Tesla

[Audidothat]

Today I happened to spend a few minutes on the M4 next to a Tesla S, a lovely looking car. I was able to climb all over one a while ago and was very impressed with the design, especially seats 6&7 in the boot! I also really like the 4x4 Tesla X.

The point of my thread I suppose is to ask a question. I don't get it, what am I missing? A simple explanation for a simple man.

I counted 24 others cars immediately around myself and the Tesla, so much fuel, so much combustion. The simple fact is my car alone cancels out any environmental gain attempted by the Tesla doesn't it?

Are they prolific enough yet to be making an impact?
Is it for tax gain?
Is it the early, upward bend of a bell curve?
Am I looking at an iPhone 4 and I won't get the concept until the iPhone 7 is released?

If anyone can help me, Tintin can!

Anyway as the traffic opened up he went back to doing 70 in the inside lane and I didn't! LOL

[tintin]

It's simple - it's the future, and it's here now.

Admittedly, Tesla's are expensive at the moment - but they are faster, safer, greener, quieter, and much, much easier to use than any traditional car, and worth every penny (in my opinion). And they're great to drive.

Below are some examples of the impact they've made, any of which would have been unthinkable even 3 years ago:

1 - Shell installing EV charging stations in the UK (and, presumably, elsewhere):https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/31/shell-ev-chargers/
2 - VAG moving investment from ICE vehicles to a full EV range: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36548893
3 - Major European cities moving away from allowing ICE vehicles access within 10 years: http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/m...-by-2025_68623
4 - EV charging stations overtaking the number of petrol stations within 4 years: https://www.zap-map.com/uk-at-tippin...ging-locations.

This progress has undoubtedly also been accelerated by factors other than Tesla, including: Dieselgate, the reducing cost of green energy production and storage, and greater public awareness of the damage done by things like diesel particulates, but Tesla have lit the fire.

There's only one direction of travel, and - much as I love my S8 to bits - I'll never buy an ICE vehicle again.

For most people, all you have to do is drive a Tesla to understand the difference, and next year the Model 3 will be hear at a price which is within the reach of many millions more. All the other manufacturers will then follow suit.

If you need to know more, just let me know.

PS - the Model S is also 4wd ;-)

[briang9]

I have driven Tintin's Tesla and it was very quick and the self drive technology was very impressive..however I missed the noise and general experience of a petrol car. The last episode of TGT did a "real world" comparison test between petrol and electric cars, the BMW i3 and the Golf. You would kinda expect them to be biased towards petrol but Clarkson, when he was with BBC TG, decided he would prefer the i8 to an equivalent petrol BMW. However the conclusion in TGT was that in the real world electric cars in general are still not as "usable" or "practical" at the moment. I am sure this will change but at the moment I do share TGT view and would not consider an electric car as being practical for my requirements at the moment.. Sorry Stephen I know you are passionate about your's but that is my view at present..

ETA I recently read that if everyone in the UK switched to EV then the National Grid as it stands would struggle to cope

[HPsauce]

I'm not convinced about any or all of it, impressive though the Tesla product is even now, for those whose lifestyle it matches.
My thoughts (some good, some bad):
1. Greenness. This is largely down to the source of your electricity. Traditional power stations (coal, oil, gas) are no better and probably much worse at generating motive power per "CO2" than petrol/diesel. Once we get to a high level of renewables then the chain of energy delivery probably needs a rethink.
2. Performance. Electric motors do seem to have a lot of advantages in the way power is delivered. Lots of interesting developments are exploiting this with "hybrid" drives; I see this developing rapidly.
3. Pollution. This is different to greenness. Electric power currently seems to be a mechanism of "moving" the pollution from roads/cities etc. to "somewhere else".
4. Batteries. Heavy, expensive, polluting (especially in manufacture/disposal), use relatively rare chemicals. Best avoided IMHO and can we ever make and maintain enough of them?
5. Energy density. Related to batteries. Petrol/diesel are EXTREMELY efficient lightweight ways of carting around the energy to power things; in comparison batteries are useless.
6. Something I've forgotten/overlooked that's highly relevant. (Edit: e.g. refuelling time?)

