The VW scandal. How far does it go?

[snapdragon]

I don't see it as fraud. There is a strict testing regime and you are writing software - why would you not write it to do as well as possible in the parameters required of the test? What about hybrids that use battery for the duration of the test and then in the real world would start the engine to power the car and a generator? I don't see much difference it's just another form of deferral..

[tintin]

Originally Posted by snapdragon

I don't see it as fraud. There is a strict testing regime and you are writing software - why would you not write it to do as well as possible in the parameters required of the test? What about hybrids that use battery for the duration of the test and then in the real world woul start the engine to power the car and a generator? I don't see much difference it's just another form of deferral..

I think the point is that what they did was specifically - and knowingly - intended to give EPA test results that couldn't be replicated for real.

[Adrian E]

Defeat devices/strategies are explicitly banned in USA and European emission standards. What the vw software does is recognise it's on test in a lab and behave impeccably with exhaust aftertreatment working as it should. This involves a different map to that used in the real world, which cannot work in the real world. They're monitoring if the steering is turning, vehicle has been soaked at a set temperature for a minimum period, if all 4 wheels are rotating etc. For the adblue equipped vehicles it appears the dosing strategy is reduced to almost zero due to the size of the tank and not wanting customers to continually be refilling it (USA customers hate doing maintenance or visiting garages except for fuel)

[tintin]

…from the Beeb @ about 5pm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34328689

Highlights are:
11 million Vehicles affected worldwide
€6.5bn Set aside by VW
$18bn Potential fines

So potentially quite big - and a bit of a cultural shock for the Germans.

[tonupkid]

If its been going on in Europe, do the falsely achieved low emission results affect the UK tax bands on the dodgy cars? If so maybe the UK government could claim to have been defrauded of tax.
Then HM C&E could perhaps be chasing VAG, or the end users and thus the end users going after VAG.
What a totally avoidable sh1t storm they've created for themselves.

Hubris. It'll be entertaining watching this one unfold

[David's8]

Originally Posted by tonupkid

If its been going on in Europe, do the falsely achieved low emission results affect the UK tax bands on the dodgy cars? If so maybe the UK government could claim to have been defrauded of tax.
Then HM C&E could perhaps be chasing VAG, or the end users and thus the end users going after VAG.
What a totally avoidable sh1t storm they've created for themselves.

Hubris. It'll be entertaining watching this one unfold

That was a thought which I had. I was at a garage the other day and the salesman had a 2 ltr diesel (a Ford as it happens) on which he said he paid 0£ tax 'cos of the low emissions! I must admit I was staggered. I am sure that VW are not alone.

[briang9]

I take it that this software must also "kick in" when the USA equivalent of an MOT emissions test is carried out during ownership of the car?

[tintin]

But interestingly, Audi's is significantly less damaged by dieselgate

http://electrek.co/2016/06/08/tesla-...lue-4-billion/

[briang9]

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01/...iesel-scandal/

[tintin]

This is a shocking indictment and admission, from an organisation (VAG, not VW) riven by cheats, liars and frauds - though they're not alone, they just got caught.

The only reason they are still in business is because tens of thousands of jobs depend on their survival. In a moral world, all of those who've openly admitted guilt would be in jail, for a long time.