Spacers - advice please

[The_Laird]

Well, after the episode with one of my rear spacers parting company with the hub on the motorway, I'm currently not using them as the bolts that attached it to the hub have stretched.

But I did like the look of 20mm spacers on the rear and I'm thinking about getting replacement bolts (or maybe a complete set of new spacers) as well as spacers for the front wheels.

But, here are a few questions:

1. If I buy new bolts, where from and what spec?
2. How do I know what torque setting to use and should I use a locking compound of some sort on the threads?
3. If new spacers, what should I be looking for. Any recommendations?
4. What width for the front spacers?
5. 20mm always looked perhaps a little too wide on the rear. Should I go for 15mm?

[ScottD3]

1. If I buy new bolts, where from and what spec?

Bolts for the spacers or the wheels?
Ebay appears to be fine, they are all the same spec I believe with just the heads being different, tapered or not.

2. How do I know what torque setting to use and should I use a locking compound of some sort on the threads?

I always use 120 n m or 90 lb f.
Never used locktight, only used copper grease.


3. If new spacers, what should I be looking for. Any recommendations?

Depends on your width, if you're concerned with unsprung weight.
what ever you go for make sure they are hubcentric.
If you are not worried about unsprung weight, I'd go for anything really but H+R does get a good rep but they cost so much.

4. What width for the front spacers?

Bolt the wheels to the hub with no spacers on. Put the car on flat ground and measure the distance between the top of the wheel and the arche.
That should give you an idea of what size you can go up to before hitting the arch.

5. 20mm always looked perhaps a little too wide on the rear. Should I go for 15mm?

I'm not sure how it currently looks with 20mm on but if its not rubbing and you're happy with it, stick with them.

With your little incident that happened, are you sure the threads in the hubs are good?
Did the bolts from the spacers to the hub go through all the way and had enough threads?

[The_Laird]

I've had the whole set-up checked at the garage, with the brief to them that I wanted it sorting properly, not on a budget. They have said that the hub threads are good, but the bolts that fixed the spacer to the hub are stretched. They even suggested that I needn't replace the discs, but I insisted that they did.

Short term, I'm just going to leave the spacers off, but I'm sure I'll go back to them, just 'cos I like the look! But I'll make checking the torque a regular job in future!

Thanks for the advice. +++

[ainarssems]

Bolts will definitely be different quality, from different steel compositions and possibly manufactured different process depending on who made them but it's hard to say which ones will be better. I have used several cheap sets from e-bay for wheels without any issues, for wheels because merc wheels are thicker and need longer bolts that is and not spacers.I would think that bolts are way over-engineered for safety reasons any way so if you get a bit lesser quality they will still be fine. I guess you cannot go wrong with OEM bolts either new or second hand but it's bit more tricky if you need different specification like length or seat type.

Talking about seat type, are those spacer bolts with taper, radius or flat seat? If flat I would probably be tempted to use threadlock for them.

[Adrian E]

From memory my h&r spacers have a taper seat and the bolts supplied match that taper as you'd expect. They do have quite a small depth so the spacer bolts sit within the thickness available so regular wheel bolts would be no use

I posted info somewhere here on ordering a set at a good price from euro car parts using discount codes from AudiSRS and quoting a part number I found on Amazon

Ref spacer size - I think 20mm is the smallest non-bolt through spacer you can get. They do space the wheel right to the arch line but mine has never rubbed even fully laden. Maybe slightly thinner would be ok but not sure I like the idea of 15+mm extra length on wheel bolts tbh

[David's8]

Bolts for structural fixings are required to meet certain specifications and standards to avoid material defects causing failure - including stretching - and whether they can be used only once. (I am currently looking at this for offshore lifting of generator pods.) There is usually a marking on a bolt head to indicate the quality/type of bolt but I am not sure that the spacer and wheel lug bolts have any such indicator? Obviously removing and re-placing spacers and wheel bolts and over torquing them will have a long term effect. I will do some more digging on this.+++

[Architex_mA8tey]

These people are very good for Wheel nuts and bolts etc. -
http://www.speedshack.co.uk/Wheelnuts.htm
Ive used them myself +++

[The_Laird]

Thanks mate! :)

[mikes2]

The 20" wheels on the S8 use a different torque setting from the rest of the range for the wheel bolts- 140 Nm. Can the bolts for the spacers handle this torque ?

All bolts should be fitted dry - no grease, no threadlock.

if it was me, I'd remove the spacers and run standard

[ainarssems]

no grease, no threadlock

Audi disagrees with you here, they say to use anti seize paste G-052-109-A2 . It's supposed to be rebranded Castrol Optimol TA.

I have always used copper paste to prevent bolts from rusting in and they have never come loose.

I have sheared couple of bolts in the past on other cars undoing bolts where no paste have been used and bolts not touched for couple of years.

[ScottD3]

Same as ainarssems.

I've never over tightened a bolt to the point is snapped.
If I still had my spare hub I would be tempted to see how far standard and aftermarket botls can go.

[The_Laird]

The 20" wheels on the S8 use a different torque setting from the rest of the range for the wheel bolts- 140 Nm. Can the bolts for the spacers handle this torque ?

All bolts should be fitted dry - no grease, no threadlock.

if it was me, I'd remove the spacers and run standard

Why is the torque different for the 20" wheels on an S8? Some S8s had 18" wheels and some of the later A8s had 20" wheels as standard (even my first 2.8 had 20" FE wheels as standard). This is not my area of expertise at all, but I am confused. :Confused:

For now, at least until I'm happy that I can re-fit spacers with confidence, I've taken the spacers off, fitted new discs and am back on the road in my beloved S8 :D (after a day in a mini and a day on the train :().

[ainarssems]

Can't see anything in ElsaWin about different torque on 20", all it says is 120Nm for regular bolts and 140Nm for security bolt. And 140Nm for all bolts on PAX wheels.

[ScottD3]

PAX wheels?

I always done security bolts less than recommended cause I'd hate to have to remove them.

[Adrian E]

Do mine to 120Nm all round and never had an issue - my spacer bolts are identically torqued

[ainarssems]

PAX wheels?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelin_PAX_System

[ScottD3]

O run flats.

[mikes2]

Those directions have changed. I see the instructions are for lightly corroded threads. If the bolts are clean, there's no requirement for grease

Workshop manual for my older cars all say no grease.

When I had my old S8, I was told 140nm for the 20" wheels by the dealer. I had a loose wheel incident after using 120

[The_Laird]

Harping back to my original mishap (wheel coming off on the morway, if you missed it), it reminded me of an old Kenny Rogers song...

...anyone care to make a guess which one? :)

[Norretal]

Harping back to my original mishap (wheel coming off on the morway, if you missed it), it reminded me of an old Kenny Rogers song...

...anyone care to make a guess which one? :)

Showing our age Jim, it'll be "Lucille" you're referring to ;)

[The_Laird]

Showing our age Jim, it'll be "Lucille" you're referring to ;)

Yep, right first time!

With the particularly relevant line:

"You picked a fine to leave me, Loose Wheel.."


I'll get my coat! :D


PS, the mis-heard lyrics carry on;

"With 400 children, and a cr*p in the field" :ROFL:

[ScottD3]

I had to Youtube that song.
Sorry.