In the long term I see potential solutions with a mix of:
1. Alternative non-hydrocarbon primary energy sources
2. Synthesis of high-energy-density fuels (petrol, diesel, maybe even hydrogen?) using above energy sources
3. Largely hybrid vehicles with a different bias between electric/battery/fuel sources depending on intended use and local pollution constraints.
4. Possibly alternative short-term energy storage to replace batteries in vehicles, such as flywheels, high-pressure gases, etc.

Meanwhile I'll just be pragmatic, but right now a Tesla doesn't meet my needs. Nor do any other current electric or hybrid vehicles, though the A3 e-Tron got fairly close.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by briang9

I have driven Tintin's Tesla and it was very quick and the self drive technology was very impressive..however I missed the noise and general experience of a petrol car. The last episode of TGT did a "real world" comparison test between petrol and electric cars, the BMW i3 and the Golf. You would kinda expect them to be biased towards petrol but Clarkson when he was with BBC TG decided he would prefer the i8 to an equivalent petrol BMW. However the conclusion in TGT was that in the real world electric cars in general are still not as "usable" or "practical" at the moment. I am sure this will change but at the moment I do share TGT view and would not consider an electric car as being practical for my requirements at the moment.. Sorry Stephen I know you are passionate about your's but that is my view at present..

ETA I recently read that if everyone in the UK switched to EV then the National Grid as it stands would struggle to cope

Hmm...that's the beauty of this forum Brian, different views, all valid, and I agree with some of the above - and I'm passionate about all of my cars, however they're powered, I just think that internal combustion transport is on it's way out, quicker than most people thought/think.

I quite like the sound of my V8 (though, as I've pointed out before, from a psychological perspective, I think that's because I associate it with the pleasure of speed, movement, and driving a good car generally. I now get similar - though not the same - pleasant mental responses from the motor whine in my Tesla - no, really, I do, though not initially).

I'm also not sure what "real world" or "usable" or "practical" mean? It's much more practical for me to travel 5 yards to plug in my Tesla, than to get in my S8, defrost it, drive it to a petrol station, find my credit card, wait in the queue, get wet, drive back again, etc, etc...and I'm only slightly exaggerating for effect: the point being that - for me and most others who've taken the plunge, - an EV is more usable and practical. It's also interesting that "range anxiety" gets mentioned far less these days, either on car fora or in the press, so that "perceived" issue seems to be fading.

As far as the "if everybody switched" storyline goes, well, just watch this and see if you still think that's an issue: https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4

PS - when are we doing that NC500 together?

[briang9]

You probably need to watch TGT test I mentioned to have an opinion on these terms TBH, happy to do NC500 with you anytime..just let me know when you have a long enough extension lead

and James kinda admits that range anxiety made him miss Roger Daltry and Wilko Johnson, that's unforgiveable

[Simonbartlett]

Originally Posted by briang9

You probably need to watch TGT test I mentioned to have an opinion on these terms TBH, happy to do NC500 with you anytime..just let me know when you have a long enough extension lead

and James kinda admits that range anxiety made him miss Roger Daltry and Wilko Johnson, that's unforgiveable

I'm sure a tesla would of done the grand tour test without recharge, it may of been a different outcome.

[Architex_mA8tey]

Originally Posted by briang9

You probably need to watch TGT test I mentioned to have an opinion on these terms TBH, happy to do NC500 with you anytime..just let me know when you have a long enough extension lead

and James kinda admits that range anxiety made him miss Roger Daltry and Wilko Johnson, that's unforgiveable

I'll come on the NC500 too!

[M-A8]

You cant beat the smell of petrol when refuelling, it's fantastic !!!
Then the thrill of possible massive explosion if you use naked flame while doing, all the risk and danger.
What thrill or pleasure do you get when plugging a car to electricity? It's like plugging a hoover every couple of days around the house, plug and electrical socket relationship never got me excited.

They are good cars tho
I just prefer as little MPGs as possible, sound, smell, combustion and everything about any petrol vehicle or even device such as petrol jetwash or petrol leaf blower

How funny, I've got NC500 website open for the past couple of weeks.

[HPsauce]

Originally Posted by M-A8

It's like plugging a hoover every couple of days around the house, plug and electrical socket relationship never got me excited.

We don't do that, our vacuum cleaner is rechargeable so I just retrieve if from its holder and use it.
But not a realistic comparison as we don't take it with us when travelling........