Replacing std speakers, not bose, to better ones?

[tc4332]

Originally Posted by MikkiJayne

Plus you don't stand with your back to the stage at a gig

I do

But then I spend a lot of time in the wings backstage.

[NightOwl]

Quick update.

The subwoofer mentioned in the previous post is out of stock and out of production. So I've ordered another one: JBL Club WS-1200

[NightOwl]

I have a question. Will be adding an amp for the subwoofer and was wondering how to connect the power. Directly to the battery or will the battery management system be confused? Is it a way to connect so the battery management system will recognize and accept the extra current drawn by the amp? Tried to do some search, but its limited to find someone who actually has added an amp, and even more about how its done.

[NightOwl]

I'm not much of a person who documents every move with photos, so when I'm doing any projects, I hardly remember to take any photos before everything is done, and then it's mostly too late. This time i tried a bit harder to take some along the way, but this will not be a step-by-step guide as I think every person should add their own creativity to any project and not just copying.

I started with the rear doors and reusing the bracket from the BOSE speaker made it very easy, just to pry out the old speaker element and put the new one in the bracket. Even the screw holes fit. The tweeter is located high on the door, and the old one was just to pop out, but needed to use a Dremel a bit to make the hole slightly larger, then it was just to slide the new tweeter in and secure it with a bit of hot glue. Attached the crossover just over the woofer and connected all the cables. Yes, it was as easy as it sound here.

Photo of the front and rear of the speaker in the bracket.





And the tweeter without the cover.



The front doors and dash was a bit more time consuming, although not difficult. Also there I was reusing the bracket from the BOSE speaker, but they are very different from those in the rear, so some creativity was needed to make it fit. First off, the mounting flanges on the BOSE speaker are located almost at the bottom of the speaker and with a slightly larger diameter than the standard 6,5", meaning the hole is too big. For this I made a ring out of waterproof plywood to get the correct hole and position for the new speaker.

A couple of photos from the front door speaker front and rear.





As we can see, I needed to cut away the "back cover" to make room for the magnet. After the photo was taken I glued on a piece of plastic to act like an umbrella to prevent water to fall directly on the magnet (make sure its not too deep for the available room in the door). Also the pieces for the woofer crossover was glued on the inside of the black plastic with hot glue.

For the dash speaker grill, not sure the correct word, pops easily out after removing a couple of screws, and it's also easy to find the center of the tweeter position from the shape on the underside of the grill. Then its just to cut out the correct hole for the flush mounted tweeter and connect it all before assembling.

A photo of the flush mounted tweeter.



Everything worked at first try and during the test drive the sound was quite okey, but after some songs it was clear that the tweeter was a bit too loud. I tried to adjust the treble a few steps down in the head unit, but still didn't feel right. Back to the garage and pull out the crossover for the tweeters and flick the switch to -3dB and a new test drive. Now it felt so much better with nice balance between the woofer and tweeter. Me and my wife had a drive in the evening and she said the sound was much more 3-dimensional and she heard details in the music she hadn't heard in the car before, and I have to agree, the sound is so much stress-free and calm. It's like the speakers are ready for anything, you can throw complex music at them and they handle it as the most obvious thing.

It was a massive upgrade from the std. speakers to the BOSE speakers, but I dare say it's almost the same step up from the BOSE to the Focal speakers. In fact it's a bit better than I expected as I didn't believe the std amplifier would deliver at this level. But this only makes me think it can even be better with a better amp.

I have to mention the level of difficulty and it probably depend if you have std or BOSE sound system.
Although I have never tried, I think it would be slightly more difficult coming from std sound system, as you would need to fabricate or buy rings to get the speaker in the right position and also find a solution for the rubber sealing towards the door panel. From this I would say the difficulty level would be 5 out of 10.

Coming from BOSE speakers it's much easier, at least in the rear, and I would say the difficulty level to be 4 out of 10. In both cases you would need some tools and some materials, but it's more time consuming than difficult.

One thing to mention coming from original BOSE system, is that the tweeter doesn't have a crossover (mentioned earlier in the thread), and that makes me think it could be a crossover under the dash where the cables split to the door and up to the dash. Other possibility is that the woofer and the tweeter has separated channels from the amp and the crossover is done there, but that is less likely. I used a LCH-meter to measure all cables from the woofer and tweeter in my non-BOSE wire harness and couldn't read anything than just the cables. But this is something I would take into consideration upgrading from a original BOSE system.

In the next days I will dive into replacing the subwoofer and adding an amp for the sub.

A question in the end, how much did the BOSE option cost ordering a new car? And how much for the B&O option?

[MikkiJayne]

Good result I'm trying to decide whether to go with Focal or JL in my current project.

[IT]

Originally Posted by NightOwl

A question in the end, how much did the BOSE option cost ordering a new car? And how much for the B&O option?

[NightOwl]

Thanks for the last comments above!

How to take out the parcel shelf seems to be a well kept secret. I took out the back seat and unscrewed everything I could see from above and in the trunk, even removed some of the interior pieces around the small triangular window, but still it was completely stuck. I've managed though to pry open a crack to take out the original tiny 8" subwoofer. Then it was quickly obvious that I couldn't reuse the original or BOSE bracket for my JBL 12", so I cut a double piece of plywood, in total 30mm, that I was able to bolt into the car and attach the JBL into.



