, two S8's with the maps couldn't be separated between 50-130mph. An added bonus for me was that when I forced to fit Sports Cats to my car, the map had already coded out the rear lambda sensors. Oh, it also removed the speed limiter, I had a GPS verified 158mph in Germany and it was still pulling when I had to slow for traffic.

The remap on my old S8 also removed the speed limiter, though I never tested that myself.
The previous owner said he had reached 170mph in Germany, though I suspect that was indicated rather than verifiable.

Imo 20bhp is really quite negligible in the grand scheme of things....

Bear in mind the facelift S8 is a mere 50bhp more than its 4.2 A8 younger brother and really the perceived increase in performance comes not from the 50bhp, but from the totally different final drive ratios.... If you want to make an A8 much faster, fit an S8 gearbox....

If you had it on a rolling road, it might be able to detect the extra handful of ponies, and it'd win a game of top trumps, but in the real world I can't see it making any difference....

Over the years lots, and lots of people have wanted more go from their normally aspirated D2, but in reality it just isn't easy. Or it would have been done time and time again. And it hasn't.

Option1: Supercharge
Option2: Fit a different engine
Option3: Lose lots of weight

These are the only 2 options I've ever seen that have actually made a difference, but they are somewhat intrusive.... +++

There are 11 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't. :rolleyes:

I'm not interested in making the S8 significantly faster, so I won't be going down the weight reduction/supercharging route.

I was interested to know whether the mapping helped tap a little of the potential that's tucked away behind the factory set-up. From Reffro's reply, they are the results I would hope to notice; maybe not the autobahn speeds bit.

More excitingly; a quick visit to Revo's site shows me there is a dealer 10 minutes down the road. I'll pay him a visit this afternoon and see what he says.

Yes, I clearly wrote the original piece with 10 options, then added a late entry and didn't review... Well spotted :D

I'd agree with this - I had the same remap done (as did Darren, I think), and it made a real qualitative difference to the drivability of the car (smoother, seamless response, better response at higher revs), and generally suited the car's character better. Slight improvement in fuel consumption too..

clive atthow certainly knows his stuff. he's also got a 4WD rolling road. :)

That's the one.

A mate who works at Lotus was sceptical too. He said some of the cheaper remaps work by convincing the engine into thinking it's colder than it actually is, hence more fuel being chucked in and boosting performance by running rich basically.

I'll let you know what Clive says tomorrow.

After a vist to the local respected tuner and Revo dealer, the general consensus was 'You can if you want but is it worth it?'.

The age and mileage of the car was questioned and also the fact they aren't exactly underpowered to start with. They asked if I would I notice the difference of 30lbs of torque while pottering around in an old S8. Possibly not.

They then said that the same 30lb increase would make more of a difference to a Porsche but that is a different beast.

They suggested putting it on a dyno and seeing what's there to start with which seemed sensible, but even then the owner of the place was started doing a lot of sucking of teeth and mutterings of 'Well S8's are hard to strap down so it might take all morning...'

I get the impression they thought I'd be wasting my money and their time, so for now I'll ditch the idea, spend some money on new plugs/filters. A Milltek is on the cards for next year so for now, remapping doesn't seem worth it.

Your call…a Milltek's a fair bit more than a Re(vo)map, from memory…and is one of the few remaining things on my list: I just need my existing exhaust to give up the ghost first ;)

It's not a cost issue really, more a change of approach.

Rather than stick a remap on a car with old parts, I'm thinking a decent exhaust and quality replacement parts as they wear out, then when that's all taken care of, a remap as the cherry on the cake.

Plus I'd like a year or 2 of having vaguely sensible insurance premiums before having to declare the car as modified.

In addition TinTin, am I right in thinking you had the Stage 2? That's one stage further than I want to go but I can see how that would make more of a change than the mild Stage 1 I am considering.

ever since the exhaust joining sleeve broke (and the car sounded amazing!) i have been toying with fitting a couple of these before the rear box.

car is quiet and serene when i want it, but at the flick of a switch it becomes a snarling animal.

http://www.driftworks.com/blog/2012/...-now-in-stock/

plus i love the name. "retard valve" lol :)

I think this is the way to go. I'm no expert but I constantly hear from other people that you should always remap after doing the exhaust not before, otherwise you have to remap again afterwards to take account of the different, probably more free-flowing exhaust.

I even heard, not sure how true this is, if you change to a more free flowing exhaust but stay on the old map that was specific for the restrictive exhaust, you can actually lose some power/torque.

A Revo map is generic so isn't tailored to the spec of the car - it's flashed to the ECU and you get what you get. For a more tailored remap you'd have to go to MRC or Unit 20 etc.

Ref Millteks - they've stopped production of the S8 exhaust due to lack of demand. They did offer to check European stock holdings amongst their distributors, so the lack of response either means they forgot, or there aren't any.

When I asked about making another batch, they wanted 8 orders before they would do it due to setting up time for the tooling etc. Might be worth a thread on its own to see if you can generate 8 names?

The receipt for mine shows it was about £1k back in 2010 - I think it's a pretty faithful copy of the factory system in terms of boxes and routing and it's cats back. I think it suits the character of the car well as you can hear it's a V8 but it's no noisier than the standard exhaust on an E39 530 Sport BMW from inside the car.

I imagine Hayward and Scott would do one if your pockets were deep enough - the quality would almost certainly be better than the Milltek option and if a batch were to be made could work out cheaper?

Adrian,

Add me to the list if you're looking for 8 names.

I've got one on mine - I enquired at a show as I hadn't seen them listed for a while :D

I had a H & S exhaust on my previous S8. The quality is outstanding, and it was only £1300 and that is including a x-pipe, new pipework and brackets to fit the sport cats I supplied, so cat back may be close to £1000, worth asking. Oh and it did not rust after 4 years being on the car and not cleaned at all.
Personally, I wouldn't use them again because I feel they are a bit hard-headed when it comes to customer requests and getting some details spot on. For example they fitted my sport cats backwards?? and did not center the pipes in the rear boxes giving the exaust a odd look from behind.
Next time I'm going for Primary Designs, I know that's going to be around £2k but I just don't care because I will get exactly what I want.

By the way the H&S sounded great! I still miss that sound.

There's a common misconception on this forum. Unit 20 won't tailor make a map. They're agents for Revo amongst other tuners. Not to take anything away from Grizz or U20, who I've used a few times on my V8 C5 for mechanical work, coding is always done at MRC.

Also, agree with the other replies. I wouldn't bother mapping the S8. Better off spending the money on fuel.

+++

All things considered, I think that is probably the most sensible thing to do.

I was trying to think who the other mappers were - Unicorn is another that does tailored maps from memory?

I agree though on the D2 - I'm not convinced

That, or freshen up the suspension. A Meyle kit or some new shocks/springs would be money better spent, cheeky exhaust or a detail ready for the summer?

Upgraded anti-roll bars is what I'm currently arranging on my car, and was the best mod on my previous RS 6, not sure they do them for the D2 though, shame.

There's Ricky at Unicorn and a chap at Viper Tuning, his name escapes me.

Ricky was working from Unit 20's premises when I was last down there about three years ago, nice chap.

The fastest D2 S8 I've driven was a manual one, noticeably quicker than a tip. I couldn't really feel much/any difference in the Revo'd D2s if I'm completely honest. That could just be me, Reffro/Darren could, and they'd lived with them pre/post map.

There is Shark Performance as well, they usually turn up to ADI and GTI

His name is Rich. Mapped my S4 before and after the K04's went on it. Has a very good reputation. +++