Crypto currency mining

[moltuae]

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Can't say i like bitmain pushing bitcoin purchases as buying bitcoin doesn't seem particularly easy atm and the price of them is sky high too (though plenty of growth potential still).

It's probably a lot easier to buy Bitcoin than you think. I haven't directly purchased BTC for several months (I'm increasing my holdings mainly through mining and trading altcoins now) but in the past I've always used the UK-based Bittylicious to buy BTC (or ETH). You simply enter the amount you want to buy and one of your Bitcoin addresses, then you'll be prompted with the information you need to make an instant bank transfer. Once the payment is acknowledged and received, you'll usually receive your BTC a few minutes later.

For a quick and easy PC-based wallet, try Electrum. There are better ways to secure larger amounts of BTC, but Electrum is a good one to get started. Have a play with Electrum and post one of your addresses. I'll send you a couple of quid's worth so that you can see how it works.

One common misconception is that it is necessary to buy whole Bitcoins. I've heard people state that Bitcoin is too expensive for them to afford to buy now. The smallest Bitcoin division is called a Satoshi (often abbreviated to Sats). One Bitcoin is equal to 100 million Sats. You could (in theory) buy as little as 1 Sat, though in practice the present transaction fees would make such a small trade prohibitively expensive. You could though, for example, buy a relatively small amount like 0.05 BTC (= 50mBTC or 5 mil Sats), which is a little over £200 worth at today's price.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Have a feeling that things are on the rise and will continue to rise. Who know's if Bitcoin will be THE currency though. Just looking at net trends, I recall when Altavista or AskJeves were the got to search engines but you'd be daft to use anything but google now, same with social media with Livejournal and Myspace with facebook dominating these days. However lots of people have gotten pretty wealthy from all of those over time and i'm guessing at some point some form of consolidation will take place and holding a few cryptocurencies could really pay off.

Indeed, Bitcoin may not be the one that ultimately succeeds in mass adoption and it's certainly worth keeping a diverse portfolio of a number of different cryptocurrencies and keeping a close eye on developments. I think it's inaccurate to compare it to to Altavista, Myspace, etc though. Bitcoin creates a network that is "the internet of money"; its use as currency is just one application. It's probably fairer to compare it the 'Internet Protocol Suite' (eg TCP/IP). Like those standards, it forms a network and foundation for applications, which can use it to develop and evolve. Despite the age of the internet network protocols, most of the early ones are still used today (hell, we're still using IPv4, even though IPv6 was set to replace it about 20 years ago when we began running out of IPv4 addresses). Like-wise, I suspect we'll see Bitcoin continue to exist and evolve for a long time, working along-side (rather than competing with) other cryptocurrencies.

[ulfilias]

Originally Posted by moltuae

It's probably a lot easier to buy Bitcoin than you think. I haven't directly purchased BTC for several months (I'm increasing my holdings mainly through mining and trading altcoins now) but in the past I've always used the UK-based Bittylicious to buy BTC (or ETH). You simply enter the amount you want to buy and one of your Bitcoin addresses, then you'll be prompted with the information you need to make an instant bank transfer. Once the payment is acknowledged and received, you'll usually receive your BTC a few minutes later.

Oh i got that BTC are curently a little large and that they segment down and that you can buy parts. Yet to play with that. Interestingly i've got a Revolut app on my mobile that's great for free international bank transfers, don't think they've got into bitcoins yet, but can see them doing it in the future. Origionally got for travelling, but they've locked free cash atm withdrawls down to £250 recently! Still saved me a fortune buying european festival tickets and buying a projector from ireland in euros!

For a quick and easy PC-based wallet, try Electrum. There are better ways to secure larger amounts of BTC, but Electrum is a good one to get started. Have a play with Electrum and post one of your addresses. I'll send you a couple of quid's worth so that you can see how it works.

Downloaded that last night. Just watched a youtube vid on setting it up and now know the odd collection of letters is an address, which I pm'd as i'm not sure about the wiseness of posting adddresses on a public forum or if i'd be susceptable to random acts of kindness

I also added the app on my phone, but unsure if it's the same wallet as I added extra words in the app (option) and the phone one didn't seem to have that. However learning curve!