Connected the cables and turned on the music and huh?. Honestly, if I didn't know what I've done, I wouldn't hear any difference! What?! How could this tiny 8", that looked more like mid/high driver if it wasn't for the actual size, perform like the 12" JBL?! Hm, I noticed that both the std and BOSE subs was firing downwards, could it be phase problem? Switched the cables and listened again. Still no difference! Did it need to be broken in? Scratched some gray hairs while wondering how could it be this massive upgrade with the doors/dash speakers and not the subwoofer...................????????

I know it's not ideal to mount a subwoofer in "free air" like in a parcel shelf or even towards the backseats, but this was unexpected. Was this as good as it could be in so-called "free air" installation? Did I need a dedicated box to get it better? Questions buzzed around in my head.

Half expecting that I needed to build a box for the sub, I decided to connect the amplifier mentioned earlier in the thread, that was planed to be used together with the sub first. Before I connected the amp, I noticed that everything was set to lowest from factory, so no loud sounds was expected when I turned on the music. Earlier I've set the sub level in the head unit to max to even get any decent response from the sub and now it was alive and kicking back there! Even at the sensitivity level in the amp set to minimum, the sub came to live as I've set the level in the head unit so high. Adjusted the level in the head unit back to normal and less than quarter of a turn up on the amp to compensate slightly, the output from the sub was more balanced with the rest. The I saw, as this is a dedicated subwoofer amp, that the LPF was set to minimum too (50 Hz)! Means it only let through frequencies lower than 50 Hz,and still it was kicking good! Adjusted the nob to about 80-90 Hz and lowered the level a bit more and now it blends quite good. Still lack a bit of definition on the bass as I can't hear the tones moving up and down from a bass guitar or other instruments with deeper tones. I'm pretty sure this would be much better with a dedicated box.

I like surprises, because then I can learn something, and this was completely unexpected! The thing about adding an amp to the subwoofer was initially a test to see if the new amp triggered the surveillance police in the car and shut down the music and throwing fault codes. It did not trigger anything but the sub to come to life, so in the light of resent knowledge, I've ordered a new four channel amp for the door/dash speakers. For now I'm awaiting how things will sound after this amp is installed before deciding if I go for a dedicated box for the sub too. Maybe I'm in for another surprise?

To be continued...

[NightOwl]

Having a look at the view count and seeing that it's growing steadily is cool, but more comments and questions are still welcome.

Last week I mounted the second amplifier in the car and after some consideration I mounted both of them high on the wall towards the backseat in the trunk. To connect the second amp was just as easy as the first one, first cut the wires going from the original amp and connect them to the new amp, and then connect the wires going to the speakers to the new amp. Finding power is also easy as the battery is located in the rear, and there are several ground screws/bolts in the trunk making it just as easy to find ground as well.

But how does it sound? Well, from the previous post it's obvious that I wasn't too happy with bass even after adding the first amp. Now, after installation of the second amp, it's clear that there need to be somewhat a balance in the build and not just do it half way. With the original amplifier the sound was quite good at low volumes, also with the Focal speakers, but immediately when trying to turn up the volume, the sound stage collapses and the sound get distorted and compressed. This doesn't change much with just adding the JBL sub and the first Helix amp, but now after the installation of the second Helix amp, the pieces are starting to fall into place. The sound at low volume is very good, and it keeps it this way when turning up the volume. Even the sub that I wasn't too happy with, now sound much better as the level of all components are more equally matched.

My wife and I had a drive today and she said that the sound reminded her of the sound we have in the living room, and there we have Klipsch RF7 MkIII with two 18" subwoofers powered with Wired4Sound and Hypex amps. And I have to agree, the sound in the car now is very tight with a great sound stage and stress free at all volumes like it should be in an A8. Even the sub now plays so good that the idea of making a box is put far back on the shelf.

The price of this modification adds up to be about 50% higher than the BOSE option you could chose ordering a new car about 15 years ago, taking the inflation into account I guess it will be more or less the same. Haven't heard a original BOSE system in an A8 apart from the speakers I replaced earlier, I'm still convinced that this build sounds way much better than a complete BOSE system. Never heard a B&O system either, so can't comment on that.

To summarize on this project. This project was never done to show off, only to make the music sound better, so I'm quite happy with the result. The finish build is hardly visible from the outside or the inside of the car. The only visible thing is the flush mounted tweeters on top of the dash. In the trunk the amps are mounted so high on the wall towards the backseat that they should never be in the way and the "bottom" of the subwoofer hardly sticks down in the trunk too, but that would differ with another sub. The price is not to be ignored, but in my honest opinion the std no-name sound system should never have been allowed into an A8. I understand that the car need to meet a price point, but the sound from the std sound system is not worthy of a car of the class. Now, after doing this I think the sound is adequate for the car. Not that the sound can't be better, but I think we then quickly start moving into the land of diminishing return, although it would be fun to try out the Ultima or Utopia speakers with their renowned Beryllium tweeter from Focal parred with a multi channel DSP and some amps at the same level as the speakers. Then we would quickly enter the price of the B&O option.

In a couple of days I will write about the last piece in this project, sound dampening the doors.