WITW - Ricky's van attack

[89forever]

you must always inspect this area and change the pulley as a matter of course if in doubt... the pulley is cheaper than a wrecked engine...

i speak from years of inline 5 experience and too many destroyed engines sadly.... i learned the hard way... the toothed belt version of the V8 shares a similar pulley arrangement.

[The_Laird]

I wonder if we will ever see a WITW where MJ strips it down to find everything has been done properly before it arrived in her workshop?

I’ve said before that I’ve twice been charged by different ‘Audi Independents’ for Audi parts for a car belt change, to discover at the next change that non-Audi parts had been used.

And I once paid for an indy to my tracking yo find that when I picked the car up that the steering wheel was heck of an angle - they’d taken it around the corner to Kwik Fit as their machine was broken!

Goodness knows what else that I don’t know about. Thank goodness my car’s had a visit to The Doctor.

[tintin]

"The new seal was fitted with the special tool I made for the last engine"

How many "special tools" do you have?

[MikkiJayne]

There's a drawer in the toolbox just for special tools Mostly home made replicas of the factory items, although I do have a few manufactured ones too, mostly for engine timing.

[spannerrash]

"you MUST not torque up using the belt method, you are putting the full force of the torque against the woodruff key on the pulley which is only a cast piece, you will sheer this and destroy your engine.... the workshop manual and how MJ does it is correct.
The factory way of holding the crank whether V8, V6 or inline 5 are the only way to do the belts..."

I understand what you are saying here but I don't think it is so streight forward." Putting the full force on the key" assumes thet the shoulder of the bolt is in contact with the end of the crank. This therefore would mean that any further turning force is trying to turn the crank and (as you say) if the pulley is held by the belt, risks the key shearing off.

If the shoulder of the bolt though is resting on the front face of pulley, is not the inverse true? whereby holding the pulley prevents the turning force from trying to turn the pulley as the bolt bites into the aluminium.

If the bolt bites into the aluminium pulley face whilst the crank is locked, could this not result in the same problem? The bolt will try to turn the pulley.

There is also the washer on the bolt to consider which should help prevent this.

I've also heard stories of the pulley key shearing even when using a crank pin.

I will use the pin in the future if that is what the book says and MJ recomends but I don't think that either way is bullet proof.

[MikkiJayne]

Originally Posted by spannerrash

If the bolt bites into the aluminium pulley face whilst the crank is locked, could this not result in the same problem? The bolt will try to turn the pulley.

There is also the washer on the bolt to consider which should help prevent this.

I've also heard stories of the pulley key shearing even when using a crank pin.

I will use the pin in the future if that is what the book says and MJ recomends but I don't think that either way is bullet proof.

A couple of observations:

The pulley is steel.

The new bolt has a waxy substance between the bolt head and the washer. When its being torqued, the washer stops turning as it contacts the pulley and the waxy stuff squishes out as the bolt turns. I suspect this is by design to not put a rotational force on the pulley.

[89forever]

Originally Posted by spannerrash

"you MUST not torque up using the belt method, you are putting the full force of the torque against the woodruff key on the pulley which is only a cast piece, you will sheer this and destroy your engine.... the workshop manual and how MJ does it is correct.
The factory way of holding the crank whether V8, V6 or inline 5 are the only way to do the belts..."

I understand what you are saying here but I don't think it is so streight forward." Putting the full force on the key" assumes thet the shoulder of the bolt is in contact with the end of the crank. This therefore would mean that any further turning force is trying to turn the crank and (as you say) if the pulley is held by the belt, risks the key shearing off.

If the shoulder of the bolt though is resting on the front face of pulley, is not the inverse true? whereby holding the pulley prevents the turning force from trying to turn the pulley as the bolt bites into the aluminium.

If the bolt bites into the aluminium pulley face whilst the crank is locked, could this not result in the same problem? The bolt will try to turn the pulley.

There is also the washer on the bolt to consider which should help prevent this.

I've also heard stories of the pulley key shearing even when using a crank pin.

I will use the pin in the future if that is what the book says and MJ recomends but I don't think that either way is bullet proof.

With not wanting to degenerate this thread all I’ll add is that any manufacturer spends literally millions on developing a car and it’s workshop procedures....

Deviate from that at your peril on critical items as cam belt replacement

how many times have you seen specialists using tipex to mark cam locations only for the cam timing to be out as they’ve not used the correct cam locking tools???

[spannerrash]

I made no reference at all to camshaft timing and completely agree that short cuts with this procedure and not using the correct tools is simply asking for trouble.

As for manufacture spending millions on research and development, of course they do, and yet they still get it wrong sometimes.

I have already conceded that in the future I will use the crank pin to hold the crank. This is not because the manual says so but because it has been tried and tested by someone with much more experience of working on these cars then me (MJ).

That surely is the point of this forum. Not degenerative by any means. As long as we are polite than we all benefit from the exchange of ideas and learn from these exchanges.

[steamship]

Originally Posted by The_Laird

I wonder if we will ever see a WITW where MJ strips it down to find everything has been done properly before it arrived in her workshop?

Only if it's one of her former patients.

[S81]

I recently replaced front crank seal on d3 and I initially reused the bolts and torqued them without difficulty but when I went to do the 2 no 90° turns i only got about 60° on the ist turn and stopped as I was concerned that they would ring off ( seriously tight) I then ordered a set of new bolts which I torqued and did the 2 90° without concerned ,i had thought it was down to the originals being stressed ,i wonder now if they were waxed