Indeed, Bitcoin may not be the one that ultimately succeeds in mass adoption and it's certainly worth keeping a diverse portfolio of a number of different cryptocurrencies and keeping a close eye on developments. I think it's inaccurate to compare it to to Altavista, Myspace, etc though. Bitcoin creates a network that is "the internet of money"; its use as currency is just one application. It's probably fairer to compare it the 'Internet Protocol Suite' (eg TCP/IP). Like those standards, it forms a network and foundation for applications, which can use it to develop and evolve. Despite the age of the internet network protocols, most of the early ones are still used today (hell, we're still using IPv4, even though IPv6 was set to replace it about 20 years ago when we began running out of IPv4 addresses). Like-wise, I suspect we'll see Bitcoin continue to exist and evolve for a long time, working along-side (rather than competing with) other cryptocurrencies.

I was just using well known net progressions rather than a direct comparison (i'm just learning, so my analogise are ropey)
I also get that it's a decentralised currency, so I can't see how any buyouts could happen....Though it's still a little like shares in a company, in my head at least!

I'm looking at hardware at the moment and getting something fair in the UK for bitcoin seems tricky and a high investment to start with (all my PC tech is somewhat old and i'm not a PC gamer). However Scrypt and Litecoin seems a much lower buy in. Those LS3+ look nice, but the whole from China, Waiting, buying in BTC, high price and CUSTOMS is a big initial step (Though there's one+psu on Ebay in the Netherlands for ~£2600).
However there's some Litecoin Gridseed miner 5.2MH/S in France on ebay round the £175. It's about a 100th of the speed but also a 20th of the cost
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Litecoin-G...MAAOSwG2tZ585s

It looks like a fair toe dabble?

Lee

[ainarssems]

And 1/5th of power consumption.

It will generate about £6/month and cost £10/month in electricity to run. Or in other words if you wanted to achieve the same rate as L3+ using several Gridseeds you would need to spend £17k to buy them and spend more than £1k per month in electricity

[ulfilias]

OK....That sounds a bust. Shame as i'd happily buy and play with something like that to get me started!

Any suggestions, Ideally EU based?

[moltuae]

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Interestingly i've got a Revolut app on my mobile that's great for free international bank transfers, don't think they've got into bitcoins yet

You don't need to be able to send international payments to buy BTC (well, not from Bittylicious anyway). You just need to be able to send instant bank transfers (aka 'Faster Payments'). Once you commit to purchase on their site, you're given the bank account details of a UK seller to send the payment to.

In fact, cryptocurrencies are set to make traditional methods of sending international payments obsolete, which can have costly fees and take days/weeks. Cryptocurrency payments are borderless, virtually instant and the fees (if any) are usually comparatively small.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

Just watched a youtube vid on setting it up and now know the odd collection of letters is an address, which I pm'd as i'm not sure about the wiseness of posting adddresses on a public forum or if i'd be susceptable to random acts of kindness

I've replied to your PM and sent you a little BTC to play with

Actually it's quite common (on crypto forums at least) for Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrency) addresses to be posted publicly in users' signatures to receive random acts of kindness from users who found one of their posts/replies helpful.

Just to repeat what I said in the PM (for the benefit of anyone else), it's perfectly safe to post your Bitcoin addresses publicly. Without the private keys, all that anyone can do with one of your addresses is either send you a payment or see what payments you've been sent (on that address only). For privacy reasons, you can use a different address for every payment you request.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

I also added the app on my phone, but unsure if it's the same wallet as I added extra words in the app (option) and the phone one didn't seem to have that. However learning curve!

The string of words is your 'seed'. The seed is used by 'Deterministic Wallets' such as Electum to generate your unique private keys (which you won't usually see, unless you specifically request the wallet software to display/export them). The private keys are in turn used to generate as many public addresses as you require and it is the mathematical (or rather, cryptographical) relationship between them that allows the wallet software to use your private keys to prove ownership of the public addresses and therefore request any necessary additions to the blockchain that enable funds to be transferred.

One advantage of using a deterministic wallet is that you only need your seed to recover your wallet, which can of course be a disadvantage too if you don't keep your seed safe. As long as you use the exact same seed, you can use Electrum to access the same funds/addresses on many different devices. For mobile devices Electrum is a bit clunky though. It works but there are better mobile wallets such as Mycelium or Jaxx. For better security it's best to only store smaller amounts on mobile devices though (perhaps no more than you would keep in cash in a physical wallet) and store larger amounts elsewhere, preferably using a dedicated (and normally offline) computer or hardware wallet.

