Are Teslas any good?

[Goran]

Originally Posted by notorious

Goran, D2 is the best car ever built. Forget tesla.

I need reminding, and the faults of these other cars help me remember.

[tintin]

The Model S is the future, the '8 is the past (but a very nice one).

Here's a good, very concise, and readable article on why:

http://qz.com/529428/have-tesla-and-...-of-no-return/

[The_Laird]

I read an article earlier today about the concept Lexus hydrogen cell car that appeared at the Japanese motor show. It said that this was the future, not electric cars.

[tintin]

Possibly, and that'd be good, but the barriers to entry for that to happen seem to be higher, and no-one is really driving that yet, either in terms of model release, or infrastructure build. It would be a "cleaner" solution, but I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon (i.e. before the next decade).

Either way, Audi/VAG and the others are going to have to change fundamentally, and pretty quickly.

[notorious]

Excellent article.
No problems with the strategy and the vision (doing the right things)
I'm worried about the tactical execution (doing things right) given the Goran's links.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by notorious

Excellent article.
No problems with the strategy and the vision (doing the right things)
I'm worried about the tactical execution (doing things right) given the Goran's links.

I think they'll be fine, and those are relatively minor growing pains. Look at the relatively smooth release of their V7 software ("Autopilot") recently, as an example. It was delayed by a couple of weeks, admittedly - very Telsa/Elon Musk - but my Tesla now accelerates faster, stops better, and handles more crisply (amongst other things) and all done without it leaving my driveway .

I'm pretty sure they've passed the tipping point now, and it's easier to do things right when you've got a simple business model, clear strategy, a great product and the wind direction is on in your favour. None of which seems to apply to the major players - dismantling and rebuilding a multibillion $ enterprise/ecosystem is far, far harder for them to do. Though to be fair to the Germans, at least they're trying: JLR don't seem to have a clue about what's happening/about to happen.

[notorious]

For me it only makes sense to buy new Tesla under warranty and get rid of it before warranty expires.

Without warranty the cost to repair it will kill all savings made on petrol, mot, etc.

Just read Goran's links.

[Witchfinder]

Originally Posted by The_Laird

I read an article earlier today about the concept Lexus hydrogen cell car that appeared at the Japanese motor show. It said that this was the future, not electric cars.

There are many, many problems with hydrogen fuel cells. The fuel is volatile. There's no established infrastructure. It's expensive (£53 to fill your car with hydrogen at Heathrow). It can't "burst" power in the way a battery can without using big, heavy capacitors.

Hydrogen is just a medium for transporting energy. You can fully charge a your £50,000 Tesla for a couple of quid. Filling up your slower, more expensive £53,000 Hyundai ix35 costs nearly as much as a tank of diesel.

[Witchfinder]

There are no brakes on the hype-train

http://www.nanoflowcell.com/

[Goran]

Originally Posted by Witchfinder

..It can't "burst" ...

I'm sure it can do that in a different way

"Toyota's proprietary, small, light-weight fuel cell stack and two 70 MPa high-pressure hydrogen tanks placed beneath the specially designed body"

70MPa is rouhgly 10,000Psi. sounds fine
Because in the history of hydrogen propulsion nothing bad ever happened from storing large amounts of hydrogen at high pressure.