Originally Posted by ulfilias

I'm looking at hardware at the moment and getting something fair in the UK for bitcoin seems tricky and a high investment to start with (all my PC tech is somewhat old and i'm not a PC gamer). However Scrypt and Litecoin seems a much lower buy in. Those LS3+ look nice, but the whole from China, Waiting, buying in BTC, high price and CUSTOMS is a big initial step (Though there's one+psu on Ebay in the Netherlands for ~£2600).
However there's some Litecoin Gridseed miner 5.2MH/S in France on ebay round the £175. It's about a 100th of the speed but also a 20th of the cost
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Litecoin-G...MAAOSwG2tZ585s

It looks like a fair toe dabble?

If you're considering getting started in mining, I think it's better to start small. Just grab a profitable graphics card, install NiceHash, enter one of your BTC addresses and start mining. You won't make any huge profits but you'll get a feel for it with minimal risk. If you decide mining is not for you, there's a good chance you''l be able to sell any graphics cards you bought for an amount similar to what you paid for them.

Mining can be fun and worthwhile but, depending on your situation, it can sometimes make more sense to simply invest in cryptocurrencies. For me, mining makes sense for a number of reasons: I can claim some of the equipment costs as business stock/expenses, I can make use of the heat generated and I (partly) have access to free electricity at my customer's premises (with their consent of course!).

[ulfilias]

Originally Posted by moltuae

You don't need to be able to send international payments to buy BTC (well, not from Bittylicious anyway). You just need to be able to send instant bank transfers (aka 'Faster Payments'). Once you commit to purchase on their site, you're given the bank account details of a UK seller to send the payment to.

Just bought a small amount 0.01 BTC to check and see how it all works. It's pending but looks good. I wonder what's that in pizza percentages

I was more mentioning Revolut as it's useful if you do need international bank payments etc!

If you're considering getting started in mining, I think it's better to start small. Just grab a profitable graphics card, install NiceHash, enter one of your BTC addresses and start mining. You won't make any huge profits but you'll get a feel for it with minimal risk. If you decide mining is not for you, there's a good chance you''l be able to sell any graphics cards you bought for an amount similar to what you paid for them.

If I had a PC that I could install something in, it would help. The work PC is an old Core2 duo and the last time I really played with PC hardware at home it was for home cinema stuff and that's probably way out of date. I use a HP micro server as a media unit with a custom linux distro which is probably my newest thing besides my laptop and they're not really recomended!
Mobile devices do most my tech needs these days!

Mining can be fun and worthwhile but, depending on your situation, it can sometimes make more sense to simply invest in cryptocurrencies. For me, mining makes sense for a number of reasons: I can claim some of the equipment costs as business stock/expenses, I can make use of the heat generated and I (partly) have access to free electricity at my customer's premises (with their consent of course!).

I do in that sense have an office i could put something in, getting close to winter and this place could use some heating

[ainarssems]

If I had a PC that I could install something in, it would help. The work PC is an old Core2 duo and the last time I really played with PC hardware at home it was for home cinema stuff and that's probably way out of date. I use a HP micro server as a media unit with a custom linux distro which is probably my newest thing besides my laptop and they're not really recomended

Pretty much any PC will do if it has 1 or even better more PCI-e slots, space and enough power supply. Newer motherboard/CPU/RAM will mean less power consumption but the old still work fine and does not affect income. For example my old motherboard with the rest of hardware would consume 100W or £8/month before adding any video cards, the modern ones do half of that 50W/£4/month. I am still running 2 video cards off it now but it's not generating much profit, mostly used as testbed, flashing modded BIOSes to video cards ect. But it still does something like £60 income with £32 electricity costs.

I use a HP micro server as a media unit with a custom linux distro which is probably my newest thing besides my laptop and they're not really recomended!

I also have HP Microserver and my plan is to migrate 2 of my GTX 1080Ti to run from it externally but due to other priorities this has been delayed, possibly add a 3rd one later.

I do in that sense have an office i could put something in, getting close to winter and this place could use some heating

GPU's are OK for heating but ASICS are way to much noisy to use them directly.